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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by B2Chica on January 28, 2005, at 12:29:46
In reply to I think I might have quit therapy, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 11:11:54
Please (((((((Dinah))))))))
let us know if you are ok.
b2c.
Posted by mair on January 28, 2005, at 12:35:48
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2005, at 11:48:49
Since you haven't said anything here lately which would indicate this was in the offing, I'm assuming it was a somewhat rash decision, easily reconsidered. But something pretty big must have prompted this - something he must have done to upset you terribly. Please fill us in when you can. Does this have anything to do with wanting more therapy than he might be willing to give?
In the meantime, of course we're all thinking about you.
Mair
Posted by partlycloudy on January 28, 2005, at 12:46:01
In reply to I think I might have quit therapy, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 11:11:54
Posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2005, at 12:49:27
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2005, at 11:48:49
Dinah,Oh dear. We're worried. Hope you feel like posting a little bit soon. please...? HUGE HUGS {{{{{{10der}}}}
Posted by rubenstein on January 28, 2005, at 13:04:00
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2005, at 12:49:27
I am so sorry
I am thinking of you
rubenstein
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 28, 2005, at 14:54:01
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by 10derHeart on January 28, 2005, at 12:49:27
Posted by antigua on January 28, 2005, at 15:02:41
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by rubenstein on January 28, 2005, at 13:04:00
We're all getting even more worried about you!! Please let us know how we can help just as soon as you are able.
antigua
Posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 15:38:46
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by antigua on January 28, 2005, at 15:02:41
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 16:00:25
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))) (nm), posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 15:38:46
I called him to find out if he considered it a quitting. Six hours later I haven't heard from him so I'm sort of guessing I did.
I guess it's vaguely possible he's been in an accident or something.
I've been at work, and have to go back there. I'm failing on those deadlines and just came home because I'd forgotten something.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 28, 2005, at 17:58:27
In reply to Well, I suppose I did quit, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 16:00:25
Dinah when you can please fill us in....I am lost...do you not remember quitting or ???? HUGS
> I called him to find out if he considered it a quitting. Six hours later I haven't heard from him so I'm sort of guessing I did.
>
> I guess it's vaguely possible he's been in an accident or something.
>
> I've been at work, and have to go back there. I'm failing on those deadlines and just came home because I'd forgotten something.
Posted by tryingtobewise on January 28, 2005, at 19:25:35
In reply to Well, I suppose I did quit, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 16:00:25
Hi Dinah,
From what I've read, you have a pretty strong relationship with your T. I'm sure he won't "enforce" your quitting if you have changed your mind.
Good luck & hang in there.
Kim
Posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 19:55:12
In reply to Re: Well, I suppose I did quit, posted by tryingtobewise on January 28, 2005, at 19:25:35
I thought Dinah got a new T recently. didn't she? I wish she'd tell us what happened. It sounds so traumatic. I feel bad for Dinah. I hope she's going to be okay. I hope her T shows her the respect of at least giving her a conversation about it.
Posted by mair on January 28, 2005, at 20:32:19
In reply to Re: Well, I suppose I did quit, posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 19:55:12
No Susan, Dinah has been working with this same therapist for about 10 years.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
In reply to Re: Well, I suppose I did quit » Susan47, posted by mair on January 28, 2005, at 20:32:19
In fact he hadn't understood anything I've said for the past two days. He had some vague awareness I was upset with him, but no idea why. He hadn't caught on at all that I had quit, although I thought I had said it in plain English, and he was bewildered why I was wondering if he would take me back.
He wants me to come in and explain it to him.
I got awfully scared a while after I quit, so I suppose I'll go see him.
What happened doesn't matter. What matters is that I don't lose him. I'm such a worm.
Posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 21:19:09
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
Oh lordy Dinah, it sounds like he plain wasn't listening.
Posted by Susan47 on January 28, 2005, at 21:19:35
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
I hope I'm wrong, keep alert, Dinah. Or not, if I'm wrong about that too.
Posted by Shortelise on January 28, 2005, at 21:21:09
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
YOU ARE NOT A WORM. YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING, A VERY HUMAN BEING.
Sorry that I'm yelling. It's just that you really are not a worm.
Hugs ShortE
Posted by mair on January 28, 2005, at 21:39:17
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
Tell him to pay more attention. Although it's always tough for me to know whether my T just doesn't "get" me when she should, or whether she doesn't "get" me because i'm communicating so poorly and think she should be a mind reader.
Dinah - you are not a worm, but you need to have a little more trust in him and a little more regard for yourself to realize that he feels a real sense of commitment to you.
Unless I was misunderstanding her, my T I thought told me once that she would view my quitting as a part of the process and not as an irrevocable decision. I used to worry that if I quit, or took a break she'd never take me back. Of course she also told me yesterday that I should feel free to express any negative sentiment about her I felt including that I wanted to kill her. Righttt - like I'd ever say that even if I felt it.
Please keep us posted and please please be a bit kinder to yourself.
Mair
Posted by fallsfall on January 28, 2005, at 21:49:38
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
Yes, go see him.
Think of it as an educational opportunity for you. You got a chance to "quit" and figure out how you would feel if you did that, without actually upsetting him.
Why is it that you wanted to quit?
I hate it when they know that something is up, but they don't admit that they haven't a clue what we are talking about. How often do they do that (not have a clue what we are talking about)? Do we just think they understand because they say "Uh huh" so convincingly?
But then again, they will sometimes come up with a comment that is *so* dead on. So sometimes they must be understanding...
You can't have forever therapy if you quit, you know...
Love,
Falls.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 29, 2005, at 1:23:24
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
Well phew, I'm glad when you said he hadn't noticed! I mean I would have been horrified if he had heard you quit and just kind of said 'oh well, goodbye then' and let you walk out of there like that and that was that.
But how on earth did he miss that one?
Did he just assume that you weren't going to feel the same way the next day, or didn't he hear you or something?He had 'some vague awareness' you were upset with him. Well Jeepers, guys eh?
Oh Dinah. I am not meaning to make light of this. You scaired the hell out of me given what you have said about ending therapy with this t before. Really. I am so very glad that you are alive and telling us about what is going on.
Maybe your therapy has been so intense recently that he is feeling a bit drained?
I don't know.
I am so glad you are ok.
(Well I know you are not ok but I think you get what I mean).
Posted by Poet on January 29, 2005, at 1:32:10
In reply to He hadn't noticed, posted by Dinah on January 28, 2005, at 20:39:40
Hi Dinah,
You're not a worm. You're not worming your way in or out of a situation.
I think you're right that what happened doesn't matter. Maybe what matters is that he doesn't seem to want to loose you or he wouldn't want you to come in and talk to him.
How he missed that you quit, I don't know, I thought in therapy it was the clients who didn't listen to the therapist.
Let us know if you decide to go talk to him.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2005, at 7:27:46
In reply to Re: He hadn't noticed » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 29, 2005, at 1:32:10
It's that emotional lag time. We both knew that we had disagreed Thursday, but I didn't realize how angry I was until after the session. I think I had taken a nap in the car after session and called him after that to explain why I was angry then dozed some more. When I woke up I felt ok and went to work.
He never called me back about that because I hadn't asked him to call me back and he never calls back unless I ask him to. But apparently he really didn't understand anything I was saying. Yesterday just built up from that, but again I didn't quit until after napping a few minutes in the car. Actually I dozed during session too. I don't seem to be able to stay awake for long at all lately. I thought I was pretty clear about cancelling then, but he missed it entirely.
I guess the root of the problem was that he was laughing at me for something I thought was important. Usually I sort of like it when he laughs at me, but this time it seemed unkind given how strongly I felt.
The worm part was because more and more I'm feeling trapped, angry, and frustrated in my life because my pathological need for stability leaves me with very few real choices.
My therapist said something about my job the other day that sounded like it had promise. But when he repeated it yesterday it was the same old CBT cr*p repackaged. Positive affirmations, negative self talk, stuff like that. I guess he took the effort to not mention those words the other day. It just left me feeling hopeless. And more trapped than ever because a normal person could just walk away from their job and find a new one. And I can't. That's not the only area in my life, but one. My therapist is another.
He probably didn't hear me say I quit because he knows I can't. And the truth is I can't, all I did was scare myself.
That's why I think I'm a spineless mealworm just reacting to what's going on around me and too afraid to move. Perhaps my old shell-less skinless slug writhing in the heat but unable to get off the sidewalk is a better analogy.
Posted by mair on January 29, 2005, at 8:23:32
In reply to My fault I guess, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2005, at 7:27:46
Come on, Dinah, you know the work issue isn't easy. You have a job of convenience; it works for you in lots of ways. It provides you with the flexibility to give more time to your son and the additional income to make sure you can pay for therapy. Problematically, it also continually provides more stress than you can handle and constantly undermines your self esteem. Plus, since it makes you feel like you can't do anything well or quickly enough, and that you're a constant disappointment to the people you work with, it makes it impossible to imagine yourself actually getting another job. When you feel so awful about yourself, how are you supposed to sell your skills to another employer, or hustle jobs as a free-lancer? When you're having such a hard time just getting by, how are you supposed to take on a new responsibility, and attack a new job with any energy? Add to all that, the layer that you're actually very capable doing what you do and you work in a place with high standards where the professionals are viewed as competent. Do you really want to end up at a place where your colleagues wouldn't measure up to your own high standarts? PLUS, you get to deal with the added burden of sometimes feeling that you are merely tolerated because of your father (in my case, my husband).
AND sometimes worst of all, how do you live with the fact that you jeopardize your mental health by staying in such a toxic work environment? I sometimes reason that I must be some slug who's comfortable being depressed and really doesn't want to get well because if I had the true will to get better, I'd just quit my job. Mental Health h*ll is a bad enough place to be, but worst when you think you keep yourself there because you won't quit your job. I often wonder how it will change my life when I am able to leave my job. Will it made as much difference as I think it will? Will I suddenly no longer need therapy because I've been transformed into this totally non-depressed person?
Does any of this sound familiar?
I've often wondered whether I might find the energy to deal with a new job capably if I was in a better environment BUT isn't that a huge risk? Other people I know who left firms to start their own practices claim that being happier made all the difference in the world to their productivity. How can you be sure? What if you quit what you have because it makes you feel awful, and then discover that you've given up the one sinecure you need and have. If I took the same attitude and energy level into a new job that I bring to my current one, it would be a disaster. So then what? How do you replace the income you've lost by quitting job #1 and not being able to handle job #2? It's no small wonder that you feel frustrated and trapped. You are trapped in a way, at least for awhile.
So I know why you feel spineless, but please do acknowledge that for some of us, toxic work environments are a very complicated matter; not easily solved by simply leaving, even if we had the energy to.
Mair (who thinks she's often in the same boat with you)
Posted by Dinah on January 29, 2005, at 9:42:25
In reply to Re: My fault I guess » Dinah, posted by mair on January 29, 2005, at 8:23:32
Ah Mair, you're good for me. I wish the people around me understood the issue at a gut level. My therapist intellectually understands it, but thinks the job is good for me (because it pays his fee perhaps) and stays annoyingly positive about it.
It seems so unAmerican almost to feel trapped. It's pounded into us at such an early age that we have so many choices. I see other people making choices and being happier for it. Our office manager (who had about the same reaction to the job as I do) quit years ago and seems like a whole new person.
My therapist wants me to come up with a list of actions that will help enforce the belief that I am capable at what I do. It really made me want to punch him. I remembered just why I hated CBT so. Right now the only goal I think I have a shot at meeting is to not fall asleep while actually driving. :(
Posted by mair on January 29, 2005, at 10:26:31
In reply to Re: My fault I guess » mair, posted by Dinah on January 29, 2005, at 9:42:25
Maybe the list of actions is not to make you feel better about your current job as much as to make you feel capable enough to find another?
My T knows I'd be better off not working where I am, but she knows it's complicated also and I think we've talked about it enough for her to understand my choices are limited. She also now understands how difficult it is to control my schedule, work flow etc. I'm sure she's disappointed to figure out that there isn't that much she can do for me in this area other than be supportive and try to counter my forays into extreme distortions about my worth and job competency.
I think she's doubly disappointed that it took us years to get me to a place where I could successfully negotiate a raise with my colleagues. And it's produced none of the hoped for benefits. I'm not suffused with good feelings that I finally crossed such a tough hurdle and it hasn't done a thing for my self esteem - if anything it almost places more pressure on me to produce.
Maybe once I pull myself out of my current morass, I'll look at things differently. I'm not quite ready to abandon all hope. {-;
Mair
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