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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 5:40:15
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » alexandra_k, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 0:39:18
> > To the best of my knowledge the US is about the richest country in the world.
> > I don't understand why it needs help from poorer countries to look after its own.
> I'm offended.I'm sorry you feel that way.
I didn't mean to offend anyone.
> I don't think it's a matter of money or even need; it's about humanity. We should all help each other gladly and willingly no matter where we're from.I didn't say anything about whether people from other countries should or should not help. I said that I didn't understand why the US *NEEDED* other (poorer) countries assistance given that the US is in a better financial position than they are.
> It's also about showing some appreciation for what the US does for other countries and at least OFFERING to help for a change instead standing there with a hand out to be filled.Now I'm offended. Are you saying that other countries (mine, for example) stand out there with a hand out to be filled and don't show appreciation for the US by offering to help the US?
Sorry, but what has the US done for New Zealand lately?
And just when did we ever approach the US with a 'hand out to be filled'?
> I see it as any other friendship. You wouldn't be my friend for long if the only reason I ever called you was to ask to borrow moneyHas New Zealand asked to borrow money from the US?
>and I chose to ignore you at other times, especially if your heart was broken and all you wanted from me was a hug.
I think we are talking past each other a little.
All I'm saying...
Is to put this in perspective.
How many people died in September 11?
How many people died in the US retaliation after September 11?
How many people died in the Tsunami?
How many people died in New Orleans?
How many people starve to death every day?
How many people die of dehydration?Perspective people...
Sure, it is a tradgedy.
And we are always going to feel it more when it is closer to home.
But something happens in America and people are outraged or whatever and it gets so much air time and publicity etc...
And worse things happen all the time in other parts of the world
(Some even caused by America's retaliation)
And these things are passed over.
Ignored.If America had kept out of going into other peoples countries to force their brand of democracy on them (whether they wanted it or not) then the troops would be at home. Able to look after people in the country. By the results of the election I guess its fairly safe to say that the majority of Americans supported the war. Thought the troops should be over there.
Well the troops are over there.
And look at the consequences of that.
I guess the spread of democracy is more important than what is going on inside the country from within.And Bush flies over in his luxury jet
And do the masses take the message that he cares?
OMG
Unbelievable.There is a big wide world out there people.
Life beyond america
wake up.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 6:00:19
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » alexandra_k, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 0:39:18
Okay...
Deep breaths...
We were talking past each other.
What happened was a tragedy. People went from going about their lives to having the city fairly much destroyed around them. Yeah. Its a tradgedy. And when individuals are in distress then you want to help them. At least I do. I think its fair to assume that most people do. You imagine yourself in their shoes and you would do whatever you could to help them.
Please don't think that I have no sympathy for the individuals who have been affected. I have a lot of sympathy for them. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like.
And all that is on the individual level.
But if you want to say that other people have a moral obligation to help then you also need to consider the other horrible situations that presently exist. People still recovering from the Tsunami. People starving. People dying of HIV.
Pretty soon the sheer extent of need becomes overwhelming.
Do people have a moral obligation to help them all?
I don't think I could afford to give so much as one dollar to every individual in the world who genuinely needed it.Most people don't feel the weight of the worlds need on their shoulders. One couldn't live or function under the burden of it all. So what one does... Is narrow the circle of care. People have a greater obligation to help those that are close to them.
And so Americans have a greater obligation to help the Americans who are affected.
Probably a whole heap more than people over on the other side of the world (for example) because I could equally worry about the people in China or Pakistan, or wherever...
Now I really need to take deep breaths...
The trouble with spending money on war is that you kill innocent people. You blow up their houses and their shops and their kids. And you throw so much resources into that...
And then something happens.
And given how most of the world felt about the war (ie that it should not have happened) I dare say there won't be terribly much sympathy should America ask those poorer countries for aid.Because had America listened to the rest of the world...
Their troops would still be home
Many many lives would have been saved
And there wouldn't be such a problem dealing with the situation now.And that is at the country level.
Back to the personal level...
I'm sure that the majority of people (no matter where they are) sympathise with the individuals who are affected. A great deal. And would like to help alleviate those individuals suffering if they could.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 6:11:10
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » alexandra_k, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 0:39:18
> It's also about showing some appreciation for what the US does for other countries and at least OFFERING to help for a change instead standing there with a hand out to be filled.
Sorry... This is still getting to me. Is that what you really think? That America is a generous giver of handouts to other countries who are typically ungrateful for what America does for them?
Do they teach you this in school?
The media perhaps?
The papers?
Where on earth did this idea come from?
Do other Americans feel this way?
Posted by Nickengland on September 2, 2005, at 6:39:56
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » alexandra_k, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 0:39:18
Hi Teresa
I posted the link below on social but thought it would be worth posting on here too...
>I don't think it's a matter of money or even need; it's about humanity. We should all help each other gladly and willingly no matter where we're from.
One of the ways people can help from the far corners of the world who are outside of the US is mostly by giving money as the link will show below and of course this is the humane thing to do.
>It's also about showing some appreciation for what the US does for other countries and at least OFFERING to help for a change instead standing there with a hand out to be filled.
It may help if you could explain what you mean by appreciation and list the countries your refering too...
I'm from the UK and I think I can safely say we have been the *closest* help and allies to the US after the what happend on September 11 with regards to our support out in Iraq with troops and lifes lost etc.. ~ even to say many people here have lost lives for Mr Bush's war on Terror. (As we're talking politics)
Again the offering of help can be mostly done by people from outside of the US by donating money.
It may help if you could explain further who you mean by the countries are standing there with a handout to be filled.
Finally here is the link...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4204066.stm
Warm regards
Nick
Posted by Nickengland on September 2, 2005, at 7:32:35
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » alexandra_k, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 0:39:18
Hi again Teresa,
>We should all help each other gladly and willingly no matter where we're from.
Just thought it might be worth mentioning that you don't have to be from America to have been affected by this hurricane...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4203768.stm
And also I agree that we should always help each other where possible, for one, this keeps peace in the world as a whole :-)
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Sonya on September 2, 2005, at 13:01:39
In reply to will anyone help?, posted by lynn970 on August 30, 2005, at 18:08:59
The list of those offering help includes: China, Russia, Australia, UK, Switzerland, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Hungary, South Korea, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Israel, Guatamala, Colombia, Paraguy, Philippines, Belgium, Singapore, Greece, UAE, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Germany, Netherlands, Mexico, Jamaica, Japan, and Venezuela.
(The above was copied from a CBS News website article.)
Posted by jay on September 2, 2005, at 14:07:19
In reply to Countries offering help, posted by Sonya on September 2, 2005, at 13:01:39
> The list of those offering help includes: China, Russia, Australia, UK, Switzerland, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Hungary, South Korea, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Israel, Guatamala, Colombia, Paraguy, Philippines, Belgium, Singapore, Greece, UAE, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Germany, Netherlands, Mexico, Jamaica, Japan, and Venezuela.
>
> (The above was copied from a CBS News website article.)You forgot (or they did), Canada, amongst the first to offer aid. :)
Jay
Posted by lynn970 on September 2, 2005, at 16:00:39
In reply to Re: forgot Canada » Sonya, posted by jay on September 2, 2005, at 14:07:19
I am so glad to here that other countries care.
I thought that other countries hated us.
When "Papa" Bush was president I used to get so mad because I felt like we were meddling in other countries' business.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:03:20
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » crazy teresa, posted by Nickengland on September 2, 2005, at 7:32:35
> Just thought it might be worth mentioning that you don't have to be from America to have been affected by this hurricane...Yeah, thanks for that Nick.
And with respect to helping where you can...
What about the legislation that enables the drug companies to make HIV medication unavailable to the majority of the worlds sufferers?
What about the legislation that gives you how long on the dole (6 months or something like that) and then doesn't care whether you starve?
What about the summit? Did those countries really do the best they could?
What about Bush throwing the food he was eating (paid for by the country no doubt) out the window of the luxury jet so somebody who really needed it could have some?
Nice to see so many countries on the 'we must remember to be your friends and give you aid when you require it' (ha!) list.
I do hope people take my point about the difference between
being concerned for individual people and wanting to help them
and
considering what (if any) obligation particular countries have to jump to america's aid.
why america?
thats my point.
why?
there are people starving all over.
countries that don't have enoguh money to help themselves.
what happens over there is...
not mentioned quite so often.
but not when it happens in america.
then everybody must act
must act!
and it is an outrage
Posted by lynn970 on September 2, 2005, at 16:06:43
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » crazy teresa, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 5:40:15
>There is a big wide world out there people.
Life beyond america
wake up.Please be civil. Now I am offended.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:11:11
In reply to Re: will anyone help?, posted by lynn970 on September 2, 2005, at 16:06:43
i apologise to you.
i'm sorry.
Posted by lynn970 on September 2, 2005, at 16:14:37
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » lynn970, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:11:11
Posted by Dominique on September 2, 2005, at 16:14:51
In reply to Re: will anyone help?, posted by caraher on September 1, 2005, at 13:43:46
Caraher, remember that it is a rumor... I watched the news two nights ago when the letter was read quoting the Germany offical stating that it was pretty much good for the US to have this happen to them...their lives and poor thoughts towards the environment have brought this on.... A US environmentalist of 50+ years then came on air to say that our effect from chemicals & pesticides, hairspray and aerosols, have absolutely no fact to this natural Godly disaster occurring.
dom
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:16:26
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » lynn970, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:11:11
just to put that back into context...
what i meant about there being life beyond america is the contemplation of facts such as these:
How many people died in September 11?
How many people died in the US retaliation after September 11?
How many people died in the Tsunami?
How many people died in New Orleans?
How many people starve to death every day?
How many people die of dehydration?Sure, it is a tradgedy.
And we are always going to feel it more when it is closer to home.
But something happens in America and people are outraged or whatever and it gets so much air time and publicity etc...
And worse things happen all the time in other parts of the world
(Some even caused by America's retaliation)
And these things are passed over.
Ignored.And i think that people should 'wake up' (ie contemplate) those kinds of facts. BEFORE thinking that other countries have a moral obligation to jump to america's aid.
other countries have offered aid.
imo it should be accepted as a humanitarian gesture.
and NOT seen as something that was owed america or that america was entitled to.
thats what i meant by what i was saying
and those comments were directed to crazy tim sorry if i offended you.
Posted by caraher on September 2, 2005, at 17:40:16
In reply to Re: will anyone help?, posted by Dominique on September 2, 2005, at 16:14:51
> Caraher, remember that it is a rumor...
Yup, I made a point of saying that... one with some initial plausibility to me, at least.
Anyway, in response to Alexandra's question about whether other Americans see the US as the world's benefactor, I think a lot of Americans share that view (that we help other countries "all the time" and it's "about time" they reciprocated). I recognize that the US isn't the only or even the leading country in aiding victims of tragedy, whether you look at it on a per-capita basis or relative to the size of the economy. And I remember the unanimous world support immediately after 9/11, when a French newspaper proclaimed "We Are All Americans" and numerous countries cooperated in the hunt for bin Laden in Afghanistan (that later pointedly refused to join the war in Iraq).
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 2, 2005, at 19:00:21
In reply to Re: will anyone help?, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 16:16:26
> just to put that back into context...
> what i meant about there being life beyond america is the contemplation of facts such as these:
>
>
> How many people died in September 11?
> How many people died in the US retaliation after September 11?
> How many people died in the Tsunami?
> How many people died in New Orleans?
> How many people starve to death every day?
> How many people die of dehydration?
>
> Sure, it is a tradgedy.
> And we are always going to feel it more when it is closer to home.
> But something happens in America and people are outraged or whatever and it gets so much air time and publicity etc...
> And worse things happen all the time in other parts of the world
> (Some even caused by America's retaliation)
> And these things are passed over.
> Ignored.
>
>
>
>
>
> And i think that people should 'wake up' (ie contemplate) those kinds of facts. BEFORE thinking that other countries have a moral obligation to jump to america's aid.
>
> other countries have offered aid.
>
> imo it should be accepted as a humanitarian gesture.
>
> and NOT seen as something that was owed america or that america was entitled to.
>
> thats what i meant by what i was saying
> and those comments were directed to crazy t
>
> im sorry if i offended you.
>I'm heartbroken about what is happening in New Orleans, I keep thinking of the history there.. and I have no words to describe the devastation of the people.
I'm appalled at how poorly it is being dealt with.
I do, though hear what you are saying, loud and clear.
It was exemplified when I read in the paper I think someone say "Now these terrible things are happening in the U.S what's going wrong?"I know that's not the attitude of most americans, maybe the one they just chose to quote.. but I was in disbelief.
I guess though, maybe it's just not the time to be talking about these things.. I dunno.
I'm not good at keeping quiet either sistah..
Posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 19:04:36
In reply to Countries offering help, posted by Sonya on September 2, 2005, at 13:01:39
> The list of those offering help includes: China, Russia, Australia, UK, Switzerland, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Hungary, South Korea, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Israel, Guatamala, Colombia, Paraguy, Philippines, Belgium, Singapore, Greece, UAE, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Germany, Netherlands, Mexico, Jamaica, Japan, and Venezuela.
>
> (The above was copied from a CBS News website article.)Sonya, thank you so much for posting the list!!!
As I understand it, most have offered to send doctors, relief workers, etc., etc., which is absolutely wonderful!
As an American, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know so many other countries care.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 2, 2005, at 19:09:49
In reply to Re: Countries offering help » Sonya, posted by crazy teresa on September 2, 2005, at 19:04:36
That's so heartwarming, isn't it?
but oops they didn't list Canada, or maybe they just forgot for a moment that we aren't technically the 51st state so it wasn't mentioned : )
I know we've offered help, and some troops are already in there, though they've suspended operations for a week I think, because of the shooting risks.
> > The list of those offering help includes: China, Russia, Australia, UK, Switzerland, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Hungary, South Korea, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Israel, Guatamala, Colombia, Paraguy, Philippines, Belgium, Singapore, Greece, UAE, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Germany, Netherlands, Mexico, Jamaica, Japan, and Venezuela.
> >
> > (The above was copied from a CBS News website article.)
>
> Sonya, thank you so much for posting the list!!!
>
> As I understand it, most have offered to send doctors, relief workers, etc., etc., which is absolutely wonderful!
>
> As an American, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know so many other countries care.
Posted by Gabbix2 on September 2, 2005, at 19:40:48
In reply to Re: Countries offering help, posted by Gabbix2 on September 2, 2005, at 19:09:49
Posted by Jakeman on September 2, 2005, at 19:51:36
In reply to will anyone help?, posted by lynn970 on August 30, 2005, at 18:08:59
> When the tsunami hit the Eastern part of the world we were quick to help. I am glad that we can help. I do wonder, however, just how many other countries will help us with our tragedy from hurricane Katrina.
The Bush administration initally refused aid from foriegn countries. Yesterday that decision was reversed.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by ClearSkies on September 2, 2005, at 20:46:02
In reply to Re: forgot Canada » Sonya, posted by jay on September 2, 2005, at 14:07:19
> > The list of those offering help includes: China, Russia, Australia, UK, Switzerland, Colombia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Hungary, South Korea, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, Israel, Guatamala, Colombia, Paraguy, Philippines, Belgium, Singapore, Greece, UAE, Italy, Guyana, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Austria, Lithuania, Spain, Dominica, Norway, Cuba, Bahamas, Germany, Netherlands, Mexico, Jamaica, Japan, and Venezuela.
> >
> > (The above was copied from a CBS News website article.)
>
> You forgot (or they did), Canada, amongst the first to offer aid. :)
>
> Jay
>
>Condie Rice listed Canada first as countries who have offered aid during her press conference this evening. First time I've ever seen that woman look anything close to un-collected.
ClearSkies, usedta was PartlyCloudy
Posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 21:03:50
In reply to Re: forgot Canada » jay, posted by ClearSkies on September 2, 2005, at 20:46:02
>Most of the victims were poor and black, largely because they have no cars and so were unable to flee the city before Katrina pounded the US Gulf Coast on Monday. The disaster has highlighted the racial and class divides in a city and a country where the gap between rich and poor is vast.
>The scenes of destruction and mayhem resembled a major Third World refugee crisis, angering politicians and local residents who said the lack of aid was unacceptable in the world's richest country.
>Civil right leader Jesse Jackson, speaking in Baton Rouge, said the government had been "grossly insensitive" to the needs of New Orleans' poor.
Its not about how much other countries care about the particular people.
Of course they care about them.
And just because a country didn't send anything...
Doesn't mean that they don't care.
Its just a matter of the US governments priorities.
And personally...
I hope lessons will be learned from this.
It is such a shameful tradgedy.
Posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2005, at 21:46:55
In reply to Re: forgot Canada, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 21:03:50
Um, I never get into politics but a problem I have is that the American people didn't neccesarily vote Bush in. It is the electorial college that decides the president it's really not the voice of the people. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2005, at 5:39:42
In reply to Re: will anyone help? » crazy teresa, posted by alexandra_k on September 2, 2005, at 5:40:15
> standing there with a hand out to be filled.
>
> crazy t> wake up.
>
> alexandra_kPlease don't post anything that could lead to others feeling accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ClearSkies on September 3, 2005, at 5:58:25
In reply to Re: forgot Canada, posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2005, at 21:46:55
> Um, I never get into politics but a problem I have is that the American people didn't neccesarily vote Bush in. It is the electorial college that decides the president it's really not the voice of the people. Fondly, Phillipa
I asked my husband (since I am a legal resident alien) whether the party in power in the US could hold a vote of non-confidence in their party leader, as they can do in Canada. Then the ruling party can select another president (instead of the next of line in the chain of command stepping up). That would be just as bad in my book!
No such luck.
Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air??
Maybe we can ask Canada to take over our government functions while we're in this current crisis and see if it works any better!!
disclaimer: please, don't tell me to go back where I came from. I pay taxes and don't claim unemployment or any benefits.
ClearSkies
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