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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 4:22:47
Hi all. I've been somewhere(?) else, just dealing w/ all kinds of stuff for a while. Pdoc increased my Eff-XR, and PCPdoc put me on a muscle relaxant, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory, and Neurontin for nerve pain due to c-spine injury, arthritis, and fibromyalgia. I feel better and suicidal ideation is nearly gone. I've been seeing my therapist for over a month and we still cannot begin DBT, and, OH, it's my fault; sincerely. I keep missing or being a little late to appts. Other appts (not therapy) I get to fine. I've always been compliant. But there is something here and it smells like fear. My father who passed away in Feb was a free spirit and he always said I was too. Is DBT going to take that away, is that my fear? I'm shaking my head; I'm not sure. It was I that sought out and worked hard to get into the best DBT program here in this metrop I live in. Now I'm sabotaging it. Anyone done the same? I wish I had just a little more anxiety med, the 2mg of Klonopin is not nearly effective enough. I have really bad tremors. I still grieve like a freshly wounded animal. I want to say thank you to fellow BpersonDs I've met here. My understanding is that DBT therapists do things to provoke anxiety and see how you react. Well, she is going on and on about my no-shows or lateness, and I deserve it. I'm on probation again, 4 wks., not even 5m late acceptable, or I cannot participate in DBT. It must be my priority! I met a nice, funny, smart guy. I vaguely remember interacting in a nice way, so let him lead. Very unfamiliar territory. But everything must take a back seat to DBT. I know I am self-sagotaging. I've been working on ways to get to appts early! Will see if I can make it tomorrow. Am I afraid I will lose my free spirit? Anyone experiencing similar situation? Doing good, but being subconsiously noncompliant ... cf
Posted by shortelise on August 24, 2004, at 12:40:33
In reply to BpersonD, Less Suicidal, Free Spirit v DBT therapy, posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 4:22:47
I am worthy of feeling better. I will be early for my appointment.
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 16:57:54
In reply to BpersonD, Less Suicidal, Free Spirit v DBT therapy, posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 4:22:47
I think it might be comforting for you to remember that therapy can't *make* you change anything you don't want to change. (Just ask my therapist.) You can take what you want from DBT and leave the rest. You might have to give up being a free spirit *just* for the classes, since I understand they are highly regimented, but you don't have to change your whole way of being.
I would think that DBT, when done properly, would free you even more to act rather than react. To be as spontaneous as you choose to be in any given situation. :) Which I think sounds worse than it feels.
Posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 17:59:25
In reply to Re: BpersonD, Less Suicidal, Free Spirit v DBT therapy » corafree, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 16:57:54
> I think it might be comforting for you to remember that therapy can't *make* you change anything you don't want to change. (Just ask my therapist.) You can take what you want from DBT and leave the rest. You might have to give up being a free spirit *just* for the classes, since I understand they are highly regimented, but you don't have to change your whole way of being.
>
> I would think that DBT, when done properly, would free you even more to act rather than react. To be as spontaneous as you choose to be in any given situation. :) Which I think sounds worse than it feels.And I would think you are right ... and I am 'duh'! Thanks for the insight. Yes instead of being an armchair warrior, maybe I could actually 'do' something, because I really do love a lot. cf
Posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2004, at 21:13:36
In reply to Borderline Personality Disorder » Dinah, posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 17:59:25
DBT won't / can't turn you from a free spirit to whatever the opposite is (high doses of meds are more likely to knock that out of you). Linehan says that borderlines will always be the 'colourful' people of this world, and all the treatment in the world aint going to change that :-)
DBT isn't so bad. I don't think that it is part of the treatment approach to try to trigger you just because the therapist can, but then there are also rules: and turning up for treatment and not being late or missing sessions is one of those (the therapist can't help you if you don't go see them). So if you break a rule then this goes on the agenda as something that you have to discuss in the session because it is considered a 'therapy interfering behaviour'. You have to turn up and agree to work on the treatment hierarchy, but they are the only rules though so its not toooooo regimented.
I do understand your fear though. I was terrified when I started DBT. I got through a year of it though, and it did help me immensely (though not with some of the problems I have).. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into what is the best treatment for you and you have decided that this is it and so now you need to start working with your therapist to help you figure out how to turn up so that your therapist can help you with the other stuff too.
Good luck with making your appointments, I hope it gets easier for ya.
Posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 23:56:15
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by alexandra_k on August 24, 2004, at 21:13:36
> DBT won't / can't turn you from a free spirit to whatever the opposite is (high doses of meds are more likely to knock that out of you). Linehan says that borderlines will always be the 'colourful' people of this world, and all the treatment in the world aint going to change that :-)
>
> DBT isn't so bad. I don't think that it is part of the treatment approach to try to trigger you just because the therapist can, but then there are also rules: and turning up for treatment and not being late or missing sessions is one of those (the therapist can't help you if you don't go see them). So if you break a rule then this goes on the agenda as something that you have to discuss in the session because it is considered a 'therapy interfering behaviour'. You have to turn up and agree to work on the treatment hierarchy, but they are the only rules though so its not toooooo regimented.
>
> I do understand your fear though. I was terrified when I started DBT. I got through a year of it though, and it did help me immensely (though not with some of the problems I have).. It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into what is the best treatment for you and you have decided that this is it and so now you need to start working with your therapist to help you figure out how to turn up so that your therapist can help you with the other stuff too.
>
> Good luck with making your appointments, I hope it gets easier for ya.Tks. It's so odd that I am noncompliant w/ appt times, like I said. Something inside me is holding me back. I think I am doing it on purpose. For many yrs been almost unaware of my feelings. I just try to keep up w/ current moments. When my father died in Feb, I really lost myself. He was the one person who validated and always loved, no matter what I did. The rest of my family do not validate that I have a problem ... ya know, like someone else here said 'just snap out of it', and they think I am just trying to get attention. Does rapid cycling have anything to do with remembering, learning, etc.? I am forgetful, and intently listen to someone's directions, and as I walk away, I do not remember anything they said. I have had a lot of abuse by men. My family of origins' dismissing my illness, has made me feel guilty. I will try to remember that DBT should enable me to 'express', rather than what I do now; which is sit, smoke cigs, and THINK about 'expressing myself.' Besides my current overwhelming grief, I have a chronic c-spine injury which takes up a lot of my time, and after a TAH-BSO...I have problems that may require further surgery. Feel like I need a secretary. cf
Posted by Susan47 on August 25, 2004, at 0:22:42
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » alexandra_k, posted by corafree on August 24, 2004, at 23:56:15
Corafree, I can really relate to a lot of stuff you said. When you say you have a bad memory, is it really your memory or are you really just listening to someone without absorbing what they're saying. I did that for so many years it seems incredible now. I listen to people differently now and I *remember* a lot more of what they say.
Your post was really interesting. I can see you sitting there, chainsmoking and thinking.
Posted by corafree on August 25, 2004, at 13:29:38
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Susan47 on August 25, 2004, at 0:22:42
> Corafree, I can really relate to a lot of stuff you said. When you say you have a bad memory, is it really your memory or are you really just listening to someone without absorbing what they're saying. I did that for so many years it seems incredible now. I listen to people differently now and I *remember* a lot more of what they say.
> Your post was really interesting. I can see you sitting there, chainsmoking and thinking.I AM listening and just not absorbing what is said. Where am I that I cannot absorb what is said...I don't know. Do you know what this is? I hope it isn't plain old stupidity. I am just sooo tired of this. I'm really fed up. What has happened to my mind? I used to be able to LISTEN AND REMEMBER! Life is so darn hard! Tks cf
Posted by alexandra_k on August 25, 2004, at 17:39:06
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 25, 2004, at 13:29:38
Lots of medication can make it harder for stuff to sink into the old memory. Hopefully with DBT you may find it easier to manage so that meds can be reduced and you may find that your memory problems improve. I have found that to be the case for me.
Have you thought of writing to your T to tell them the sorts of things that you are posting here about your fears about DBT? You seem to have good insight into what is holding you back. That may be something that your T can help you with. Maybe you need a bit more time to work through some of that before starting the program. Just a thought...
Posted by Susan47 on August 25, 2004, at 19:39:29
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 25, 2004, at 13:29:38
Corafree,
I did exactly that too. I listened but I wasn't there. I could repeat what you'd just told me, but none of it made any sense. I wasn't processing anything. For years. I can't believe I kept down a full-time job and raised a child in there.
But you're aware of it! And you're not stupid! Neither am I but I sure fooled everybody.
Posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 14:24:30
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Susan47 on August 25, 2004, at 19:39:29
I guess it's time I took the ADD test. Told my T and she agreed I should ask my P about doing that. Did you take a test? I guess there is one here online. Could that be why I am tired; just overwhelmed with my clouded head, immobilized by fleeting thoughts, doing nothing because don't know what to do?! I was sitting outside my DBT T's place, beside a girl. Started talking and she had ADD. She said she took Adderall(?), then now Ritalin. Told her my constant feeling of tiredness. Is this common w/ ADD? I do need to continue course re: ADD and be sure I have the DX. From what you've said, we seem to have had very similar situations. I also can't believe I raised 3ch and worked as I did. Have you read You Mean I Am Not Dumb, Stupid, or Lazy? It was suggested to me, but I've not read. (I may have title wrong Dr. Bob, so I haven't underlined.) My email is rjisokatcybertrails.com. tks cf
> Corafree,
> I did exactly that too. I listened but I wasn't there. I could repeat what you'd just told me, but none of it made any sense. I wasn't processing anything. For years. I can't believe I kept down a full-time job and raised a child in there.
> But you're aware of it! And you're not stupid! Neither am I but I sure fooled everybody.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:13:09
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 14:24:30
Corafree,
I have no idea about ADD. I try not to label myself, really. It's nice to know other people have the same experiences. Now that I know what it's like to pay attention and be able to process things, I hope I can be conscious of it all the time so I can function at a higher level than I have been. That's all I'm doing, that's all I can do I think. I mean, I don't think labelling me is going to help. I must not need Ritalin and whatever else because I am able to function without; okay, honestly I'm not doing everything I'd like to do and I do know what you mean about feeling tired. I feel overwhelmed sometimes about all the stuff I've let go in the past, but I'm trying really really hard to get past that. I got a job today, my dream job really. I mean, it's a job I've wanted to try out (thence "dream" job) since I was 18. Now I get a chance to do that. I'm very lucky. And it's a job where I'll have to be aware. I'll have to pay attention. I hope I can do it. Wish me luck, and keep posting I missed you.
Posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 15:33:59
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 15:13:09
Pls excuse the labeling. I didn't make them up...just didn't know how else to describe all the symptoms I feel. I don't like labeling either, but I am new at sharing w/ others. I'm happy you got your dream job! cf
> Corafree,
> I have no idea about ADD. I try not to label myself, really. It's nice to know other people have the same experiences. Now that I know what it's like to pay attention and be able to process things, I hope I can be conscious of it all the time so I can function at a higher level than I have been. That's all I'm doing, that's all I can do I think. I mean, I don't think labelling me is going to help. I must not need Ritalin and whatever else because I am able to function without; okay, honestly I'm not doing everything I'd like to do and I do know what you mean about feeling tired. I feel overwhelmed sometimes about all the stuff I've let go in the past, but I'm trying really really hard to get past that. I got a job today, my dream job really. I mean, it's a job I've wanted to try out (thence "dream" job) since I was 18. Now I get a chance to do that. I'm very lucky. And it's a job where I'll have to be aware. I'll have to pay attention. I hope I can do it. Wish me luck, and keep posting I missed you.
Posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 16:22:48
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 15:33:59
Sorry Corafree, I didn't mean to say that putting a name to a symptom is a bad thing. I just meant that *I* try not to put names to anything I might possible be exhibiting symptoms of, because personally, I don't want to feel like there's anything *wrong* with me, I don't want anything I need to *lean* on in life, besides me own best self (no matter how bad that might be at times, I bet you know what I mean).
Posted by terrics on August 29, 2004, at 10:51:57
In reply to Re: Borderline Personality Disorder » Susan47, posted by corafree on August 27, 2004, at 14:24:30
Hi Cora, I am doing dbt and you are right about the therapist provoking anger and other emotions, but dbt does not take your free spirit away. I hope you are in a group too. I find the group to be fun. Dbt is alot of Zen Buddhism and common sense. Nothing like I thought it would be. My T. scared me at first because she was down right mean. Now when she says 'stupid' things I either ignore her or tell her what I think. The very strange thing is that you can not tell when you are being provoked or when she is just doing therapy.
[ Marsha Linehan took alot of info word for word out of a book called "The Miracle of Mindfulness" by Thich Nhat Hanh.]
Initially the focus is on any harmful [target] behaviors or therapy interfering behaviors one has. If you do not do them [the behaviors] then you can talk about what you want to, or what the T suggests. It can't hurt to try???
You have to do diary cards stating what behaviors you have engaged in and emotions you felt during the week. Also what dbt skills you used. [They are very simple]. terrics
Posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 21:09:34
In reply to Re: Labels » corafree, posted by Susan47 on August 27, 2004, at 16:22:48
No prob. I know exactly what you mean. I used to hate labels, but more recently, well I'm pretty old, I think, and there's no time to mess around anymore, so maybe I am agreeing to some of this labeling because I feel the need to get well for many reasons, a new granddaughter, the loss of my father and I want to carry on his spirit, and I want a relationship, but won't start one until I know WHO I am and WHY I am a sabotager. see ya cf
> Sorry Corafree, I didn't mean to say that putting a name to a symptom is a bad thing. I just meant that *I* try not to put names to anything I might possible be exhibiting symptoms of, because personally, I don't want to feel like there's anything *wrong* with me, I don't want anything I need to *lean* on in life, besides me own best self (no matter how bad that might be at times, I bet you know what I mean).
This is the end of the thread.
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