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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 16:38:49
In reply to Re: Sex therapy, posted by Racer on September 9, 2004, at 15:53:17
Thanks Racer. :)
I'll be happy to update in my usual interminable detail. :)
I was clear on the phone that I'm nowhere near wanting advice on pragmatic issues, shall we say. And I'm going to wait to see how it goes before I even mention it to my husband. I have no desire at the moment to do that joint couples stuff. Ick.
I agree with you completely about gender. I wouldn't dream of seeing a male sex therapist. And not because I'm shy. I just think they should stick to male sexual issues. :) In fact, I wonder that this woman therapist does couples sex therapy. It would seem to me that the ideal would be a male/female team doing couples sex therapy. I don't care how much studying someone does. Like they said on Seinfeld, you're bound to be more familiar with the equipment (not excluding the brain) if you own it. But that's just my own humble (yeah, right) opinion, and I'm sure there are many opposite sex sex therapists who help their clients.
I guess I'm second-guessing what my therapist will think because on some level it's true. At some level I find my attachment to him shameful, stupid, and dangerous. And the timing of calling this therapist right after an unsuccessful attempt to reduce therapy frequency is just a bit too convenient for me to ignore in terms of my own possible motivations.
However, my therapist is apparently not nearly as perspicacious as I. He just called and heartily endorsed the idea, saying it was an area that called for specific expertise and he was familiar with the therapist in question and considered that I was in good hands. Silly blind and foolish man. :)
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: Sex therapy » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on September 9, 2004, at 15:14:57
I found this site, in case anyone wants to join me on the sex therapy bandwagon. :)
Posted by pantt on September 9, 2004, at 17:23:38
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
I went to that site and then found this book-it looks like something I might like to read. I haven't even thought about sex in ages-maybe I need to read it
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:33:03
In reply to Re: By the way » Dinah, posted by pantt on September 9, 2004, at 17:23:38
Wow. This is going to be harder than I thought. I got a bit dizzy just reading the questions about sexual dysfunction that the book can help you with. And I answered yes to a heck of a lot of them. :( I guess I could use that book too.
And there's a little voice inside me screaming "Why do you want to make it easier to do THAT??!!!"
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 17:54:47
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
I'm joining you on that bandwagon. Nobody I want to have sex with except myself but I can always imagine I suppose. Maybe that'll make me want it, baby. (That was an attempt at levity, oh well)
Posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:25:58
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
It's a good thing my husband doesn't follow babble or he'd have me leading the parade your bandwagon is in. I blame meds on my lack of interest. It's not meds, it's me. I'm not brave enough for sex therapy. Though I did look at the site and there are a bunch of sex therapists near me. Only one male though. Isn't that interesting? Then again my pdoc has a first name that can be male or female, so I shouldn't make guesses.
Go forth on your quest, Lady Dinah. You are far braver than me.
Poet the Coward
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
In reply to Re: By the way » Dinah, posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:25:58
Sorry, have to do this. Not that I don't agree in theory with what has been said about males/females.
I've had a few on/off again discussions about sex with my therapist. The first time it was very hard
"so do you have orgasms?" BLUSH...
but he was pretty sensitive about it all. Mostly it was about what I was thinking and feeling before, during, and after. Now, remember, I'm opening up huge sa issues so sex has been even harder over the past year for me. (no pun intended.)We talked about giving and receiving and how it feels to be sexually selfish. Now this isn't something I've ever thought about before. Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins. It is a life-pattern, always meet everyone else's needs, and it spills over, even into sex.
Anyway...the times we've talked about stuff aren't usually mechanical (once) but much more about desire, or not, retraumatizing aspects, fantasy, etc. And I've learned tons about myself and the way I view sex. And I thought I was pretty enlightened.
I like Racer's idea of the locker room requirement. Not only for body imagine, but to hear women talk. I've been pretty sheltered, sometimes I think, "people do that?? HOW???!!"
:)
Good Thread.
Posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:42:10
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
I can't talk about sex with my female T or male pdoc. Blushing, stammering and yes or no is about all I can do.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 19:18:10
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
It's not that I have any trouble talking to my therapist. I don't. Not at all. I'm not really shy about sex. And it's not that he's actually insensitive. He's not. But I do get the distinct feeling that he feels sorry for my husband, sexually speaking, and that feels judgemental to me. He doesn't say so, of course. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.
And I'm not sure a man can understand... Oh how to put this... There's no mistaking who's blitzkrieg Germany and who's Poland in sex, you know?
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 19:52:46
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger* » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 19:18:10
I don't know Dinah, I know some awfully agressive women. One of my best friends is ummm, very adventurous! She complains that her husband isn't active enough. And she has all kind of toys, etc. I'm often shocked and often amused. And glad it's not me!
I have learned not to share her stories with my hubby. He looks way to interested. *sigh*
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:04:45
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger*, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 19:52:46
First time I pick up on a "I sure feel sorry for her husband" vibe, i'm outta there. I can get that for free.
But I was referring to the actual logistics. Not adventurousness. :)
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:34:33
In reply to Re: Sex therapy, posted by Racer on September 9, 2004, at 15:53:17
I love the Good Vibrations book. I gave a copy of it to a young woman I know who was just starting to get sexually active. She was amazed that a 200 page book had only about 3 pages on vaginal intercourse ;) I've been with my husband sexually for over 30 years, and we didn't start to have a decent sex life for the last 5 or so, since we started using a vibrator. I'm hard to stimulate, mostly for psych reasons, and a sex toy makes it easier for me in lots of ways. I have talked with my T many times about sex, I think it's easier since I lie on a couch and don't have to look at him. He has helped me tremendously in understanding why sex is so hard for me. I don't like to be touched and I like to be in control, two things that aren't really compatable with a good sex life. Sex feels like submission to me when according to my T it should feel like surrender, a distinction that took me a long time to understand. I think it has helped me at times to have a male perspective. My husband went through a time where he was having problems in the performance department. I of course thought it was because I am not sexually attractive. My T told me that whatever the problem was he was quite sure it was not because I wasn't sexually attractive. That felt good to hear even if I don't really believe it.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:38:12
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
When I read this in your post, the little light bulb over my head clicked on and I had an ah-hah! "Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins." Thank you so much for sharing.. is this a common experience then?
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:41:40
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
>
> We talked about giving and receiving and how it feels to be sexually selfish. Now this isn't something I've ever thought about before. Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins. It is a life-pattern, always meet everyone else's needs, and it spills over, even into sex.
>My T talks about the same thing, but he calls it subject and object. Sometimes you're the subject and sometimes you're the object. I want to be the object but my desire for control makes that really hard, and my husband is would like to the subject more often but his desire to please makes it easier for him to be the object. We have learned to trade off the roles but it's hard sometimes. When we can it makes our sex better..and anything is better than the awful way it used to be. As Daisy says above, it isn't just about sex, it just lops over into the bedroom.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:54:23
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:41:40
Lucy your posts really made me think about sex as surrender. I used to feel that way about sex. I don't know what happened but somewhere in the single years I couldn't do that anymore. When I could, sex was fantastic. I never once surrendered to my last husband, not that I can recall at any rate. Never had an O with him either, unless I was ... imagining something else.
Okay. Now I know why I had sexual feelings for my therapist. It makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe I can think things through a bit now, oh gawd. Nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that he's drop dead gorgeous. God I had such a double whammy. Therapists like him ought to be illegal. Ew ew ew.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist » lucy stone, posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:54:23
I see I have years of sex therapy ahead of me. These issues are the equivilant to a doctoral thesis for a kindergartner. grin.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 21:05:05
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 21:14:46
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
> I see I have years of sex therapy ahead of me. These issues are the equivilant to a doctoral thesis for a kindergartner. grin.
I'm in my 50s and have been with the same guy for over 30 years and we are just now starting to figure it out, largely because of the work I am doing in my analysis. Better late than never, I guess.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:51:49
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 21:14:46
I'm not far behind you. Forties. With same guy for 25+ years, married over ten.
But my problems are so very basic. I couldn't kiss my dates back when I was dating because kissing felt like being smothered. My now husband was the only exception. But years into our relationship that smothering fear came back. Touching is an irritant. Intercourse is painful.
And trying to do anything to make any of it better *feels* like I'm being a facilitator to my own... Oh never mind. But the upshot is that I sabotage any attempts on my part to make things any better.
With that level of dysfunction and that much resistance to change, this latest effort is also doomed to failure and I might as well give up and cancel and save myself the money and stress.
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 22:38:48
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger?*, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:51:49
Don't give up before you get started!
I know that smothered feeling. I float away more than 50% of the time these days and just let it happen. And then I have an emotional melt down later. I tell myself often that it isn't my husband's fault that I don't enjoy sex or that it stirs up such intense memories for me. I'm really trying hard to meet his needs and still protect myself. It is all complicated by my husband's illnesses which makes sex for him much more challenging...you can't "just" do it. Timing is everything.
One of the things my therapist asked me is what do I "like"...what would make it perfect for me? It was an amazing thing to realize that I've never thought about what I like...which, of course, was his whole point.
I'm not a martyr by any stretch. It just is one more thing that stresses an already stressed household. So it would be nice to have more clarity about what my mind and body want.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 9, 2004, at 22:44:56
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger?*, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:51:49
Dinah, please don't give up your courageous quest. One very interesting thing to look into is Flomax (generic tamulosin), It's used for painful intercourse and penetration, though it's not yet very well known for that. It's a safe drug; Dr, Mulhall, at Sloan-Kettering in New York has pioneered the use of it for painful intercourse; you could call him, or ask your doctor to call for you. We discovered it because my husband developed pain with erections after prostate surgery for cancer. He just went into a cascade of negative feelings (it hurts, it's no longer a pleasure, I can't do it any more, I feel so guilty and worthless, etc.). The Flomax took away the pain entirely, and he's been able to slowly rebuild his confidence and ability to experience pleasure. Sex isn't quite as spontaneous or easy after that surgery, but the Flomax (and Viagra as needed) has helped us keep going as sexual partners. I don't know for sure if it can be as effective in women as in men, but I think it can be.
Posted by crushedout on September 9, 2004, at 22:46:15
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger* » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 19:18:10
In *heterosexual* sex, yes, that's true. (Sorry, just always have to point out when people forget about gay sex, which has a completely different dynamic, obviously.)
Posted by tabitha on September 10, 2004, at 0:12:32
In reply to Sex therapy, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 13:15:26
I've just caught up with this thread. How brave of you, Dinah. I hope you'll keep us updated. I'm curious how a sex therapist can help.
Posted by daisym on September 10, 2004, at 0:14:24
In reply to help for painful intercourse » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 9, 2004, at 22:44:56
I have to ask, and of course, you don't have to answer...
Did you find dealing with your husband's sexual difficulties triggering at all? It seems that I take so much of his struggle on myself and it is just so hard to not get freaked about not being able to meet these needs. Even when the performance stuff is medically based.
Of course, I think I have to solve all the world's problems.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 10, 2004, at 0:39:09
In reply to Re: help for painful intercourse » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on September 10, 2004, at 0:14:24
I certainly did find it triggering. Before we got some help, I caught myself thinking *I* was actually the cause of his problems- for not being as young and sexy as I once was, (etc.) It's helped us a lot to have a doctor we can both see and confide in. He's also helped us face the realities of what prostate cancer can do to a man's sexual desire and ability- to lower our expectations some, and, most of all, to enjoy what we still can have together. I think the doctor (a specialist in physically-caused sexual dysfunction) helped most of all. He has had so much experience, and gave us a clear and very supportive message, that, while my husband had been through a serious illness (surgery followed by radiation), all was not lost. Shifting away a bit from performance-oriented sex to a more Tantric kind has also helped take a lot of the pressure off him. I love it because it emphasizes closeness
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