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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 15:19:07
Do I lack the kind of fundamental core which enables people to deal with problems, the world, life? Is some vitally necessary element missing, the fact not immediately apparent because on the surface I look normal?
Perhaps anyone with an eye to see can tell that I'm only bluffing. In reality, I'm like one of those old Western movie sets....a facade of shops and saloons with nothing at all behind it.
PTSD_Girl
Posted by partlycloudy on August 22, 2004, at 17:00:42
In reply to A Facade, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 15:19:07
I have always held that my entire life is a sham. That I have lived this long and where I do what I do because I was able to "snow" everyone. I'm not who I appear to others. Some have called me calm. If they could only see the nail marks in my palms from clenching my hands. The ache in my jaw from holding my mouth together.
Posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 17:23:06
In reply to Re: A Facade » PTSD_Girl, posted by partlycloudy on August 22, 2004, at 17:00:42
A thought; do you let people see the insecure side of self? Just peeping out a little now and then? Not to manipulate anybody, but just to let them see the real human you and give them a chance to love you.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 22, 2004, at 19:06:53
In reply to Re: A Facade » partlycloudy, posted by Susan47 on August 22, 2004, at 17:23:06
I can't do it without crying so hard I can't speak. Usually I speak of it in terms of disgust so I can at least feel angry instead of sad. That seems to get me past it, but not thr it.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 7:11:21
In reply to Re: A Facade » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 22, 2004, at 19:06:53
Besides getting overwraught and upset when I reveal my true state of mind, I have had my confidences in others betray me time and again. I work full time (and have had through all these years of illness); and, without exception, every time I have shown the real side of myself, it has eventually been used to discredit me and have been fired a few times.
I don't have many friends IRL and none who ever showed any curiosity beyond the "weird" factor about my depression and anxiety. My husband is only now getting an understanding about what I go through. Until then he has been supportive but puzzled and frustrated in how best to help me.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 23, 2004, at 9:43:23
In reply to A Facade, posted by PTSD_Girl on August 22, 2004, at 15:19:07
***********WARNING THERE IS A MAJOR WAR ZONE AT THE END OF THIS POST*****************************
Personally, I don't mean to offend adults, but I think most adults are a facade. They are what they think is "normal", business-like, appropriate, to name a few words off my list. They have to think it over, process it, or they are operating under unconscious issues from old stuff.Kids aren't a facade to me. They come off as more natural, spontaneous, and truth sayers. Now, I am talking about a specific age here. Not teens, because they are starting to learn the facade to "fit in". I am saying around four-five group maybe. I don't want to get into the group of school children that are learning the game of keep your mouth shut and behave like good little so-so in the corner there or being bad gets good attention too game. The preschooler age to me is the natural person. Music is magical. Words have powers. Hair is beautiful. M&M's are toys. (No need for computers here folks for me.) Colors have a taste. Now, I am not wanting a debate. This is my personal opinion for myself. Perhaps, it is a different age for someone else like 40.
But, to me a four - five y/o doesn't have baggage either. Yes, I know there are developmental issues, but I just feel that's the natural person. The play is free. Language is all new.
Expressions in our faces aren't creased into our faces. We are open. We are willing. We scream when scared. We say when we need to pee or need to eat. We cry when sad. We laugh when happy. We don't even really know what ugly is or who is different yet.We haven't been fixed yet to look at someone else's rules to see how to act, think, dress, believe, and even become. The world is new. Yes, others beliefs are having effect already, but not yet fixated. So, yes, to me all adults are to a degree a facade of others beliefs, upbringing, generational view points, religous doctrins, etc. Can we ever be really free as a 4-1/2 year old again in knowing what we know now?
We have already been touched by developmental issues, beliefs, baggage issues, failed relationships, there maybe trust issues, etc.....
Here are some examples of the facade in my opinion.
1)"You must believe what I believe as important, fair/right or you must see the world as I see."
2)"You play by my rules or I will not Love you."
3)How about the game of, "Someone hurt me so I am going to hurt everybody that reminds me of the people that hurt me".
4)"I must win or be perfect at everything."
5)"I am a bad person and I never win at anything"
game."
7)"You must make me happy",
8)"I need someone to make me happy",
9)"I must save people to make me happy"
10)"I will play the sick role to get the love I want"
11)"I need unnecessary surgeries(doc visits) to get the love I need"
12)"I need Food/drugs/sex/shopping/gambling/tv/drama/chattingon-line/sports/reading/exercise/ to make me happy."(Hey, wait a minute on this one! I am personally offended! I DO need a few things on the list...)
We do so many things instead of saying, "I want you to hold me or saying I don't think you love me or just crying when someone says ugly things to us. No, we are adults and we know better..... I think we need to go back to preschool.
SHADOWS IS SOUNDING TOO PREACHY TO ME! Yes, What's with her? What's her problem?
Shadows, you have crossed the line on number 12. We have had it! We are not going to touch______________, ___________, ___________,____________,_____________&________....Shadows, I am not proof reading your posts anymore. You have totally offended me with this entire post about adults, Shadows. All of this is shear garbage. WHO THE HECK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE ANY WAY??!! You act like you know it all. You don't know (OMIT). You are getting on my ever lasting nerve. (Taking this war off line)
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 10:30:40
In reply to I didn't really answer your question!, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 7:11:21
You mentioned the word "weird" and my sensors went awry. I've heard that word in relation to myself since I was thirteen. Is "weird" a word you just came up with or have others used it against (sometimes lovingly, hah) you?
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 10:31:33
In reply to Shadowplayers,, posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 10:30:40
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 10:37:50
In reply to Facade (The adult world)*pos trig*(WAR ZONE), posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 23, 2004, at 9:43:23
Parents start all that stuff with kids don't they. Kids would be able to remain true to themselves in the world, if parents didn't put their stuff on them. I put stuff on my kids and was dumbfounded to finally recognize the effects... and voices from childhood started haunting me. My mother. Now I just feel so sorry for her, she had such a huge burden. But I feel for the kid I was too and am trying to bring that honesty back into my life. I think it's working but I still have to be careful about how I express myself to others. The watchful eye of the third party, so to speak. I already have at least two in here.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 12:18:21
In reply to Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721 (nm), posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 10:31:33
No one has outright called me weird. To me it's like the fascination the general public has with circus freaks or people with obvious physical disabilities. They want to know what it's like, but they can't truly comprehend. That's another reason for me to keep up that facade. I feel isolated enough already without having someone pity me or avoid me because they think I'll have a hissy fit and foam at the mouth. Which is what I did in England last week.
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 12:25:02
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721 » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 12:18:21
Oh, do tell. What happened?
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 14:26:47
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721, posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 12:25:02
I was doing the driving on our holiday in England. It was all I could do the keep on the correct side of the road, despite having lived over there for 7 years. My husband agreed to be my navigator. It worked swell, until we didn't know where we were going. I would send him in (to a pub or gas station) and he'd come back saying we were all set.
Then he'd admit that he couldn't understand what the person was saying. Don't ask me why I couldn't have gone in and done the same - I made it his job and gave him a miserable time.
So we're toodling around The Potteries, trying to find our bed and breakfast we had reserved a room at. It was "throwing it down" with rain - isn't that a great expression? My husband asked for directions 4 times. At one roundabout, I asked - north? south? what town am I headed for? - and he didn't know any better than I. I went around 3 times and took an exit just to get out of there. Pulled into the next street. Parked the car.
Started screaming: I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this!!!! Hit my legs with my fists. Sobbed like there was no tomorrow. Had snot running all over, which I promptly rubbed into my jeans and t-shirt. Kept this up for 10 minutes or so. Stopped because I started gasping for breath. Started to drive again, and pulled into traffic on the wrong side of the road. Started screaming again. Everyone else on the road sat patiently and waited for me to get the heck out of there.
20 minutes later we made it to the bed and breakfast. I was shaking and stalled the car 3 times trying to park. Husband went in to tell the owners I was having a hard time. Came back with paper towels to wipe up the snot. My knees buckled when I got out of the car. Husband almost carried me in to the home and up the stairs to our room.
I feel like such an utter failure and like I was a real poop head to my husband. I know he did not realize the extent of my anxiety until this happened. I thought I was getting better and I fell apart.
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 16:53:26
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721 » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 14:26:47
Partlycloudy,
I'm going to break up your post and comment on stuff. I'll probably post 3 or 4 times now, because I find it easier to do little posts. Don't read me if it's onerous. What you said about sending your husband in to get directions made me really laugh. I did the same thing regularly with mine. Of course he'd let me down each and every time. The thought's flashed through my head more than once that I was always trying to make him step outside of his tightly-set boundaries. Of course when he did he failed, and I'd get angry and it would just reinforce what I already thought of him (it wasn't much, truthfully, oh I was a terrible wife I'll never be a wife ever again). Oops, I vented, sorry.
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 17:04:45
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721 » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 14:26:47
...when I finished reading your post I just loved you so much. Why do we give ourselves such a hard time for being human? You were only *human*, PC. It was okay. You were allowed, really. You're allowed to fall apart like that. There've been three times, that I remember, that I almost jumped out of moving cars because I felt so trapped and desperate. Cars seem to be a theme in my life for snaps. Anyway, at least you were the driver, not the passenger! And you told the story with good humour... What a great story you have to tell people when they ask you about your holiday. Wow. At least you had the sense to park the car before you let go, you get good points for that partlycloudy. Don't waste your energy feeling like a failure, I doubt very much that's true. I love what you said, "poop head". The only thing I'm worried about is the tense you used, you say you "Feel" like a failure, not you "felt" like a failure. Is this still bothering you?
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 17:25:51
In reply to Oh, Partlycloudy..., posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 17:04:45
Yes, I have used the present tense. I did post a question on the Health board about whether jet lag and altering the timing of my medications could induce a depressive state. I'm sensitive to the timing in the first place, plus I gave in to the temptation of the yummy British ales. I don't usually drink alcohol anymore unless I'm falling apart.
I'm mostly disappointed because I was all charged up with showing off "my England" to my husband and ended up making it a very poor soap opera.
I do see both my therapist and my EMDR T this week. I hope to sort it out eventually.
I look forward to your insights, Susan.
Posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 17:34:08
In reply to Re: Oh, Partlycloudy... » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 17:25:51
I hope you get past this soon partlycloudy. Your honesty about what happened is probably partly what makes you feel like a failure, but it shouldn't; I mean, how many people do you know who would honestly tell that story, the way you did? You showed us your faults and flaws in that story; psst, I see myself in you. So now I have these really nice warm feelings about you, PC. I think that's what you should be getting from people.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 19:38:34
In reply to Re: Oh, Partlycloudy..., posted by Susan47 on August 23, 2004, at 17:34:08
The few people I have told have laughed at the story until they realize I'm not.
I think I set impossibly high standards for myself. I have heard all my life to "ease up" and "get a grip". I can't turn down that emotional amplifier output. It's set on 11 right now.
Posted by JenStar on August 23, 2004, at 19:42:06
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721 » Susan47, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 14:26:47
Oh PC,
what an event! What a drive! You're not a failure and you're not a poop-head! It was a stressful trip and it took a toll on you. It doesn't mean anything about the root YOU.I can't even tell you (because it's embarrassing) how absolutely, terribly horrible I've been on car trips and international trips with my family. I turn into a monster! I have totally, totally done the same thing (crying, snotting, giving up) while driving in a foreign country. And I know others who have done the same!
It doesn't mean anything except that driving in a foreign country with jetlag and no maps and pouring rain and no direction and a spouse who is probably cranky himself is JUST STRESSFUL. (I have to say that, I guess, because otherwise I too am a failure, and I don't want to be one!) But seriously, that's a situation in which anyone would have a hard time.
Don't be too hard on yourself.
Are there some fun events or foods you can recall and tell us about? How was Wales? Did you buy any Doc Marten shoes?
JenStar
> I was doing the driving on our holiday in England. It was all I could do the keep on the correct side of the road, despite having lived over there for 7 years. My husband agreed to be my navigator. It worked swell, until we didn't know where we were going. I would send him in (to a pub or gas station) and he'd come back saying we were all set.
>
> Then he'd admit that he couldn't understand what the person was saying. Don't ask me why I couldn't have gone in and done the same - I made it his job and gave him a miserable time.
>
> So we're toodling around The Potteries, trying to find our bed and breakfast we had reserved a room at. It was "throwing it down" with rain - isn't that a great expression? My husband asked for directions 4 times. At one roundabout, I asked - north? south? what town am I headed for? - and he didn't know any better than I. I went around 3 times and took an exit just to get out of there. Pulled into the next street. Parked the car.
>
> Started screaming: I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this!!!! Hit my legs with my fists. Sobbed like there was no tomorrow. Had snot running all over, which I promptly rubbed into my jeans and t-shirt. Kept this up for 10 minutes or so. Stopped because I started gasping for breath. Started to drive again, and pulled into traffic on the wrong side of the road. Started screaming again. Everyone else on the road sat patiently and waited for me to get the heck out of there.
>
> 20 minutes later we made it to the bed and breakfast. I was shaking and stalled the car 3 times trying to park. Husband went in to tell the owners I was having a hard time. Came back with paper towels to wipe up the snot. My knees buckled when I got out of the car. Husband almost carried me in to the home and up the stairs to our room.
>
> I feel like such an utter failure and like I was a real poop head to my husband. I know he did not realize the extent of my anxiety until this happened. I thought I was getting better and I fell apart.
>
Posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 19:55:00
In reply to Re: Sorry, above for partlycloudy not 721, posted by JenStar on August 23, 2004, at 19:42:06
Meeting NikkiT2 - a true Babble veteran - for dinner in London.
Seeing the interior of Buckingham Palace for the first time.
Seeing the entire skyline of London from the London Eye, even if I couldn't bring myself to look out the window sometime.And Wales... let me dwell for a while on the beauty of Wales. So gentle in comparison to Scotland, yet a landscape soaked in blood as well. We travelled from Nantwich in Cheshire across to Oswestry, Newtown, Llandrindod Wells, through the Brecon Beacons, an amazing national park. The sheep outnumber the humans 3 to 1 .
I introduced my husband to my mum's brother. He's a forestry consultant and was knighted in 1996 for his service to the public by Prince Charles. He also has a war medal from WW2 (he was born and raised in Latvia in the Baltic region), and two almost useless gnarled hands from that war too. He has a gentle, caring soul, and is utterly incapable of expressing himself within the confines of 4 walls. He can only speak with ease while outside in the woods he loves more than his children. I love to walk with him across the land he knows so intimately.
We flew business class on airmiles.
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 16:53:04
In reply to The Best of Times: » JenStar, posted by partlycloudy on August 23, 2004, at 19:55:00
I adore Wales. That stretch of road north of Beddgelert is just gorgeous.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Travel is stressful in the best of times, and driving on the opposite side of the road isn't the best of times. My husband swore he'd never do it again when we got back home.
It sounds as if your husband was a sweetie about what happened?
Posted by partlycloudy on August 24, 2004, at 17:34:37
In reply to Re: The Best of Times: » partlycloudy, posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 16:53:04
Not only was my husband a sweetie, but on my way home from work today he called me on my cell phone to say he was having his first panic attack.
He couldn't find the remote for the TV.
Posted by Dinah on August 24, 2004, at 20:19:09
In reply to Re: The Best of Times: » Dinah, posted by partlycloudy on August 24, 2004, at 17:34:37
Well, that's a darned good thing to have a reminder of. You picked a winner as a husband. I think that's a much nicer memory to dwell on.
(And I can understand the TV remote thing. Remind him that breathing exercises are perfect for those times.)
This is the end of the thread.
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