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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 71 to 95 of 116. Go back in thread:
Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:28:53
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » Apperceptor, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 18:55:56
What I am saying is that whether or not it is "okay" to ask is dependent on the unique personalities and dynamic between you and your therapist. So is it "okay," yes, it's "okay," because I do think you should be allowed to say/ask whatever you want in therapy.
However, "allowed" does not mean you necessarily should. If your situation with your therapist makes it seem appropriate, great. However, please, in general, do not assume that your therapist is immune to whatever you say and will just be able to roll with it no matter what. Our difference between "respect" and "protect," it seems, is very small. I do not think you have a DUTY to your therapist unless something is in your therapeutic contract. Therefore, I don't see it as "protecting." But please afford your therapist the respect you would give to anyone else who may not be invincible.
I guess the picture issue at face value isn't what concerns me. I was initially more worried by what these desires for pictures seemed to imply...where they were being placed, how they were being treated, the relationship implicities that APPEARED to be being attached (note I did not say they were. This is only how it sounded to me). Having a picture is fine if that's all it is...I guess if a client asked me for a picture and I thought it was just because they enjoyed having a collection of pictures of those who've helped them, as a previous poster mentioned, I'd be happy to oblige. They already know what I look like, so no harm done.
However, some attitudes seemed initially to be a bit more.....I wish I had the right word. Maladaptive...romantic...fetishistic (not DSM sense, just everyday use). PLEASE, please, pleaaase do not take offense to the use of those words. They are NOT what I am trying to say, but I can't think of a better way to put it and I'm hoping you can get my message. In these cases, I think it might help the therapy process to keep in mind that your therapist is bound by extremely stringent ethical guidelines which, realistically, can be difficult to follow for some people at some times. I guess when I hear a client trying to get a therapist to break those guidelines, I feel a bit disappointed in the motives for therapy. ***HOWEVER*** - and I will not respond to posts about what I just said that ignore what I am about to say:
1. You do not ultimately have any of the responsibility to keep your therapist out of trouble with ethics boards. This is entirely up to him or her.
2. I, and I hope other current and future mental health professionals, would NEVER blame YOU, the client, should an ethical violation take place, regardless of what either you or the therapist may or may have not done to encourage it.
So really, do what you want. This is more of an appeal to compassion and approprium, rather than how "Apperceptor Feels Therapy Should Be, vol. 2."
There is also the issue that you may not anticipate how your requests may affect your therapists. This, again, is not your problem. However, do not be surprised if it doesn't go as planned.
Actual Example from 2 Years Ago (abbreviated, but factual):
<"blah blahs" are not to trivialize, just to edit the parts we are all too familiar with>
Client: Can we just go get something to eat?
Me: I'm sorry, XXX, I think (nice calm boundary talk blah blah).
Client: So you don't like me enough?
Me: I do, but (reiterate boundary blah blah)
Client: So you think I'm nice but you wouldn't date me?
Me: XXX, that isn't quite what I said (rephrase boundary blah)
Client: So are you a faggot?Now look what happens here. Just so happens, that yes, I am a gay male...a "faggot." How do I respond? For one, the client has used a term that has seriously offended me, and I didn't hesitate to professionally share that with her. But now what is my recompense? Yes, I am a "faggot," but am I comfortable telling clients that while I try to deal with current workplace bias and apply to graduate school? No, not in the least. Can I think of an excuse that won't be obviously scraping the barrel, right there on the spot? No. Have I been caught completely offguard and left stumbling? Yes. Do I continue seeing her? Yes. Has it adversely affected the therapeutic relationship? I try not to let it, I consult with supervisors, I do soul-searching, I remind myself that I am a professional, but......unfortunately, yes! Because I am still a human.
I hope my position is more clear. Please let me know if you'd like more flushed out.
Regards-
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:38:31
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » Fallen4myT, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:28:53
No, no need for more. I get what youre saying now. And for the record I have not nor would I ask my T for a picture..much too shy. Would I like one :) YES...Would I do bad things with it on the web say or other misuse no way. Would some people Oh yes I am with you there. I am also sorry that someone called you a name...how aweful. Thank you for clarifying your stance for me. I wish you had posted this first and I am sure you do too by now :) Wishing you a nice night.
Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:41:25
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » Apperceptor, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:38:31
You have a wonderful night as well! :-)
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:44:31
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 19:41:25
Thanks :)
Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 21:56:28
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 17:25:35
You know; it doesn't seem to me that you answered my questions, but it seems like you are working through something important and powerful for yourself from reading the other posts. Take gentle care, for you do carry such great responsibilities and for your very precious human self.
Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:22:43
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » emmaley, posted by rs on March 6, 2004, at 11:17:28
rs: :) :) :) :) :) Sounds like you have a therapist that you find a good fit for now, how wonderful.
Falls: Thank you for the invitation. :) :) :) Time and energy are hard to manage these days between full-time school, trying to make a living, seeing clients, and, of course, the most challenging one for me--taking care of myself. I am fond of this community, and will try to do my best.
Dinah: :) :) :) :) :) I respect what you have to say lot. So very honest.
Fallen, glad that you seemed to have worked some things out with this one. So sorry for you feel distressed, at least at one point.... :( Thank you for your reply to me.
Posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:25:48
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » emmaley, posted by gardenergirl on March 6, 2004, at 16:57:28
(How come I always manage to miss a few steps? I meant to include a reply to you in the post below.)
Gardengirl, :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:29:18
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 22:22:43
Thanks Emmaley I thought I had it fixed but I am not so sure :( time will tell no? :)
hugs
Posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 22:33:54
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley » emmaley, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:29:18
Fallen-
If you feel you've not been able to work through it, I think you've at least demonstrated, from the little I've seen, that you do have a wealth of personal resources.
You know, I would be surprised if there isn't some sort of article, task force, or something that addresses the sort of feelings you have for your therapist in a supportive yet realistic way. I'd be happy to pass anything along if I see it. Have you looked at the APA website?
I should also mention that my earlier references to ethical guidelines are based only on my knowledge of those for clinical and counseling doctoral psychologists. I would imagine they are very similar for other therapy professionals, but I cannot say for sure.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 22:42:39
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg/Emmaley, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 22:33:54
Thanks Apperceptor, :) thats nice of you but I like how I feel for my T and he is all for it. Tis a long story :) not worth posting. I was more referring to the home front and just my life in general. Like today, my husband is being a jerk and hasn't spoken to me all day and night. I only have him here as a human contact so that and health issues and stuff makes it a really hard day and thats crytic I know but I never post much on me in here.
Posted by tinydancer on March 7, 2004, at 8:21:25
In reply to Re: please be civil » tinydancer » Fallen4myT » obSession, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 1:40:41
I'm sorry if I violated your policies Dr. Bob. I really tried to be civil and not speak for anyone but myself and put emphasis on my own feelings. But I want to I apologize if anyone felt accused or put down.
> >> Thanks for everyone's efforts to be civil. Practice makes perfect? Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
>
> Posting something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by obSession on March 7, 2004, at 11:40:47
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 1:23:44
Thanks for your post Emm , you certainly expressed yourself really well without an undertone which I did ...and couldnt help!
what you said was brilliant and clearly expressed to me a sense of true professionalism , ethics and care.....I see that you have genuine empathy for human suffering....what I want to ask you is ....as someone working in the field , how are you able to deal with other working professionals whose perspectives are not different to yours but rather contradict yours and there views of "helping" is contradictory to the profession?
thanks :)
good to know there are still those out there like you....i agree with you totally that the client needs total freedom to express anything.
and if those thoughts are "I am finding myself wanting a picture of u" so be it because it is the clients frame of referance and should be respected..regardless..thanks :)
Posted by Apperceptor on March 7, 2004, at 14:21:47
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » emmaley, posted by obSession on March 7, 2004, at 11:40:47
My view of helping is not contradictory to the profession. For one thing, there are many approaches to therapy. Rational-emotive therapy, for example, is considerably more confrontational than I've been, yet it is widely accepted. Secondly, psychology is not all about therapy. Many psychologists do little to no therapy, with their emphasis on research, program planning and evalutation, and intellectual/personality/neuropsychological assessment. I believe less than 15% of graduates of my program go on to do therapy as their primary trade.
You're inferring much more than I feel I said. It is not easy to get into a clinical program, as I'm sure Gardner Girl can attest to. I recently assisted the admissions committee with their decisions, and part of the process is screening for individuals who may have less than ideal motives for entering a psychology program.
Posted by emmaley on March 7, 2004, at 17:40:38
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » emmaley, posted by obSession on March 7, 2004, at 11:40:47
Thanks for the kind words, obSession; I appreciate it.
You know, the question that you asked was a really good and tough one. It really depends on the role I play and the duties that come with the roles. In general, I try to fulfill my duties, and I try to stay open and respectful while doing so. Usually things work themselves out, one way or the other.
I hope my answer is addressing what you were asking. Sorry if it seems insufficient. :(
Loving thoughts,
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 19:38:27
In reply to Thank you, posted by emmaley on March 6, 2004, at 3:18:37
> Dinah's suggestion of "In Session" was tremendous.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 19:57:11
In reply to Re: please be civil/ SORRY CORRECTED, posted by Fallen4myT on March 6, 2004, at 19:10:33
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 19:57:31
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by tinydancer on March 7, 2004, at 8:21:25
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 20:02:12
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » Apperceptor, posted by confetti on March 6, 2004, at 16:28:05
> I don't believe your post was the "inappropriate" part of this thread.
I'm afraid the above could lead others to feel their posts were inappropriate.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Posting something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 20:05:02
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » Fallen4myT, posted by Apperceptor on March 6, 2004, at 18:34:17
> "The arrow shot by another's bow is only barbed by our own thoughts."
How about no arrows here, even if unbarbed? :-)
Bob
Posted by Apperceptor on March 7, 2004, at 21:19:17
In reply to Re: arrows, posted by Dr. Bob on March 7, 2004, at 20:05:02
I'm sorry, yes, I agree.
The main reason I shared that statement is because it's been of great help in my own experience...in everyday life, where we don't have a Dr. Bob to moderate our responses.
It's from Sunday School, by the way...I guess that wasn't all nonsense :-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 18:29:21
In reply to Re: arrows » Dr. Bob, posted by Apperceptor on March 7, 2004, at 21:19:17
> > "The arrow shot by another's bow is only barbed by our own thoughts."
>
> The main reason I shared that statement is because it's been of great help in my own experience...in everyday lifeI can see that, but it may be less effective coming from the archer. :-)
Bob
Posted by obSession on March 10, 2004, at 18:11:26
In reply to Re: thanks for the heads up, gg » obSession, posted by emmaley on March 7, 2004, at 17:40:38
thanks for the message emm :)
yes it does answer your question...thanks :)
Posted by lonelygirl on March 20, 2004, at 11:14:11
In reply to Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by tinydancer on March 2, 2004, at 12:30:37
Wowwwww... I am so jealous of those of you who have pics -- and especially Pegasus (your video sounds so sweet!!!). I have searched and searched for a picture of mine, with no luck :( His bio is on the school's web site (he is at my school's student health center), but they don't have any pics, and he doesn't advertise. I would definitely not be comfortable about asking him for a pic, though I want one so badly.
I do have a small collection of things he wrote on, including some appointment slips where he wrote down the date and time of my appointment, and his name (I have one that says "Dr. [lastname]," one that just says "[lastname]," and one that just says "[firstname]," in chronological order). When I went for the initial consultation (before I knew that I would be continuing with him specifically), he was not yet licensed, and we both had to sign a statement about him working under the supervision of a licensed psychologist. So, I have his signature (which is soooo messy that one would never be able to figure out his name if it wasn't also typed). Also, at that time, he did not have his own business cards. He had cards from the health center (with their phone number, URL, etc.) with a blank spot where he had to write in his own name. I have noticed that he now has his own business cards with his name printed on them, so I guess mine is a "limited edition" :).
P.S. I have actually read every post in this entire thread, but I guess the issue has pretty much been beaten to death; I don't even know if anyone is still reading it at all... Oddly enough, I found Apperceptor's post somewhat helpful (though of course a bit offensive). I think it was sort of like a reality check for me. For some reason, in a way I am comforted/relieved by this kind of statement of brutal honesty, even if it may sting.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 20, 2004, at 21:18:46
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T?, posted by lonelygirl on March 20, 2004, at 11:14:11
Lol I bet if you try hard enough you can find a picture, Try newpapers too OLD ones....and also try more than Google..even the school site...old yearbooks... Its nice to have one and fun.,.,
Posted by lonelygirl on March 20, 2004, at 21:38:41
In reply to Re: Do you have a picture of your T? » lonelygirl, posted by Fallen4myT on March 20, 2004, at 21:18:46
I'm not sure about that... I have tried the school's web site and they don't have photos of the psychologists... What kind of old newspapers? I don't think he has ever advertised, because he just got his Ph.D. in 2003 and has been working at the student health center all along (they bring in enough people that he would not have to advertise himself). And what do you mean, old yearbooks? I think he went to high school in a different state and I don't know hoe I could get ahold of a yearbook (even if I could figure out where he went to school) without, well, stalking him... Have any suggestions? I would love to have a picture of him.
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention before: I have 2 messages from him on my answering machine.
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