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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2002, at 5:16:11
Hi all,
I picked this off the Med board, out of a long anti-psychiatry sort of post (that prompted a block). Dinah, I hope you don't mind me excerpting a bit of it for discussion."Psychology by and large is the invention of man to cover the shame of his own sinful behavior. If a disorderly child can be said to be "ill" with ADHD, then he cannot be held responsible for his actions. After all, can a person with Alzheimer´s be blamed for contracting his disease?"
This struck be as a good expression of the attitude of people I grew up with in the conservative midwest. I've since moved to California and had lots and lots of therapy. I try to explain this type of attitude to my therapist, and she doesn't seem to get it. She must be native Californian :)
It's so hard to un-learn that conditioning.
It just often strikes me everything I've tried to learn in therapy is so totally at odds with the mindset I was raised in. I suppose that's true for all kinds of dysfunctional childhoods, but it still makes me sad. There's such a gulf in attitudes. I've tried so hard to learn a more humanistic and compassionate attitude, but some of the old duty-driven guilt-trip is still there.
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2002, at 13:51:31
In reply to Psychology vs Sin, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2002, at 5:16:11
I was lucky I guess. My parents had good reason to believe in the reality of mental illness. They just refused to believe that I could have it. My mother thought that if I just prayed, everything would be fine. My father thought that all I needed was to go out and party more and everything would be just fine.
To their credit, when I started talking suicide as a reclusive and seriously depressed preteen they did bring me to a psychiatrist. Then spent the next year denying that there was anything wrong with me that wasn't caused by the other parent. And making sure I heard their version of what the psychiatrist said. Sigh.
Then I guess I validated their beliefs by starting to act as if I was okay even if I wasn't, and developing the false self that cripples me to this day. See they said, she was always okay, just looking for attention.
So even parents who have awareness of psychological illness are likely to deny it in their own families (not to mention themselves).
Sorry for the rant, and I don't even know if I adressed your question. :(
Posted by Tabitha Ðòñë ƒ£îþþëÐ on September 8, 2002, at 16:59:09
In reply to Re: Psychology vs Sin, posted by Dinah on September 8, 2002, at 13:51:31
Yikes, Dinah. Pulled in 2 undesirable directions. I can't imagine all that stuff going on as a teen. I minimally kept up appearances as a teen, didn't crack up til after leaving home.
When I was going thru my early med experiences (in my early 30s) misdiagnosed, and trying different meds, etc, my mom & brother regularly hinted that I just needed to go to their church. My brother suggests that still, even after my mom killed herself while still a devoted churchgoer. At her funeral I thought this would blow the lid off the family denial, and finally they would talk about my mom's depression. But it didn't. THey just didn't mention the cause of death at all.
I've made it easy for my family to deny "mental illness" by moving away. Now they can say California made me crazy :) Actually as I say that, I realize that after my suicide attempt in college, and my cousin's suicide attempt in college, my Mom blamed the college. Guess it's awfully threatening to admit it's in the family.
Actually one on one my family members will talk about it. They just don't like to.
Oh, it's sad, the distrust of psychiatry and psychology. I don't get where it comes from. My mom of course didn't get treatment because of it. Now my brother is killing himself with overeating. Surely some therapy could help.
And it's still hard for me to admit to people that I'm in therapy. It's like a shameful secret to me, years after it ought to be publicly acceptable.
Posted by madison88 on September 8, 2002, at 18:31:57
In reply to Re: Psychology vs Sin, posted by Tabitha Ðòñë ƒ£îþþëÐ on September 8, 2002, at 16:59:09
I had major issues going to therapy a few years ago. i expected the therapist to rant and rave good and evil and condemn me for everything from the thoughts i had to the few behaviors i acted out. as a result i spent most the the first year in therapy in absolute silence.
My father is a pastor who sees everthing in black and white, and i was taught accordingly. i was in for a shock, because even though my therapist was a devout Baptist (horror of horrors for a self-proclaimed Buddhist like me)she never judged me one way or another.
my dad believes that if only i take my meds religiously i will be cured. if i have a bad day, or week, or year, it's my fault b/c i'm not following dr's orders. (even though i always have.)
that somebody would blame me for having or displaying the disorders i have makes my blood boil. that's why i like the studies that come out saying disorders are caused by this malfunction in the brain, or this or that circuit overfiring. even though i know free will fits in there somewhere, these biological studies, it seems, relieve me of the blame. i don't believe there exists such a thing as sin. it is too simplistic a notion that doesn't accurately describe our actions in the real world. i've got plenty more to say about that but i will stop there.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2002, at 19:32:41
In reply to Re: Psychology vs Sin, posted by Tabitha Ðòñë ƒ£îþþëÐ on September 8, 2002, at 16:59:09
I'm so sorry about your mother, Tabitha.
It's incredible the twisting and turning that people will do to keep that shield of denial up. My therapist says I'm the sanest person in my family because I recognize the reality that something's wrong. I'm really proud of myself for recognizing and admitting that and for getting help so that hopefully my son won't suffer as much for my condition. So I proudly admit that I'm in therapy. I guess I'm slightly less proud that I'm probably a lifer :), but it helps me to function as well as I can.
I hope you can find that same pride in yourself. Yes! I need help and I know it! That puts me way ahead of a lot of people.
Posted by trouble on September 15, 2002, at 19:47:09
In reply to Psychology vs Sin, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2002, at 5:16:11
> "Psychology by and large is the invention of man to cover the shame of his own sinful behavior. If a disorderly child can be said to be "ill" with ADHD, then he cannot be held responsible for his actions. After all, can a person with Alzheimer´s be blamed for contracting his disease?"
>
> This struck be as a good expression of the attitude of people I grew up with in the conservative midwest.>>> It's so hard to un-learn that conditioning.
>>> Does this sound familiar to anyone?
why yes tabitha, i expect it does (laughs).
the only part i can't relate to is the assertion that it is hard to un-learn that conditioning, it isn't. but they have to want to.trouble
>
>
Posted by Tabitha Šëëš Ýôú on September 17, 2002, at 2:54:51
In reply to Re: Psychology vs Sin, posted by trouble on September 15, 2002, at 19:47:09
> the only part i can't relate to is the assertion that it is hard to un-learn that conditioning, it isn't. but they have to want to.
>The un-learning you're talking about is just adopting an oppositional position. Easy, yes, but you're still stuck in the pattern.
Posted by Medusa on October 8, 2002, at 6:37:51
In reply to Psychology vs Sin, posted by Tabitha on September 8, 2002, at 5:16:11
heh, I missed this before.
I made the mistake of telling my parents I was seeing a therapist, when I was in college. Since it wasn't a +christian+ therapist, ANYthing she said (or didn't say) must have been very bad, from their perspective.
Basically I needed to remove sin from my life, exorcise Satan's stronghold, etc, and then I would be free from depression.
When I eventually deconverted from xianity, I thought THAT might relief the pressure. It did, in some ways, but a life long of depressive habits and chemical imbalance can't be settled by realising that Jesus ain't coming to get me anytime soon. (Drats.)
I don't know, it didn't seem too too hard to say yes to therapy. It +did+ take me a long time to believe that my first therapist believed what I told her about my family background. Truth is stranger than fiction ...
how're you doing with this lately, Tabitha?
-M
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