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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 30 to 54 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jost on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:42
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » Gabbi~G, posted by corafree on July 23, 2006, at 21:29:19
Corafree, I said yesterday that I was sorry if you felt attacked.
I'm also sorry that my apology didn't help your bad feelings.
I'm not sure what I can do, but if there are specific things, please let me know.
I hope that it did not seem that I attacked anyone. Certainly that wasn't my intention.
Jost
Posted by corafree on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:42
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » corafree, posted by Jost on July 23, 2006, at 22:57:27
I've thought about this since last night(?) and wondered about our interaction. I don't think I was focusing well yesterday and feel I may have acted selfishly.
You're obviously very concerned about this awful war because you are more knowledgeable of this situation and 'can feel' the strife.
I am not accomplished at 'reading between the lines'. I spill my guts all over the place, and forget that many people with just as much to spill, handle it differently.
So I'm sorry also, but I didn't get a post from you after my 'too lengthy' explanation of my ignorance.
Did something go wrong w/ the move from Social to Politics?
I have no relatives, friends, or acquaitances from the Middle East, or that are of these religions. I watched CNN this morning trying to educate myself. I'm surprised at the enormity of power coming from a movement I'd not heard of until a few days ago.
My life has been a stress-mess for at least 10yrs and I've been consumed 'in my world'.
tks, cf
Posted by llrrrpp on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » Jost, posted by corafree on July 24, 2006, at 3:03:26
Now the strife comes home.
On the local news are Arabs and Jews from a nearby community who gathered to protest/support the happenings in the middle east. And I can hear hatred on both sides. These are Americans, living in America, calling for the death of other Americans. Why does the reasoning for their violent retributions sound so juvenile? Am I missing something? What happened to live and let live? Forgiveness?
I don't know what the Jewish & Muslim equivalents of
"An eye for an eye"
and
"Turn the other cheek" are
But surely these great religions have something to say regarding revenge vs. acceptance?
I'm always confused about where religion stops and where politics starts. This conflict perhaps is more confusing to me than others.
Too much suffering. Too much terror. Does it make sense to *anyone?*
Posted by Jost on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » Jost, posted by corafree on July 24, 2006, at 3:03:26
Hi, Cf,
Thanks for your last post.
I didn't answer your longer (but not "too long") message yesterday, because I wasn't sure what to say. In rereading it, I realize you asked directly for a response. My not responding wasn't from a wish to further offend you.
I'm glad you watched CNN, even though the situation is bad, because it's worth the effort, at times, to be aware of things in the world. Of course, there are times when one doesn't have the emotional energy, or time, or it's too depressing, and would be worse to know, and not worth it.
I'm sorry to hear that your life has been stressful to such an extent. You seem thoughtful and interesting, and I hope things are and will be getting better over time.
Your opinion, whatever it is, is respected by me, nor should you take any sides you aren't comfortable taking.
Possibly my original message seemed overly intense.
There was an underlying sense in what had been written by one or two people, but not by you, of a possible reaction of less sympathy for some in the Middle East than for others. I hope that it was mostly out of having their attention turned in a certain direction, than any conscious intention.
I was sensitive to certain things and wanted to make some comment.
I'm glad you interacted, even if there were misunderstandings, since that's always part of connecting, and can lead to better understanding in the future.
Jost
Posted by Declan on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » corafree, posted by Jost on July 24, 2006, at 10:48:58
Hey Jost
Here's my early morning effort to grasp the nettle.
Through various wars and the performance of their leaderships, a people has lost its land, and the bitterness of this influences the politics of the entire region.
How about that?
Declan
Posted by corafree on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » corafree, posted by Jost on July 22, 2006, at 18:35:07
<I'm sorry you feel attacked, Corafree.>
My mistake.
Yes you did apologize. Thank you so much.
Now, I also do recall receiving this post. Sorry Dinah, I believe.
bestwishes, cf
Posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation-Jay, Phillipa, Coraf, and, posted by Jost on July 22, 2006, at 16:42:26
I always like to boil "self defense" down to "who fired first.""
Though some would like to take it back a couple of thousand years...
I prefer the "who fired first" rule to be more recent.
Thus - in my mind
Afghanistan - we were attacked first - I supported this one.
Iraq - we weren't attacked - we should have left them aloneAnd the current problem? Israel was invaded and has a right to respond.
My opinion, for what it's worth.
Posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation- » Jost, posted by Gabbi~G on July 23, 2006, at 14:37:09
And a lot of what we consider polite words were once considered cursing.
Like 'jeepers'
Posted by Declan on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: Mid East situation-Jay, Phillipa, Coraf, and » Jost, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2006, at 15:51:39
is a good question. Usually you take it as far back as someone has muscle to make you.
What do you think of the idea that Israel has fallen into Hizbullah's(sp?) trap?
I imagine you saying 'Some trap!'
Is this about Iran's nuclear program? I see Pakistan has a new plutonium reactor, or something.
Declan
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: What I feel sums up the Mid East situation » Jay, posted by Phillipa on July 20, 2006, at 12:08:58
> So who is to blame over there?
Just a reminder, it tends to be more civil if you put things in terms of what others might do better rather than what they did "wrong". And to talk about how you feel rather than what someone else did, in other words, to use I-statements.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to 'How far do you take it back' » AuntieMel, posted by Declan on July 25, 2006, at 17:03:44
But was it a trap?
Or were they remembering that the last few times they did a kidnapping there *was* a trade for prisoners.
There's no way to take it back to the 'beginning' - humans have be waundering the globe and fighting over territory since pre-history.
Take it back a couple of hundred years? Then most americans would have to leave for somewhere.
How 'bout if we just say - hey the music has stopped. Whatever chair you're in is yours.
Posted by Declan on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:43
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back' » Declan, posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2006, at 17:22:38
G'day
I was thinking about this, and often we take it back to our earlest memories. So Hizbullah is really recent for me, came in in the 80s, didn't it?
There was an article reprinted from Ha'rrets(sp??) which claimed it was a trap. Hizbullah is looking long term...this will be going on long after we are both dead, I think. The point for them is to radicalise the islamic world, and have they not been successful in that? But the article was talking geopolitics, with Russia and Iran brokering a ceasefire in return for no contest over Iran's nuclear reactor. Of course it might very well not pan out that way. But the G8 didn't concentrate on Iran, and I wonder if Iran will be able to do it now. Pincer movements all over the place. We shall see what happens. Lebanon is only a small part of it (I think).
Declan
Posted by AuntieMel on July 27, 2006, at 10:03:16
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back', posted by Declan on July 26, 2006, at 17:50:23
Lebanon may seem small, but didn't WWI start over the assasination of an archduke?
Sometimes, if people are itching for a fight anyway, it doesn't take much.
This is giving ammunition to the 'wipe Israel off the earth crowd. AlJazeera isn't trying to look unbiased these days.
Iran's president is one of that crowd, and they supplied some of the missles being used in this conflict. Imagine if they had nukes?
It can't be all about generating power. We offered them nuclear power technology - free - if they swore off enrichment and they said no.
Posted by Declan on July 27, 2006, at 14:13:22
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back' » Declan, posted by AuntieMel on July 27, 2006, at 10:03:16
No, of course Iran wants a bomb. The region is a tinder box. And it's between Afghanistan and Iraq.
More people (soldiers?) have been dying in Iraq than Lebanon. Hizbullah has become the hero of the day among the Islamic world for taking on Israel (win or loose is irrelevant. Everyone knows you don't f*ck with Israel. That's why they did it).
This may have something to do with the Shia/Sunni divide. The conservative Arab regimes are feeling uncomfortable. I wonder if the long term aim of Hizbullah is directed at those regimes, not so much Israel?
A diplomatic solution? What does that mean? It's nice when we can hear how some of the leaders actually think (Yo Blair).
I fear we are in for a lifetime of Middle East peace process.
Posted by tealady on July 29, 2006, at 3:33:29
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back' » AuntieMel, posted by Declan on July 27, 2006, at 14:13:22
> I fear we are in for a lifetime of Middle East peace process.
>
>Hi Declan,
Just reading a bit of the end of this thread.
I sure hope its a lot longer than a lifetime !!!
gee, that could imply the end of the world .. though I know you didn't mean it ;-),
'Twould be only "lasting a lifetime" for all though...
gee I read things the wrong way.How many thousands of years has it been unsettled there? before Moses, the Assyrians.. lots of battles known about..
All started before Muslim when you think about it.I just hope it stays relatively peaceful with only a few flares here and there..and doesn't spread worldwide too much.. especially this way.
Posted by Declan on July 29, 2006, at 12:51:19
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back' » Declan, posted by tealady on July 29, 2006, at 3:33:29
G'day Jan
Positioned between the fuel hungry economies of the West, Russia, China and India, with an enraged population some of whom would be only to happy to set things alight, with complicated politics and group loyalties, each after an external backer......This looks like a pre WWI situation to me.
I hope our rulers do not get any more flashes of optimism.
Declan
Posted by Jay on July 29, 2006, at 23:49:34
In reply to Re: Mid East situation-Jay, Phillipa, Coraf, and, posted by Jost on July 22, 2006, at 16:42:26
Hey..listen...I am right now in the middle of some very deep personal problems...and have been through some you could likely never understand, and don't appreciate anyone acting as my spell-checker. Second, I absolutely did not infer blame to any of the sides that where/are fighting in the region. All's I said, basically, is it is just damn horrible...all of it...death, in every corner. If you can't appreciate that, well I am very sorry.
Jay
Posted by Phillipa on July 30, 2006, at 0:15:42
In reply to Re: Mid East situation-Jay, Phillipa, Coraf, and » Jost, posted by Jay on July 29, 2006, at 23:49:34
Jay I'm sorry. I had no idea. Please accept my apology. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 30, 2006, at 4:43:50
In reply to Re: Mid East situation-Jay, Phillipa, Coraf, and » Jost, posted by Jay on July 29, 2006, at 23:49:34
> I ... have been through some [very deep personal problems] you could likely never understand
I'm sorry things are rough for you right now, but please don't jump to conclusions about others.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jakeman on July 31, 2006, at 19:34:10
In reply to What I feel sums up the Mid East situation, posted by Jay on July 20, 2006, at 8:48:11
The situation in the Middle East is an explosive situation that likely will affect the whole world. I wish they would let Jimmy Carter or other conflict resolution organizations get involved. I just wrote the White House and several politicians expressing my concerns. So I'm probably on some kind of watch list now. I feel helpless. I think I may join Amnesty International.
Warm regards, Jake
Posted by tealady on July 31, 2006, at 19:57:59
In reply to Re: 'How far do you take it back', posted by Declan on July 29, 2006, at 12:51:19
Ok its census night yet again. I haven't looked at the form as yet, but there's usually a what is your religion quest. last time I was considering entering 'anti-fundamentalist Muslim".. just in case the census weren't destroyed and the world lasts long enough..so in a few hundred years time , my descendants might realise I wasn't on that side of any conflict..
Now I want to enter anti fundamentalist (or extreme) anything.. like not fundamentalist Muslim, but also not fundamentalist Jew or Christian or ...anything.. like not extreme?
Is there a term for this that u know of Dec ..or anything.
just would like to convey what 'side' of the conflict I'm on.. like a more peaceful side.
Also did you see the news about the speech in Melbourne at the synagogue was it?.. I think inciting, but at least referring to the other Middle east countries as being like Hitler and wanting to exterminate them?.. that's extreme.
personally I think the conflict is ongoing.. WWI you mentioned also kinda started with the Muslim/Christian issue too, in the Balkans but there also was the Ottoman empire and the Armenians.... the letter wasn't really it?.. but I'm don't know about the rest of the middle east.. never followed them back then Declan.:-)
I do agree about the oil issue.. if it weren't there who would care?? .. and they're wouldn't be money to try to fight back either.. I'd guess Israel would be a lot bigger by now, but maybe more peace, but that's only a guess. Look at Africa where there is no oil though.. it doesn't stop the killings, sigh. I don't know Dec.. all I can say is it would be different.. and , of course, the US (and supporters) would not be in Iraq/Iran either I guess.I'd love to see the majority of Israel relocated to somewhere in the US..and still retain its sovereignty as Israel..and Israel be a divided country(like they made Germany after WWII).. not much diff in travelling time with modern aeroplanes and telecommunications would make it even closer.. so feasible. that would allow Israel to have the necessity territory is needs to expand as it wants..and still allow the others the live too. A really small (at least as small as it was initially made, perhaps smaller ) Israel in the middle east. .. this is a solution suggestion as drBob is always saying to make suggestions!!! It would be as popular weith thsoe rlcated from their homes as israel was when located in the Middle east perhaps>. but the US has way more land..and they are on their side too.. should help a bit.
The problem really , I think , Is the US funding of Israel..with no balance.. no Russia anymore to worry about is there?
Russia threatening nukes at Britain and France (didn't they?) stopped the Suez crisis.. but there isn't a balance anymore. I'm not sure on that.. just recall listening to it said?
perhaps Iran having a nuke will provide such a balance?
of course this is scary when one is used to having all the power.. but maybe not as scary if not on that side? Just some ideas.
Posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 20:50:11
In reply to what name would u call this » Declan, posted by tealady on July 31, 2006, at 19:57:59
The USA isn't the only nation which supports Israel. Germany sends a huge amount of foreign aid there. Immense. Only Germany is much quieter about their financial support than the US is.
-ll
Posted by Jakeman on July 31, 2006, at 23:12:21
In reply to Re: what name would u call this » tealady, posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 20:50:11
> The USA isn't the only nation which supports Israel. Germany sends a huge amount of foreign aid there. Immense. Only Germany is much quieter about their financial support than the US is.
>
> -ll
>Good point. Althought from what I've read it's not military aid. Most of the bombs being dropped now are made in the USA.
7-22-06 By David S. Cloud and Helene Cooper
US Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis - The New York Timeswarm regards, Jake
Posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 23:33:13
In reply to Re: what name would u call this » llrrrpp, posted by Jakeman on July 31, 2006, at 23:12:21
> > The USA isn't the only nation which supports Israel. Germany sends a huge amount of foreign aid there. Immense. Only Germany is much quieter about their financial support than the US is.
> >
> > -ll
> >
>
> Good point. Althought from what I've read it's not military aid. Most of the bombs being dropped now are made in the USA.
>
> 7-22-06 By David S. Cloud and Helene Cooper
> US Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis - The New York Times
>
> warm regards, Jakethanks for posting that link Jake. I guess it's important to realize that Israel is buying arms from the US. They get money from? And why does the US take their money? I'm sure the humonguous national debt is good motivation... Anyways, I guess my point was just that it's more complicated than the US + Israel against the muslim countries in the Middle East. There are many other nations which are "quieter" but very much involved in the political and diplomatic machinery in this conflict.
-ll
Posted by Declan on August 1, 2006, at 18:16:03
In reply to Re: what name would u call this » Jakeman, posted by llrrrpp on July 31, 2006, at 23:33:13
Mel Gibson's father is a follower of Archbishop Lefebvre, who was excommunicated (?) from the Catholic Church for his rejection of VaticanII.
I sympathise with anyone who wants to maintain liturgical standards. (That's the best face I can put on it).
Mel seems quite old fashioned.
I can remember a time when Christians were antisemitic.
Not that I am myself (I hasten to say.....one must be so careful these days).
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