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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
I showed up at her office early, and she came out with the questionnaire on a clipboard. And it was the one I was hoping not to get. You had to answer 28 questions by scoring them how often something happened between 0 and 100. I'm *awful* at those things. I never know what a hundred should be! So I told her that I wasn't sure how to answer - more than once I told her that I wasn't good at these things. I gave her an example to see if she could clarify. She was vague and finally said that that's just the way the test was. It used these scales and I just had to guess.
I thought maybe it was like the Rorshach where how you interpret the instructions spoke as much to who you were as your actual answers. But I don't think that was the case here. My neurologist was very understanding when I froze on the pain ratings. I didn't know whether five should be the worst pain I ever felt from a headache, the worst pain I've ever felt, or the worst pain I can imagine feeling given descriptions of really bad pain. The neurologist answered very helpfully.
So I was left with the clipboard, and near to tears already because I hadn't been able to explain what I needed her to clarify. So I figured I'd do it like a test. Answer the questions I knew, and then go back to the rest. Well that took care of a very few. And there were some questions that were worded so that I didn't even really know what they were asking. It would depend on where the emphasis in the sentence was or something. But she had told me to guess, so guess I did, being the good girl I am. But I was definitely tearful by the time I handed her the questionaire.
For example. It said some people stare off into space, losing all track of time. How often do you do this. Well.... Do they mean all the minutes in a day, or all waking minutes? Or do they mean how many days a week do you find yourself doing that sometime during the day? It would make a big difference in how you answer, don't you think? If they mean the former, I can't see how you can put down a very high number, since you also have to work, sleep, eat, and go to the restroom. And either could be valid interpretations. I guessed the former. And there was one question where I could make a case for 0, 100, or many points in between, depending on how I interpreted it.
So after she scores the test, I ask her if we can go over it verbally, so that we could both understand it better. She really didn't seem to care for the idea, but she agreed. I didn't find that she shed a lot of light onto the system. Then she apparently had a problem with my liking of precision in words. So I'd describe something as x, and she'd repeat back that I felt a, and I'd say, no - x, not a. Because when you're describing something, a slight difference in words means a lot. Or I think so anyway. She started questioning me about perfectionism, and black and white thinking. I left well before my hour was up.
I am never ever going to subject myself to this again. My therapist knows and understands me. He may not like me and he may get exasperated, but he understands why I do what I do. Depending on his mood he might shake his head and say "Oh, Dinah" or he might yell. But he'd always understand. I'm never going to put myself into someone's hands who doesn't understand ever again.
Posted by judy1 on January 20, 2004, at 0:44:23
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
wow do I ever understand how difficult it is the first session with someone- especially when you compare them to your present therp with whom you have years of history. do you think you simply didn't click with this therp? it sounds like you felt judged- do you think this would happen with any other therp, or did her personality rub you the wrong way? I ask because I went through so many pdocs and therps after spending years with my pdoc, and initially I would get incredibly anxious so that when I walked in I was in such a horrendous state nobody could have gotten through to me. I think eventually I started to calm down and I did give second chances, but even then I didn't click until my present pdoc and therp. hopefully this made sense- I guess what I'm trying to get across is that she simply might not be the right therp for you (although after all you have been through to set this up, I can see why you would want to go back). I hope the next session is a little easier for you.
take care, judy
Posted by MARKED on January 20, 2004, at 5:29:35
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
GOOD ON YOU.....
you have to find someone that UNDERSTANDS and provides help for YOU, not just to be treated how the textbook says. We all are human, and should feel we are dealt with in that respect.
Although it gets annoying finding someone that will listen or allow you to express yourself how you know how, you did the best thing by leaving. Stick to those that you gain positive enlightenment.Good Luck :)
by the way I totally understand....I have been critised by all my psychdocs (other than one I see now, who is a psychiatric nurse, teacher & group lecturer). Since i have very good science and psychological background having studied Cognitive Science most fail to treat me like I have a problem. They prefer to belittle me, as if they think 'cos i know better that I should feel better. Follow your heart, and only those you trust.
> I am never ever going to subject myself to this again. My therapist knows and understands me. He may not like me and he may get exasperated, but he understands why I do what I do. Depending on his mood he might shake his head and say "Oh, Dinah" or he might yell. But he'd always understand. I'm never going to put myself into someone's hands who doesn't understand ever again.
>
Posted by Penny on January 20, 2004, at 8:25:58
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
((((Dinah))))
I'm so sorry you had to experience that. I know what you mean about those tests - it's impossible to answer them the way that *they* want you to, as you and 'they' don't think alike. In cases like that I try to convince myself that whatever my answers are doesn't really matter anyway... I had lots of similar tests to do when I saw my pdoc the first time, but he didn't really pay much attention to them, making me wonder what the whole point was!
It does frustrate me, though, that you keep having to deal with these folks who clearly lack compassion or a talent for putting others at ease. Perhaps it's just me, but it seems that if someone is going to work in mental health, they should have endless patience and they should be able to put themselves in the shoes of the client, no matter how much they may disagree with their way of thinking. What purpose did it serve for her to not even try to really understand your point of view? I'm not a mental health professional (yet) but I find myself trying to see things through the eyes of others when dealing with people who may not think the same way I do.
I felt sort of like you did when I was hospitalized - for all of those nurses and doctors and behavioral health techs to have worked in mental health for as long as some of them had, it was amazing to me how completely IGNORANT they could be as to how their patients thought. They wouldn't take the fears of certain patients seriously. After talking to one nurse, I went back to my room in tears feeling quite suicidal because he had managed to convince me that I was a terrible person for not realizing how much my mother was probably hurting since I was in the hospital. One of the behavioral health techs informed me that I wasn't helping another patient by trying to help her, and he didn't do it in the most tactful way, and I ended up in my room again, in tears. Just wonderful - people who don't understand.
Wish I could say something that was actually helpful, Dinah, but not sure I can. Just know I'm thinking of you.
P
Posted by gardenergirl on January 20, 2004, at 8:49:56
In reply to Re: Tests and scales » Dinah, posted by Penny on January 20, 2004, at 8:25:58
Sorry for the dual response, but I have to run soon and wanted to get this out.
Dinah,
I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I admire you for continuing to try despite how difficult it is for you.On the other hand, thank you for sharing your experience, because I have to give my clients tests when they come in for the first time. Now I'll make sure that I am available to answer questions and I won't assume that everything is "okay" while they are testing.
Penny, are you planning to become a mental health professional? Good for you for using your empathy in everyday situations. I tend to forget sometimes, until I remind myself to step back and ask myself, "how would I treat this person if he/she were a client?"Take care, both of you!
gg
Posted by tinydancer on January 20, 2004, at 9:42:18
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
Whats the name of this test? Just curious
Posted by Penny on January 20, 2004, at 10:34:47
In reply to Re: Tests and scales, Dinah and Penny, posted by gardenergirl on January 20, 2004, at 8:49:56
> Penny, are you planning to become a mental health professional? Good for you for using your empathy in everyday situations. I tend to forget sometimes, until I remind myself to step back and ask myself, "how would I treat this person if he/she were a client?"
I am planning to get my MSW and become a child therapist - at least, that's the plan for right now.
It's hard to not let your own emotions/thoughts/feelings get too tied in when dealing with other people. I can't always put myself in the other person's shoes, but, especially when dealing with people I find difficult, I try to see it from their perspective. And I, personally, think this is an important skill to have when dealing with people with mental illness. I know none of us are perfect, and I know that we can't always see things from another's point of view, but at least if we can recognize that perhaps we aren't being objective enough when dealing with certain others...well, I guess I think it allows you to empathize with others. It's something I especially do with children - because it's hard sometimes to remember what it was like being a child!
And it frustrates me that there are mental health 'professionals' out there - like some of them that those of us on this board have dealt with! - who don't even recognize their inability to empathize with others as a shortcoming! ARGH!!!
P
Posted by Poet on January 20, 2004, at 12:44:09
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
Ugh, I hate those kind of tests. Especially when they have the same question worded differently to try to trip you up.
I'm with you, my answers would depend on how I interpret the question. For me, anxiety in social situations, can be 0 to 100 depending on the situation. A party where I know a bunch of people, no problem, walking into a group of strangers, big problem.
I don't blame you for not wanting to go back.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 13:34:38
In reply to Re: Tests and scales » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 20, 2004, at 12:44:09
I talked to my therapist today, and he did what he is best at. He had me laughing at what happened yesterday by the time I left. He helped me understand that yes, I was being a bit "scrupulous" about how to take the test, and yes, that's what I *do*, but that she didn't know that about me yet and didn't know how to help me with it. And the things she said, he told me that she was using too technical a jargon that sounded more negative than it was, and explained what she meant. I still didn't like it, but after he had used it enough with me during the session, I could laugh with him instead of getting upset.
Perhaps most importantly, he reminded me that we had many of the same sort of problems for years at the beginning of therapy and that it certainly wasn't easy. He asked me what it was about him that had me keep coming back, instead of running as I usually do. Part of the answer is that there was always a gentleness about him that made me feel safe. And perhaps a bigger part was that I had no choice. There was no one else to help me, and better the devil I knew than starting all over. Well, if he had been like biofeedback guy, I would have run anyway.
Next week, maybe we'll talk about how I run too easily, and why I have trouble getting along with people. I may be giving him too much credit in thinking that that's what he wanted to gently introduce to me so I'd think about it, but not push on me when I really needed support more than probing.
Funny thing was that I had been wondering something similar. I had been thinking about all the storminess of our early years, and wondering how much of it was because of my difficulty expressing myself verbally and his difficulty (which others apparently share) of understanding me. Or maybe my difficulty in understanding him, which I also have with others. Anyway, cross-communication. Or maybe that he's learned all my little quirks and how not to activate them. I dunno. Something to talk about next time.
And I feel better than I did.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 13:37:28
In reply to Re: Tests and scales, Dinah and Penny, posted by gardenergirl on January 20, 2004, at 8:49:56
Thanks for telling me that, Gardenergirl. :) It makes me feel good to know that my distressing experience will help others (at least the somewhat obsessive others).
Posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 14:52:27
In reply to Re: Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 13:34:38
I'm glad that he made you feel better about the situation. What is it about that tests that just make people taking them feel frustrated? Is it the fact that they are so standardized, with no right or wrong answer? I remember I was going to take the MMPI 2 and I tried to cheat. I tried to find a copy online or find a book with a copy, anything with hints. I tried to find a way to ace a personality test. Go figure. I laugh looking back, but doesn't that say more about my personality than any test ever could?
But, it's really great that your therapist and you have such a wonderful relationship and that he can have you laughing about parts of this situation.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 20, 2004, at 15:42:23
In reply to Tests and scales, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 0:11:53
Dinah,
Did you feel 100% comfortable and at ease with your current therapist when you first met him?
I'm just throwing out the possibility that some people at first do not always connect with you right away, but after a certain amount of time, as you feel more comfortable with what is going on, you begin to accept the process a bit more.
I'm wondering if maybe you could give this therapist, say, 5 sessions and then see how you feel? But perhaps you have done this all before and feel weary, something which is completely understandable.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 19:05:42
In reply to Re: Tests and scales » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 14:52:27
I'm glad we have that relationship as well; he makes a great secure base. And while he gets annoyed with me at times, he's always very supportive when I'm really upset.
I didn't look up the MMPI before I took the test, but I did after I took the test. And after the psychologist refused to show me my scores, and only gave me my elevated scales with reluctance, I reconstructed the entire thing on a spreadsheet - all 500+ questions, complete with scoring protocol and T corrections (I think it was "T"). I *always* thought that said more about me than the test itself.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 19:08:21
In reply to Re: Tests and scales, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 20, 2004, at 15:42:23
I think this therapist is not mean or anything - not at all like biofeedback guy. She just doesn't understand me and put her foot in her mouth a whole lot. And no, I didn't have a good, trusting relationship with my current therapist right away. But I don't have time to work through it with this one - it took me five years! :)
The man is a saint. (Not really. But he did put up with me.)
Posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 19:43:39
In reply to Re: Tests and scales » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 19:08:21
But he did put up with me
*I really doubt he just put up with you. It sounds like you know from the get-go whether or not someone is to your liking. (As was the case with Bio-feedback guy) You got good vibes from this therapist. (Or at the very least didn't get bad ones :) Stick it out. You aren't looking to form a relationship, but who knows what will happen. Those tests are highly frustrating! For everyone who takes them! And you have your therapist to support you. So, it seems you are one of the few who actually has a therapist for therapy! CONGRATS! Maybe I'll look into that :)
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 20:12:57
In reply to Re: Tests and scales » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 19:43:39
grin - She actually said that's the only reason she was willing to take me on. Because I have a therapist for therapy. lol.
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