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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 20:07:44
In reply to Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Skittles on August 31, 2004, at 1:20:09
I think it may come down to personal preference. Some clinicians may not be comfortable with it, in general, or with respect to a particular client. A lot of clinicians are probably a bit fearful they will be sued, especially male clinicians with female clients. Some have ideas about it being okay if the door is open, or it being okay if it is in the hallway or somewhere where there are witnesses. I wouldn't like to be hugged by a male clinician (well, perhaps I would but I don't think it would be good for me at all). I have been wanting to ask my female T for a hug, but I am a bit too afraid to. I have only hugged one clinician before, and that was in our last session together before she left the service. She said, 'do you want a hug'? But I don't think she expected me to want one, and she seemed a lot suprised when I gave her one. Maybe it is because I have issues with eye contact, maybe this is a bit bizzare, but to me eye contact is more intimate than a hug. But then, depends how you hug I suppose.
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 20:07:44
Hey, I have those same eye contact ideas! My therapist has given up for the most part, and only asks me to look at him for specific reasons. I go through most of therapy with my eyes closed, or at best looking out the window or at his shoes. I think I looked at his shoes more at the old office though. At the new office the distance between the chairs is tricky to work out the right angle to look at shoes, and if I'm not careful I wake up from concentrating on whatever I'm talking about to discover that my field of vision includes his crotch. And even though I'm not actually *looking* at his crotch, that's nearly as bad as eye contact.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
Oh, no way!!! My T really hates it that I won't look at her. I ask her why it is so important to her, and she mutters something about bonding.
I would love it if we could get a couch and I could lie down with my eyes closed. Really, I don't want to think of her as a person too much -in the sense that I censor what I say because I am concerned about what she may think of me. I would rather just 'think out loud'. But that is a bit too 'out there' for her, so there it is.
Posted by caraher on August 31, 2004, at 21:31:22
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
Hah! - just commented on hugging in another thread. I've never been hugged by a T and think that it's probably best that way for the most part.
As for eye contact... yeah, that's a huge one with me. One T early on asked me what was so interesting about my shoes. I really wasn't aware of it before that. He didn't really do much with that, though. I moved on to someone with a CBT orientation and we worked heavily on that, both within sessions and outside with assignments to make eye contact, say hello, things like that. I still have to remind myself a lot to make more eye contact with people. It brings up a lot of issues for me - I feel like it's too bold for *me* to look in someone else's eyes. Can we detect any self-esteem issues here? ;)
I think it's worth paying attention to in therapy, especially if you have shyness problems in general
Posted by lucy stone on August 31, 2004, at 22:36:09
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
>
> I would love it if we could get a couch and I could lie down with my eyes closed. Really, I don't want to think of her as a person too much -in the sense that I censor what I say because I am concerned about what she may think of me. I would rather just 'think out loud'. But that is a bit too 'out there' for her, so there it is.
>
>You've just described psychoanalysis. Have you ever considered it? I am doing an analysis and finding it very helpful.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by lucy stone on August 31, 2004, at 22:36:09
> You've just described psychoanalysis. Have you ever considered it? I am doing an analysis and finding it very helpful.
Oh wow, good for you. Yes, in a sense I would be very keen to do it. But I have a history of BPD and someone or other said that we have a tendancy to regress and become psychotic under analysis :-(
I would like to do it one day though, perhaps that could be a goal for me, to get well enough to be able to do that!
I don't mind a bit more direction, though. I like questions because sometimes my mind will just range and I need a question for something to say. Shame I can't answer them with my eyes closed, or with my eyes on the ceiling, though.
How long have you been doing this? I am really interested in what your sessions are like.
Posted by Dinah on September 1, 2004, at 18:18:30
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
Why can't you answer them eyes closed? My eyes are closed at least half the time during sessions, and I sit up facing him. :)
Posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 18:45:26
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on September 1, 2004, at 18:18:30
Well, I do but this has become a bone of contention between me and my T. I try to look at her briefly and smile when she greets me in the waiting room, but once we are in the office with the door closed that is the end of the eye contact for me. I prefer to close my eyes, but I think that freaks her out rather as she is afraid that I'll dissociate or switch. Can't look at the ceiling without craning my neck up.
I try to focus on my shoes or a little bit of the floor, or something to her left or right. I do try to smile and stuff, but I don't like to look at her.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 1, 2004, at 18:51:07
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on September 1, 2004, at 17:17:05
I'm in analysis, too, and thought I'd just add my two cents' worth of views!. Analysis is the most thorough, excellent treatment that a person with BPD could undertake. The idea that people with that particular diagnosis would get worse in analysis was very widely believed years ago, but analysis has changed tremendously, and in many ways is now designed to really repair the basic defect in BPD, which I believe has to do with difficulties with emotional regulation and interpersonal attachment. The analysts are very interactive now; it's entirely possible to do only part, or even none of it, on the couch. If eye contact is an important issue which you would like to deal with, you might want to use a part of your sessions sitting up and exploring your fears around it in depth. It is true that analysts rarely, or never, bring up topics themselves; however, they are very responsive to what you say. You really have someone right there listening, understanding and responding to you in a way that you have never had before.
If you decided to do it, you could go to a Training Institute, where the cost would be flexible enough for even a student. Like Lucy, I am very glad that I went into analysis- it's helping a lot. ( I have complex PTSD because of abuse).
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:40:37
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » Skittles, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 1:52:11
Dinah,
Holding with his voice is a new concept for me, but it feels right. It seems that's what my T did for me, whether he attempted to do so or not. Is this holding with attitude rather than physicality a real concept, or one that we're engineering with our reactions? I mean, are Ts trained in this psychic holding concept? I'm just confused.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:51:12
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by wheeler on August 31, 2004, at 12:59:48
Sorry for posting again, but reading Wheeler's post I was reminded that last week I had a job interview that ended in a hug. It was wonderful because this person and I just connected, even though it was the first time we'd met. I honestly don't know if that's her regular style, but she initiated it and it felt wonderful. So real human being-like.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:55:34
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 20:16:29
I'm with you guys (girls) on the eye contact. I used to look at my therapist's shoes and his walls a lot. Sometimes the ceiling. I guess he's used to that... maybe that's why he looks wherever he wants and tends to forget that I might have eyes to see too. Funny. Very funny. LOL.
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:58:58
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by alexandra_k on August 31, 2004, at 21:13:35
Eye contact=bonding? Interesting, as I used to look into my therapist's eyes a lot in the beginning, then when I made the decision that this therapy was bad for me, and I had to stop going, I started looking away a lot. I always looked at the rug in the beginning actually. I guess it was somewhere near the middle of the relationship that I actually had the nerve to look into his eyes ... then I completely lost it. Would Calvin say "kaplooie"?
Posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 0:36:29
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought., posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 23:40:37
I think they receive training in techniques that create the effect. I don't know if they call it that. :)
I don't analyze it too closely. It's one of the things that I prefer to think is magic.
Posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
In reply to Re: Hugging and different schools of thought. » Susan47, posted by Dinah on September 3, 2004, at 0:36:29
I maintain eye contact unless I retelling a memory or reading something. Then I look out the window. I need the eye contact sometimes to stay in the room. I think I'm trying to see what he is thinking.
Here is something weird: I've been seeing him for 15 months, give or take. When he gave me a picture last month, I noticed he was wearing glasses. I thought, wow, he must leave them off during sessions. or wear contact lens or something. Nope. He has had on his glasses (they aren't all that noticable, wire rims) every session. I'm sure he has always had them. I guess I just look into his eyes so straight on that I stopped seeing them. I should tell him that. Except he would probably wonder what it means that I didn't see/remember them.
Laughing at myself -- Again!!
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 3, 2004, at 13:45:53
In reply to Eye Contact, posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
My T would never allow me NOT to make eye contact. The few times I have avoided his eyes, he tells me to look at him, "Laurel, look at me." This doesn't happen often however since I am big on eye contact in everyday life and he has the most gorgeous brown eyes I have ever seen.
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:23:34
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 3, 2004, at 13:45:53
Ew ew ew my therapist had the more gorgeous brown eyes too. Do they all come from a special gorgeous brown-eye factory???
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:25:10
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 17:23:34
Oh my, a Freudian slip; I should've said "most" not "more" in about post. How hilarious!
Posted by shrinking violet on September 3, 2004, at 19:36:26
In reply to Eye Contact, posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
Eye contact is difficult for me in the best of situations, but in therapy, it's close to impossible. I look at the floor, at my T's feet, at my lap, at the bookcase, at the door. I even crane my neck around sometimes to look at the window or the sunflower on my T's computer desk. I'm very conscious of my NOT looking at her, though, so I try to look into her eyes periodically, especially when she's speaking (which is quite often, lol). Sometimes she'll try to twist herself to catch my eye, or she'll ask me to look at her.
Posted by allisonf on September 3, 2004, at 21:18:34
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by shrinking violet on September 3, 2004, at 19:36:26
I'm so glad I'm not alone in looking at everything but my therapist when I am in session! Sometimes I think about the eye contact issue as I'm talking and I make myself look at her, but usually not. She is so good about looking at me, but she never calls me on it when I don't look at her. It's interesting to hear some of you say your T does.
Also, I think eye contact is directly related to level of depression. I find in my most depressive periods I barely look at my T at all (or anyone else for that matter).
Oh, my T has those brown eyes too!:)
Posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 21:25:02
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by allisonf on September 3, 2004, at 21:18:34
No offense to blue-eyes. What colour are yours?
Posted by allisonf on September 4, 2004, at 11:09:03
In reply to This is teenager-ish but, Brown eyes rule., posted by Susan47 on September 3, 2004, at 21:25:02
My eyes? Are brown too. But not as beautifully brown as my therapists! :) You would think this would make me want to look at her eyes more when I am in session. Go figure!
Posted by Poet on September 4, 2004, at 11:31:34
In reply to Eye Contact, posted by daisym on September 3, 2004, at 1:14:36
My T has dark brown eyes, more black really. When we get into anything deep, I look away from her. I avoid all eye contact and have covered my face with a pillow. She once covered her whole head and body with an afghan and said we're playing peek-a-boo. That got me to laugh and look at her again.
She's so wonderfully strange, that's why I like her. I guess I'm wonderfully strange, too, but I don't like me, though she says she likes me.
Poet
p.s. my eyes are dark green
Posted by Susan47 on September 4, 2004, at 22:57:27
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Poet on September 4, 2004, at 11:31:34
I just thought that was so cute about your therapist covering herself with an afghan. She sounds wonderful alright.
Posted by tinydancer on September 5, 2004, at 4:45:21
In reply to Re: Eye Contact, posted by Miss Honeychurch on September 3, 2004, at 13:45:53
Okay, I have had eye contact problems since about 14 or so. I can't look anyone in the eye really. When I talk I do the famous "look past the one you are talking to" and affix my eyes to a point somewhere beyond, without really realizing I am doing this. I've gotten a little better, but it is physical painful for me to look into peoples eyes when I'm talking to them. My T usually says once in awhile, "I'm sort of missing some sense of eye contact here, Tiny..." And then I can do it. I've had to cover my eyes up in therapy sometimes to say things. It's terrible. This summer though, I got contact lenses, and its been amazing. People have been telling me how beautiful I look and how nice it is to see my eyes. The glasses I wear usually fall down my nose and land about right mid eye, so that you can't even make eye contact with me if you want to when I have my glasses on.....
I could never do contacts every day though.
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