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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
I have just finished with a therapist that was available to me anytime. I have PTSD and have flashbacks and nightmares. In the last year I never called my T after office hours but I knew I could. The new T says if I need anything in between sessions I should go to the ER...right!!! My old T said he knew poking into past trauma was like walking on a tightrope and its much more freeing if you have a safety net and that is where he comes in. It sounds like most of you have the freedom to call your T in between sessions if you need grounding or whatever. Please let me know! I'm not sure I feel safe if I can't call if I need to.
Posted by fallsfall on December 27, 2003, at 18:17:49
In reply to Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
My former therapist was on a beeper, but then her group changed to having one therapist "on call" - so if you called after hours you could talk to a therapist, but it could well be someone you had never met. That didn't seem helpful to me (unless I needed to go to the hospital) - and I never did call to talk to the therapist "on call". But by that point I had a pretty good set of coping skills, so I could usually hold on until the morning or through the weekend. If I didn't have the coping skills, it would have been more difficult.
My current therapist carries a beeper (but he doesn't "guarantee" to have it all of the time - so if I called him after hours and he didn't call me back, I should go to the emergency room if I needed help immediately). I did call him once on a Saturday. He was at a conference that weekend in a nearby city. So he couldn't see me like I wanted him to, but he did talk to me and told me that I could call him again that weekend if I needed a short chat - and that we "would talk about it on Monday". I have also called him during business hours and he gets back to me that day.
I think that if you know what your therapist's policy is, that you can find a way to work with that. Maybe you can talk to your therapist about some coping strategies that you can use between 3AM and 8AM until he comes into work.
What I find unacceptable is when you don't know if they are going to call you or not (either because they aren't reliable about calling back, or because you don't know when they check their answering machine - maybe they don't work on Tuesday, so if you call on Tuesday you won't get a call back until Wednesday - I would have a problem with that if I didn't know not to expect the call back until Wednesday).
Since you are used to different support than this therapist is offering, I would suggest that you talk to your therapist about how you can best adapt to survive with the new strategy. It will take some getting used to, I'm sure, but he should be able to help you figure it out.
Posted by Dinah on December 27, 2003, at 21:22:11
In reply to Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
Yes he does, although not always quickly or well. He's gotten a lot better over the years.
I'm not sure if I could tolerate a strict no call policy. Strict boundaries tend to make me frantic, while permeable ones somehow enhance my self discipline. While I can count on one hand (probably with a few fingers left over) the number of times I've called him before 8:30am, after 6pm, on weekends or on holidays, it gives me a sense of security to know I *can*. So much so that he always tells me to call him on vacation or on Christmas. :) He knows I won't, of course.
Posted by DaisyM on December 28, 2003, at 0:27:42
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by Dinah on December 27, 2003, at 21:22:11
Always and soon! Of course, I've never called on a weekend but he has said I should if I need to. I've had some bad weeks when we've stirred up past trauma and ended up talking to him almost everyday.
One night I called around 7 to tell him I couldn't talk myself into going home (I was at the office) and he basically made me "take him with me" most of the way there, via my cell phone. He's been pretty great that way.
That said, it is still hard for me to call and bother him. I always end up apologizing, but I'm getting better about it.
I agree with the others. Ask him what his policy is and what you should expect. I would also explain what would be helpful for you so you can reach a compromise if necessary.
Posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 11:00:17
In reply to Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
I find this policy strange because I think there's alot of middle ground between feeling that the opportunity to talk to your therapist would help, and being so bad off you need to be in an ER. I think I'd have to be sitting in a motel room with a loaded pistol pointed at my head before I'd consider myself a suitable candidate for an emergency room.
My therapist never expained her policy about phone calls and I never asked. I did infer, from the fact that she didn't raise the subject, that she really didn't like being called. (she certainly also never offered me her home phone number although it's easy enough to find her in the book) Also she is only in her office 3 days a week and I didn't know how much she checked her messages. During a really down period she finally figured out how averse I was to bothering her. Therefore her policy with me became that I should call her whenever I felt like talking to her (with no qualifiers as to "need"). This policy works for both of us because she knows I pretty much would never call; my notion of what is a dire emergency is so different from that of most people. Whenever I'm not doing very well she continually reinforces the message that it's ok to call her.
I don't think she checks her office messages more than once a day so if I really need to reach her I guess I'd have to call her at home. In several years of seeing her I've only called her once - on a Sunday after hearing that sar, a former poster here, had committed suicide. She wasn't home but she did call me back as soon as she got home and heard my message.
I think I may be at the far end of the spectrum with regard to my hesitancy to call. My former therapist actually used to call me when he knew I wasn't doing well. He said it was because he didn't think I would ever be the one to initiate contact.
Mair
Posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 11:07:07
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 11:00:17
It's funny in this day of cell phones that all therapists don't just hand out cell phone numbers. That's the only number I use with mine. I'm not sure how often he checks his office machine, and while I could find his home number I'd feel truly awful using it. I even use it for routine scheduling calls. And I can reach him through it even when he's out of town. And he uses it when he calls me, even for routine scheduling calls. I have caller ID. I think he may have a separate personal cell phone and this one is dedicated to his business.
Posted by zenhussy on December 28, 2003, at 11:30:45
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 11:00:17
Posted by Speaker on December 28, 2003, at 13:27:57
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 11:00:17
I'm with you, I never have felt like I was in an emergency...hospital state. My old T consistantly reinforced his availability in between sessions and once I did call. I got his answering machine and it said in case of emergency call this number...my next session I told him I had called and gotten the answering machine but didn't leave a message. He asked why I didn't call the emergency number and I said nobody was dying so I didn't think it was an emergency...I have lived through the terminal illness of my husband and a daughter who was critically injured so my definition of emergency is also different than most. He changed his message on his machine and it now says in case of an emergency or an immediate need please call said number. Soooooo all of that to say it's not like I call in between sessions but if this therapy is a team effort as the T says, it must be nice to only be on the team one hour a week with not thought of the team in between. Am I overeacting? It seems like such an important part to me I'm wondering if this new T is a good fit even though I find him easy to talk with and very insightful.
Posted by zenhussy on December 28, 2003, at 13:49:00
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 28, 2003, at 13:27:57
>I'm with you, I never have felt like I was in an emergency...hospital state. My old T consistantly reinforced his availability in between sessions and once I did call. I got his answering machine and it said in case of emergency call this number...my next session I told him I had called and gotten the answering machine but didn't leave a message. He asked why I didn't call the emergency number and I said nobody was dying so I didn't think it was an emergency...I have lived through the terminal illness of my husband and a daughter who was critically injured so my definition of emergency is also different than most. He changed his message on his machine and it now says in case of an emergency or an immediate need please call said number. Soooooo all of that to say it's not like I call in between sessions but if this therapy is a team effort as the T says, it must be nice to only be on the team one hour a week with not thought of the team in between. Am I overeacting? It seems like such an important part to me I'm wondering if this new T is a good fit even though I find him easy to talk with and very insightful.
Speaker,
Firstly my deepest condolences about your losses. That absolutely can colour what you perceive to be an emergency situation. Your former T sounds wonderul to have changed his message. What an accomodating and perceptive thing to do for his clients. Kudos to him.
As for overreacting? I don't think so. It sounds like having the option and being reassured that that option exists is important to you. If it is important to you then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
Just reading your words about this being a team effort and how nice it must be to only spend an hour a week on the team pierces my heart. It sounds very lonely and resentful. I'm not saying you are those things but telling you my perceptions of what I read between the lines.
Easy to talk to and insightful are great T qualities but can be found in many different therapists. Over the years I've had so many different therapists that it would be amusing to list their different phone/contact policies. Some were happy to take my money and tear me open one hour a week but wouldn't conceive of allowing a client in pain to contact them between sessions. Ugh. I do NOT need that in my life. I didn't ever last long with a therapist who wasn't available after hours or didn't have some sort of back up person.
Not that I have had to call after hours often but in the past fifteen years I've probably had ten middle of the night phone conversations with different therapists. I consider those phone calls to be the difference between life and death in my situation. Not that every late night call was a suicidal one. It was more of the consistency of someone being there for me.
My situation consists of complex ptsd. I experienced a series of incidents over a month of my life when I was a teen and from the total isolation I felt (and some was not just my perception but true isolation) I now know I need someone to be there for me whenever I might need them. It doesn't mean I call my pdoc or T for every bump in the road but when bigger things are coming up now I know I can call them and am learning to trust them when they encourage me to call.
Guess I'm in a little more unstable place if I'm with people who are encouraging me to call them anytime.
digression over
zenhussy
Posted by antigua on December 28, 2003, at 14:46:14
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by zenhussy on December 28, 2003, at 13:49:00
Mine encourages me to call and always calls me back, even if it takes her until 11 at night. During particularly difficult times I can call whenever I need to. What I've found is that I usually call her when I'm obsessing over something from our session, or some memory pops up, so that I can get past it and know we will deal w/it in the next session. Otherwise, I will obsess for the entire week and I'm worthless.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 14:52:40
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 28, 2003, at 13:27:57
I gotta agree with Zenhussy. And I usually call for the same reasons Antigua does.
It would be a deal breaker for me, I think. Unless there were no therapists who accepted calls between sessions.
But that's me. I guess it has different amounts of importance to different people.
Can you talk to him about it?
Posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 16:46:12
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 28, 2003, at 13:27:57
I feel like I'm treading on shaky ground here because I don't know your T, but I'd be awfully bothered if my T gave me the "go to the ER" message as an alternative to a phone call. My T once told me that if I was in danger and I did call her, she'd make immediate arrangements to meet me at the hospital, which to me, is a whole lot better than simply telling you to go to the hospital on your own.
I think Ts sometimes step around this issue gingerly with a new patient because they don't really know from the outset if you're going to be the kind of patient who calls all the time, or one who doesn't call when she should. I think this is a mistake. If someone calls too frequently, the T can deal with it as the issue arises. But at least to me, it seems to send entirely the wrong message to suggest that the option of calling is simply not there.
Mair
Posted by crushedout on December 28, 2003, at 18:52:11
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by fallsfall on December 27, 2003, at 18:17:49
My T calls me back, usually pretty quickly, although I've never called her on the weekend or in the evening. I still think she would if I called then.I agree with what someone said about it may just be because you're new and he doesn't know how much you're going to call, but I also agree that there are better ways of dealing with that when it arises.
I think the insensitivity of the statement your T made (hello? emergency room?) along with the no-call policy would be a dealbreaker for me. I would confront him before I fired him, though. Easier said than done, I know. I feel like saying this is insensitive, and it must be really hard for you to deal with your conflicting feelings about him.
Posted by crushedout on December 28, 2003, at 18:53:01
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by mair on December 28, 2003, at 16:46:12
Posted by Speaker on December 28, 2003, at 19:57:07
In reply to Re: Does Your T Call You Back?? » Speaker, posted by Dinah on December 28, 2003, at 14:52:40
Thanks to all of you who answered...I began to think I was wanting more than what is reasonable. Since I have only worked with one T and am starting with a new one I don't expect everything to be the same (in fact I would be shocked) but there are a few core safety factors for me. After you have shared what your T's have done it is much like my old T did and the availability for contact will be a deal breaker. I have an appt. Mon. (tomorrow) and will be addressing this subject. I am hoping I will be quick on my feet as I often get out of a conversation an think of the good things to say on the way home :). Thanks again to all of you...heavens if I would overeact!!!! You are all great!
Posted by pegasus on December 29, 2003, at 16:31:02
In reply to Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
This is something I've been asking possible new therapists lately. I think for me, no possibility of contact between sessions would be a deal breaker. Sorry you're in this spot with your new T, Speaker.
My ex-therapist invited me to call him whenever things were getting overwhelming for me. He would check his messages throughout the day, and would call me back as soon as he could. He didn't check at night, but I was welcome to leave a message, and he always got back to me right away in the morning. We actually discussed how sometimes just having left a message would help. He would also call me back on weekends, but not as promptly.
Posted by Karen_kay on December 29, 2003, at 20:14:22
In reply to Does Your T Call You Back??, posted by Speaker on December 27, 2003, at 16:27:26
Hiya! My therapist never calls me back when it matters. It seems he has a radar for this. When I want to talk about "petty" things, that we can resolve in a matter of seconds, he calls me back within the hour. When I really need to talk to him, to schedule an appointment or talk about something important, he never returns my call. But, I only have an office number. And, I wouldn't dream of calling him at home, even if I did have an emergency. But, this isn't something I would want to bring up. For if I did, it would show I was making some sort of progress. And I wouldn't want to ask him for help, or progress in any way. Heaven Forbid!!
Posted by Speaker on December 29, 2003, at 21:47:47
In reply to Better late than never? » Speaker, posted by Karen_kay on December 29, 2003, at 20:14:22
Karen,
Your great! My old T was really good about calling back but it seemed when I really needed to talk he was between clients and had five min. but if it was something little he was chatty...go figure maybe they get the radar thing in Psych 101. ;).
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