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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
I was in an eatery earlier buying a kebab and while I was waiting for it to be made up, I was watching a mother with her kid. The kid was probably around the starting to walk age (don't know how old that is). Anyway, the mother was stroking the kid's leg. Not in a gooby way, but in a real sweet motherly loving way. You could just see that she loved that kid to pieces.
One of the things I've been working on is understanding that my mother wasn't a toucher. When I was a little baby, there's heaps of touching, but then I guess there would have to be because she'd have to hold my head up and whatnot. But there came a time when basically all the touching stopped. That is the mother I remember.
I know heaps of the theory about touch and attachment and whatnot, but I still don't really understand why you need touch to have the attachment. Even if she didn't want to touch me, she could have shown her love in other ways, eg the way she talked or listened or involved herself in my life or attended to my needs or whatever.
I guess firstly, I'd like to hear if there's anyone who feels they have a strong attachment to a close family member where there is no touch involved at all (and BTW your T's are excluded from this - they are a completely different kettle of fish).
And secondly, I know some of you have kids and it sounds like you are wonderful parents. I was just wondering what touch is like between you and your kids.
I just get confused. My mum's big demonstration of love at my wedding was to lightly touch my elbow. I didn't even get a hug. And I can see that that's not really "normal". But I keep excusing it away - some people aren't touchers, that's how she was raised, etc.
I guess I'm trying to understand how the lack of touch affected me.
Posted by pinkeye on December 7, 2004, at 20:38:02
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
In the culture where I come from, touching is not very common. Especially if the kid is of opposite sex (a son), then the mother doesn't touch the kid beyond a certain age and similarly, fathers don't touch their daughters at all. Also it is very fairly common to have several kids in a family upto 6 or 7 and nobody gets touched - there simply is no time and energy for the parents. But most of the kids turn out to be normal people. Maybe not extra special and extra happy, but atleast to a good extent normal kids.
Posted by daisym on December 7, 2004, at 21:48:47
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
Mother stuff is really hard. My mom isn't touchy either, but she does hug me, usually when I'm leaving. I have a very clear memory of her sitting behind me when I was 8 or 9, brushing the snarls out of my long hair. It was so very painful and she would say, "No tears! It's your own fault, if only...." and then I'd hear how I was too much a tom boy, etc. I wanted short hair so badly. Sometimes I still flinch if she touches my head.
With my own kids, I held them all the time when they were babies. So did my husband. I loved 2am feedings because it was just me and the baby. Now that they are big, they tend to rush up and hug. I try not to flinch if it is a surprise. (another learned response.) They hug their dad too, and he, them. My oldest doesn't like his back rubbed (OK, maybe by his girlfriend) but the younger two do. My youngest needs touch to calm down when he is anxious. He actually has learned finger tapping for himself.
The need for touch to humans is very primal. We've done lots of studies on premature babies and how they thrive on touch therapy. I've experienced very young age states that long to be held by my therapist - just held and soothed. I've told him about this and we've talked about emotional holding. The adult would probably run screaming from the room if he came near me.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 7, 2004, at 22:38:56
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
It's interesting that you brought this up. I remember that I used to always kiss my mom on the lips as a child. At one point (I think I was around 9), I went to kiss her and she turned her check to me. I attempted to kiss her again and she turned the other cheek to me. She never discussed it with me, she just reacted that way. I always felt that I had done something wrong that she didn't want me to kiss her anymore. That's something I would like to talk to her about, but I know she would just say that she doesn't remember. She probably doesn't. I'm sure it wasn't that big of deal to her, but it crushed me.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 7, 2004, at 23:25:57
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
Intresting topic and one my T would be happy I can across..I do know touch is VERY important and more so in the first years of life. I did not get a lot of touch minus some good ones on vacation or if something very bad happened but mostly I was hit and not touched by almost everyone in my family . I did sometimes get read too and sat on dads lap...My T has suggested I read a book called Attachments: why you love, feel and act the way you do by T. Clinton. I haven't read much of it but it does address this topic.
> I was in an eatery earlier buying a kebab and while I was waiting for it to be made up, I was watching a mother with her kid. The kid was probably around the starting to walk age (don't know how old that is). Anyway, the mother was stroking the kid's leg. Not in a gooby way, but in a real sweet motherly loving way. You could just see that she loved that kid to pieces.
>
> One of the things I've been working on is understanding that my mother wasn't a toucher. When I was a little baby, there's heaps of touching, but then I guess there would have to be because she'd have to hold my head up and whatnot. But there came a time when basically all the touching stopped. That is the mother I remember.
>
> I know heaps of the theory about touch and attachment and whatnot, but I still don't really understand why you need touch to have the attachment. Even if she didn't want to touch me, she could have shown her love in other ways, eg the way she talked or listened or involved herself in my life or attended to my needs or whatever.
>
> I guess firstly, I'd like to hear if there's anyone who feels they have a strong attachment to a close family member where there is no touch involved at all (and BTW your T's are excluded from this - they are a completely different kettle of fish).
>
> And secondly, I know some of you have kids and it sounds like you are wonderful parents. I was just wondering what touch is like between you and your kids.
>
> I just get confused. My mum's big demonstration of love at my wedding was to lightly touch my elbow. I didn't even get a hug. And I can see that that's not really "normal". But I keep excusing it away - some people aren't touchers, that's how she was raised, etc.
>
> I guess I'm trying to understand how the lack of touch affected me.
Posted by saw on December 8, 2004, at 0:41:16
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love » littleone, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 7, 2004, at 23:25:57
I have a very physical relationship with my son. (On the days when my depression does not make me totally claustrophobic). We hug and kiss all the time. He strokes my hair, I rub his back. He will come up behind me and throw his arms around my waist and tell me me he loves me. He likes to climb in my lap and put his head against my breast. He likes to "zurbit" my tummy. I massage his head when he has a headache and hold his hand in the car.
We do kiss on the lips and I see no harm in this. We also share eskimo and butterfly kisses.
My son is turning 7 next week.
I will fight to maintain this relationship with him. I have had comments that I am turning my son into a f*g or keeping him tied to my apron strings. I strongly disagree. I feel our open and physically loving relationship is building a solid foundation for him in which to respect and love his own wife one day.
Sabrina
Posted by Daisym on December 8, 2004, at 11:21:02
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by saw on December 8, 2004, at 0:41:16
I was thinking about this thread and the responses. Do the difficulties between Mothers and daughters have life long consequences, as far as touch and emotions go? Or Fathers and sons? We expect mothers, in some ways, to be more touchy feely. So if a dad is, well, great! But if he isn't, does anyone feel deprived?
If you have a daughter and are very physically affectionate, does she pull away of her own accord and learn to set boundaries and respect other people's? I have boys, so I know they pull away, become private, on their own. That doesn't mean I don't still reach out to them, but there are definately things we don't do anymore. Snuggling on my bed while reading has gone away, but we will sit on the couch.
Just wondering. I should add in that I'm struggling with how I feel about my mother right now so this hits a button with me.
Posted by Dinah on December 8, 2004, at 11:39:30
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love » saw, posted by Daisym on December 8, 2004, at 11:21:02
I figure that's going to happen one day. :( That my son will pull away.
I'm rather unconsciously huggy and touchy with my son. I don't really think about it, but I touch him a lot. Like we will be walking along and I'll put an arm around him. Sometimes he kind of pulls away, but then he'll awkwardly reciprocate. I smooth his hair, and touch his arm when he's done something good. I hug him all the time. I don't kiss much. Sometimes on the top of the head. The more active forms of touching, like horseplay, he does with his dad.
My family as adults hardly ever touch and when I initiate it it feels awfully awkward.
I used to sit on Daddy's lap and watch TV. When I got to be a preteen or young teen he started not letting me sit on his lap. My therapist says that was a good responsible thing, but it felt sort of bad to me at the time. Like I had done something wrong. I had some vague realization it had something to do with sex, and it made me feel dirty that my father wouldn't let me sit on his lap anymore.
I can't recall my mother touching me a lot, but I know she sat and held my son for long periods of time when he was very young. I can't imagine it would have been much different for me. So while I'm reasonably sure she touched me a lot when I was little, I don't really remember it, and I don't remember why or when it stopped.
One thing I remember and absolutely do not make my son do is the relative hug. "Go hug Aunt..." was done a lot on my father's side, none on my mother's. And I HATED it.
Posted by Aphrodite on December 8, 2004, at 12:30:02
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
I am very affectionate with my son. Lots of snuggling and hugging. I often wrestle with him too and give him piggy-back rides.
I do not recall being lovingly touched by either parent. It was mostly abusive. All my life I have longed to have my hair stroked and be held -- you know, all those things you're supposed to get as comfort when you are young.
Science tells us now how crucial touch is in human development. I am painfully aware of how much that deprivation has affected me, and how grateful I am that my son won't have that problem.
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 0:54:49
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by Dinah on December 8, 2004, at 11:39:30
You mentioned you used to sit on Daddy's lap. I have just realised (or remembered) that I had absolutely no physical contact with my dad whatsoever. Not so much as a light touch on the elbow. He never even spanked us. (Ok once, but I said boo when he was working with electricity).
I have never given it much thought and wonder if I should start now. I wonder if this lack of contact with my dad resulted in my fiasco of relationships up until now.
Perhaps I'll address it on another thread.
Sabrina
Posted by Smeegle on December 9, 2004, at 13:20:22
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love » Dinah, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 0:54:49
I find this interesting, but from the opposite perspective. I had no abuse from my parents and was raised in a loving, affectionate home. Lots of hugs and cuddling. We still do as adults, just more age appropriate affection. My son is 21 and we are the same way. I feel that touch is very important. There was never a time in my life (as a child) that I did not feel completely and totally loved by both my parents. It was shown both verbally and through their actions. Having said all that, I wonder if that's part of why I have some of the issues I have now. Not that I blame them at all. I wholehearted appreciate the loving nuturing environment I was raised in (even though they divorce when I was 7, that never changed the feelings of love I felt). Often I have felt that it is unreasonable of me to expect the level of touch/affection I grew up with. My husband and his mom are somewhat touchy. His sister is definitely not. I can relate to the comment about the mom stroking the kid's leg. That is something that almost anyone in my family would do without even realizing it. If I felt bad, mom would hold me or stroke my forehead. We always piled up in the den with blankets and pillows and watched tv together. We ALWAYS ate as a family (something I still feel is important today to stay connected with each other). I miss that feeling of love that I grew up with. I long for it with all of my heart. (all of my family lives away in other states so I can't just drop in whenever I need an affection fix).
Smeegs
Posted by Dinah on December 11, 2004, at 0:00:09
In reply to Re: Mother's Touch Mother's Love » Dinah, posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 0:54:49
I wish I remembered it better. I know it's true because I remember him stopping me sitting on his lap, and how I felt, and my thoughts at that time. But I don't recall the times when I *did* sit on his lap. :(
I have a picture though, of me sitting sort of on his lap. Legs splayed out, leaning on him, and looking up at him. I looked comfortable, like it was something I was used to doing.
Dratted memory.
Posted by littleone on December 12, 2004, at 21:13:06
In reply to Mother's Touch Mother's Love, posted by littleone on December 7, 2004, at 20:27:13
Thank you all for your responses. I have tried to reply a few times, but I get too upset. It's all so foriegn to me.
I was at my Aunty's place on the weekend. I had the opportunity to sit back and just watch how she interacts with her kids. And it wasn't just the touching, but also how they talked. H*ll, even just the fact that they did talk. I always thought that *they* were the unusual ones.
I've heard and read about families interacting like you guys describe. But to me it all just sounds like some new pop-psych way to raise your kids. Like in the old days it was very common to give your kids the belt/strap/cane/whatever. These days you'd be hung up to dry if you tried that. I'd always kind of thought the talking/touching thing was the same. That was just how kids were raised back then (by back then, I mean in the 70's/80's. I'm 32. Almost. Ugh.) But you guys describe that sort of stuff happening when you grew up too.
I don't know. Daisy's right. Mother stuff *is* hard. :(
This is the end of the thread.
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