![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by vwoolf on September 9, 2004, at 14:36:31
In reply to I made an appt. My therapist will be livid., posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 14:15:40
Wow. That must have taken courage. Have you been thinking about it for some time, or was it just on the spur of the moment?
Posted by Aphrodite on September 9, 2004, at 15:14:57
In reply to Sex therapy, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 13:15:26
Dinah, Is it just a coincidence that this subject follows your thoughts on emotional infidelity? I'm not trying to be cute; I'm really wondering. Sex is the one thing that separates the relationship we have with our spouses/partners from anyone else. If you are feeling awkward about the emotional disclosures, did that make you want to address the other issue that has more to do with your husband?
Either way, I'm proud of you. Sounds interesting, and I hope you'll post your experience with this. I guess I didn't realize there were actual "sex therapists;" I thought it would just be part of a regular therapist's expertise.
Posted by Racer on September 9, 2004, at 15:53:17
In reply to Sex therapy, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 13:15:26
I know nothing about this subject, so I'll be eager to learn how it turns out. Please update?
As for your T, it seems to me that, if it's strictly goal-specific expertise that you're getting, it really shouldn't impact your bond with him? It's not as if you're seeing someone to discuss your attitudes about men in general -- just getting some expert assistance in how to improve your sexual functioning. This may be my own bias, but I can't imagine a man can offer that to you! (My view of it is pretty simple: the men who would become sex therapists in the first place are probably the same men who would recommend you learn to do whatever their own sexual fantasies consist of. I'm pretty well twisted on the subject of genders, some times.)
For what it's worth, books like the Good Vibrations Guide, and Our Bodies/Our Selves can be very helpful. And I got much more comfortable and adept and all that when I did two things: learned to undress in a gym locker room and bought a vibrator. (Honest: raising my eyes to see what other women *really* looked like helped me more than anything else ever could. I think every adult should be required to spend at least one hour per month in the presence of about a dozen naked members of the same gender, just to improve self image.) The gym helped in a lot of ways, of course, beyond the locker room!
There was also another book, about men's bodies and sex, but I can't remember what it was.
Best luck, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 16:12:01
In reply to Re: I made an appt. My therapist will be livid., posted by vwoolf on September 9, 2004, at 14:36:31
Spur of the moment. I wish she had had an opening today, although I wouldn't have had the cash to go, I suppose. I have precisely four dollars in my checking account aside from my therapy money. So I guess it's good I see her after my next payday. The appt is Wednesday. I'm really afraid that I'll cancel between now and then. That much time is an eternity, potential cancelling wise.
But I suppose the impetus behind doing it at this moment is my upcoming yearly appointment. My ob/gyn was mad at me last year because I hadn't gotten the surgery she suggested the year before that. Surgery with the sole purpose of making sex less painful. My husband isn't crazy about the idea because it's general anaesthesia. I'm not sure insurance would cover it. But the real reason I resist is psychological. I guess I wanted to be able to tell her I was looking into why I was resisting in case she gets annoyed again this year. Silly of me I know. Chances are she won't even see it in the charts since it was two years ago and won't even mention it.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 16:19:26
In reply to Re: Sex therapy » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on September 9, 2004, at 15:14:57
Well, that wasn't the immediate impetus, as I explained above.
I'm not sure about whether or not it's a background reason. It's true that lately my marriage has been in a slight trough. The best description I ever heard of marriages was in the movie "The Four Seasons" with Alan Alda. He says that marriages are like a wave; they have crests and troughs. There are probably tons of reasons. We're both under a fair amount of family and work stress. I have every confidence that our marriage will crest again, and then fall into a trough, and then crest again, for the rest of our days.
But the realization that our marriage could use a little TLC right now is probably an underlying theme in both making the appointment and in wondering about emotional fidelity.
Though honestly, those aren't things my husband complains about at all. He would prefer that I remember to unload the dishwasher and move the laundry along. :)
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 16:38:49
In reply to Re: Sex therapy, posted by Racer on September 9, 2004, at 15:53:17
Thanks Racer. :)
I'll be happy to update in my usual interminable detail. :)
I was clear on the phone that I'm nowhere near wanting advice on pragmatic issues, shall we say. And I'm going to wait to see how it goes before I even mention it to my husband. I have no desire at the moment to do that joint couples stuff. Ick.
I agree with you completely about gender. I wouldn't dream of seeing a male sex therapist. And not because I'm shy. I just think they should stick to male sexual issues. :) In fact, I wonder that this woman therapist does couples sex therapy. It would seem to me that the ideal would be a male/female team doing couples sex therapy. I don't care how much studying someone does. Like they said on Seinfeld, you're bound to be more familiar with the equipment (not excluding the brain) if you own it. But that's just my own humble (yeah, right) opinion, and I'm sure there are many opposite sex sex therapists who help their clients.
I guess I'm second-guessing what my therapist will think because on some level it's true. At some level I find my attachment to him shameful, stupid, and dangerous. And the timing of calling this therapist right after an unsuccessful attempt to reduce therapy frequency is just a bit too convenient for me to ignore in terms of my own possible motivations.
However, my therapist is apparently not nearly as perspicacious as I. He just called and heartily endorsed the idea, saying it was an area that called for specific expertise and he was familiar with the therapist in question and considered that I was in good hands. Silly blind and foolish man. :)
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
In reply to Re: Sex therapy » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on September 9, 2004, at 15:14:57
I found this site, in case anyone wants to join me on the sex therapy bandwagon. :)
Posted by pantt on September 9, 2004, at 17:23:38
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
I went to that site and then found this book-it looks like something I might like to read. I haven't even thought about sex in ages-maybe I need to read it
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:33:03
In reply to Re: By the way » Dinah, posted by pantt on September 9, 2004, at 17:23:38
Wow. This is going to be harder than I thought. I got a bit dizzy just reading the questions about sexual dysfunction that the book can help you with. And I answered yes to a heck of a lot of them. :( I guess I could use that book too.
And there's a little voice inside me screaming "Why do you want to make it easier to do THAT??!!!"
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 17:54:47
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
I'm joining you on that bandwagon. Nobody I want to have sex with except myself but I can always imagine I suppose. Maybe that'll make me want it, baby. (That was an attempt at levity, oh well)
Posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:25:58
In reply to By the way, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:06:57
It's a good thing my husband doesn't follow babble or he'd have me leading the parade your bandwagon is in. I blame meds on my lack of interest. It's not meds, it's me. I'm not brave enough for sex therapy. Though I did look at the site and there are a bunch of sex therapists near me. Only one male though. Isn't that interesting? Then again my pdoc has a first name that can be male or female, so I shouldn't make guesses.
Go forth on your quest, Lady Dinah. You are far braver than me.
Poet the Coward
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
In reply to Re: By the way » Dinah, posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:25:58
Sorry, have to do this. Not that I don't agree in theory with what has been said about males/females.
I've had a few on/off again discussions about sex with my therapist. The first time it was very hard
"so do you have orgasms?" BLUSH...
but he was pretty sensitive about it all. Mostly it was about what I was thinking and feeling before, during, and after. Now, remember, I'm opening up huge sa issues so sex has been even harder over the past year for me. (no pun intended.)We talked about giving and receiving and how it feels to be sexually selfish. Now this isn't something I've ever thought about before. Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins. It is a life-pattern, always meet everyone else's needs, and it spills over, even into sex.
Anyway...the times we've talked about stuff aren't usually mechanical (once) but much more about desire, or not, retraumatizing aspects, fantasy, etc. And I've learned tons about myself and the way I view sex. And I thought I was pretty enlightened.
I like Racer's idea of the locker room requirement. Not only for body imagine, but to hear women talk. I've been pretty sheltered, sometimes I think, "people do that?? HOW???!!"
:)
Good Thread.
Posted by Poet on September 9, 2004, at 18:42:10
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
I can't talk about sex with my female T or male pdoc. Blushing, stammering and yes or no is about all I can do.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 19:18:10
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
It's not that I have any trouble talking to my therapist. I don't. Not at all. I'm not really shy about sex. And it's not that he's actually insensitive. He's not. But I do get the distinct feeling that he feels sorry for my husband, sexually speaking, and that feels judgemental to me. He doesn't say so, of course. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.
And I'm not sure a man can understand... Oh how to put this... There's no mistaking who's blitzkrieg Germany and who's Poland in sex, you know?
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 19:52:46
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger* » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 19:18:10
I don't know Dinah, I know some awfully agressive women. One of my best friends is ummm, very adventurous! She complains that her husband isn't active enough. And she has all kind of toys, etc. I'm often shocked and often amused. And glad it's not me!
I have learned not to share her stories with my hubby. He looks way to interested. *sigh*
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:04:45
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger*, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 19:52:46
First time I pick up on a "I sure feel sorry for her husband" vibe, i'm outta there. I can get that for free.
But I was referring to the actual logistics. Not adventurousness. :)
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:34:33
In reply to Re: Sex therapy, posted by Racer on September 9, 2004, at 15:53:17
I love the Good Vibrations book. I gave a copy of it to a young woman I know who was just starting to get sexually active. She was amazed that a 200 page book had only about 3 pages on vaginal intercourse ;) I've been with my husband sexually for over 30 years, and we didn't start to have a decent sex life for the last 5 or so, since we started using a vibrator. I'm hard to stimulate, mostly for psych reasons, and a sex toy makes it easier for me in lots of ways. I have talked with my T many times about sex, I think it's easier since I lie on a couch and don't have to look at him. He has helped me tremendously in understanding why sex is so hard for me. I don't like to be touched and I like to be in control, two things that aren't really compatable with a good sex life. Sex feels like submission to me when according to my T it should feel like surrender, a distinction that took me a long time to understand. I think it has helped me at times to have a male perspective. My husband went through a time where he was having problems in the performance department. I of course thought it was because I am not sexually attractive. My T told me that whatever the problem was he was quite sure it was not because I wasn't sexually attractive. That felt good to hear even if I don't really believe it.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:38:12
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
When I read this in your post, the little light bulb over my head clicked on and I had an ah-hah! "Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins." Thank you so much for sharing.. is this a common experience then?
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:41:40
In reply to In defense of Male Therapist, posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 18:37:38
>
> We talked about giving and receiving and how it feels to be sexually selfish. Now this isn't something I've ever thought about before. Turns out I'm uncomfortable taking...because I'm not sure when my turn is suppose to end and his begins. It is a life-pattern, always meet everyone else's needs, and it spills over, even into sex.
>My T talks about the same thing, but he calls it subject and object. Sometimes you're the subject and sometimes you're the object. I want to be the object but my desire for control makes that really hard, and my husband is would like to the subject more often but his desire to please makes it easier for him to be the object. We have learned to trade off the roles but it's hard sometimes. When we can it makes our sex better..and anything is better than the awful way it used to be. As Daisy says above, it isn't just about sex, it just lops over into the bedroom.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:54:23
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 20:41:40
Lucy your posts really made me think about sex as surrender. I used to feel that way about sex. I don't know what happened but somewhere in the single years I couldn't do that anymore. When I could, sex was fantastic. I never once surrendered to my last husband, not that I can recall at any rate. Never had an O with him either, unless I was ... imagining something else.
Okay. Now I know why I had sexual feelings for my therapist. It makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe I can think things through a bit now, oh gawd. Nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that he's drop dead gorgeous. God I had such a double whammy. Therapists like him ought to be illegal. Ew ew ew.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist » lucy stone, posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 20:54:23
I see I have years of sex therapy ahead of me. These issues are the equivilant to a doctoral thesis for a kindergartner. grin.
Posted by Susan47 on September 9, 2004, at 21:05:05
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
Posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 21:14:46
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 20:59:04
> I see I have years of sex therapy ahead of me. These issues are the equivilant to a doctoral thesis for a kindergartner. grin.
I'm in my 50s and have been with the same guy for over 30 years and we are just now starting to figure it out, largely because of the work I am doing in my analysis. Better late than never, I guess.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:51:49
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist, posted by lucy stone on September 9, 2004, at 21:14:46
I'm not far behind you. Forties. With same guy for 25+ years, married over ten.
But my problems are so very basic. I couldn't kiss my dates back when I was dating because kissing felt like being smothered. My now husband was the only exception. But years into our relationship that smothering fear came back. Touching is an irritant. Intercourse is painful.
And trying to do anything to make any of it better *feels* like I'm being a facilitator to my own... Oh never mind. But the upshot is that I sabotage any attempts on my part to make things any better.
With that level of dysfunction and that much resistance to change, this latest effort is also doomed to failure and I might as well give up and cancel and save myself the money and stress.
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2004, at 22:38:48
In reply to Re: In defense of Male Therapist *trigger?*, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:51:49
Don't give up before you get started!
I know that smothered feeling. I float away more than 50% of the time these days and just let it happen. And then I have an emotional melt down later. I tell myself often that it isn't my husband's fault that I don't enjoy sex or that it stirs up such intense memories for me. I'm really trying hard to meet his needs and still protect myself. It is all complicated by my husband's illnesses which makes sex for him much more challenging...you can't "just" do it. Timing is everything.
One of the things my therapist asked me is what do I "like"...what would make it perfect for me? It was an amazing thing to realize that I've never thought about what I like...which, of course, was his whole point.
I'm not a martyr by any stretch. It just is one more thing that stresses an already stressed household. So it would be nice to have more clarity about what my mind and body want.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.