![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 15, 2011, at 12:18:04
That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 15, 2011, at 12:54:48
In reply to How Good Do We Have To Be?, posted by floatingbridge on September 15, 2011, at 12:18:04
> That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
>
> Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
>Kushner is a great writer. To further ruminate on your circumstances, the sad part is some people take the words in the Bible as literal 'instructions'. First off, the Bible wasn't written in English, and there are many meanings to even single words in the Bible.
Second, there is no *you HAVE to do this and that* directive in the Bible, despite what fundamentalists say. Jesus found comfort forgiving prostitutes and murderers. He lived among the sick, the poor, the hungry. He didn't put himself above anything. Jesus was really, our first social activist.
From John 8:15 "You [Pharisees] judge by human standards; I pass judgement on no one." This means that you "strive" to be and do good, but by no means are we never to make mistakes, etc. In fact, all of us humans are bound and expected to make errors...even if you spent a lifetime doing so.
I think if we are honest with ourselves and others, and *try* to use compassion, empathy, and forgiveness in our everyday lives, that really captures the spirit of Jesus and God. Admitting we where wrong and looking for redemption are very God-like qualities. Also, you don't have to go to Church to be a "good Christian".
I'd highly recommend the following book by the amazing writer Philip Yancey. "Soul Survivor: How Thirteen Unlikely Mentors Helped My Faith Survive the Church"
Please get back when you can..
Peace,
Jay
Posted by floatingbridge on September 15, 2011, at 13:11:11
In reply to Re: How Good Do We Have To Be? » floatingbridge, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 15, 2011, at 12:54:48
Wow. A book about church damage. He picks quite an array of people, some I do not recognize. It looks interesting. Thank you :-)
From the Kushner, I loved this re-quoting of Carl Rogers:
There is something I do before I start a session. I let myself know that I am enough. Not perfect. *Perfect wouldn't be good enough.*. But that I am human, and that is enough. There is nothing that this man can say or do or feel that I can't feel in myself. I can be with him. I am enough."
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2011, at 19:42:14
In reply to Re: How Good Do We Have To Be? » floatingbridge, posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 15, 2011, at 12:54:48
> > That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
> >
> > Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
> >
>
> Kushner is a great writer. To further ruminate on your circumstances, the sad part is some people take the words in the Bible as literal 'instructions'. First off, the Bible wasn't written in English, and there are many meanings to even single words in the Bible.
>
> Second, there is no *you HAVE to do this and that* directive in the Bible, despite what fundamentalists say. Jesus found comfort forgiving prostitutes and murderers. He lived among the sick, the poor, the hungry. He didn't put himself above anything. Jesus was really, our first social activist.
>
> From John 8:15 "You [Pharisees] judge by human standards; I pass judgement on no one." This means that you "strive" to be and do good, but by no means are we never to make mistakes, etc. In fact, all of us humans are bound and expected to make errors...even if you spent a lifetime doing so.
>
> I think if we are honest with ourselves and others, and *try* to use compassion, empathy, and forgiveness in our everyday lives, that really captures the spirit of Jesus and God. Admitting we where wrong and looking for redemption are very God-like qualities. Also, you don't have to go to Church to be a "good Christian".
>
> I'd highly recommend the following book by the amazing writer Philip Yancey. "Soul Survivor: How Thirteen Unlikely Mentors Helped My Faith Survive the Church"
>
> Please get back when you can..
>
> Peace,
> Jay
>
> Jay,
You wrote,[...the myth of Adam and Eve...there is no *you HAVE to do this and that directive in the Bible...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could podt answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What criteria do you use to state [...the xxxx of Adam and Eve...]?
B. Could it be possible that Adam and Eve are not mythical? If not, why not?
C. If there is no you Have to do this or that in the Bible, what then is your meaning of the passages that use the words must and shall?
D. redacted by respondent
Lou
>
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2011, at 20:35:37
In reply to Lou's request-umuzbhebrnehygen » Shes_InItForTheMoney, posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2011, at 19:42:14
> > > That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
> > >
> > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
> > >
> > > Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
> > >
> >
> > Kushner is a great writer. To further ruminate on your circumstances, the sad part is some people take the words in the Bible as literal 'instructions'. First off, the Bible wasn't written in English, and there are many meanings to even single words in the Bible.
> >
> > Second, there is no *you HAVE to do this and that* directive in the Bible, despite what fundamentalists say. Jesus found comfort forgiving prostitutes and murderers. He lived among the sick, the poor, the hungry. He didn't put himself above anything. Jesus was really, our first social activist.
> >
> > From John 8:15 "You [Pharisees] judge by human standards; I pass judgement on no one." This means that you "strive" to be and do good, but by no means are we never to make mistakes, etc. In fact, all of us humans are bound and expected to make errors...even if you spent a lifetime doing so.
> >
> > I think if we are honest with ourselves and others, and *try* to use compassion, empathy, and forgiveness in our everyday lives, that really captures the spirit of Jesus and God. Admitting we where wrong and looking for redemption are very God-like qualities. Also, you don't have to go to Church to be a "good Christian".
> >
> > I'd highly recommend the following book by the amazing writer Philip Yancey. "Soul Survivor: How Thirteen Unlikely Mentors Helped My Faith Survive the Church"
> >
> > Please get back when you can..
> >
> > Peace,
> > Jay
> >
> > Jay,
> You wrote,[...the myth of Adam and Eve...there is no *you HAVE to do this and that directive in the Bible...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could podt answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. What criteria do you use to state [...the xxxx of Adam and Eve...]?
> B. Could it be possible that Adam and Eve are not mythical? If not, why not?
> C. If there is no you Have to do this or that in the Bible, what then is your meaning of the passages that use the words must and shall?
> D. redacted by respondent
> Lou
> >
> > Jay,
I see now that the statement concerning Adam and Eve was written by the poster that you were responding to. Please disregard my requests to you concerning that aspect.
Lou
> >
>
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2011, at 20:44:19
In reply to How Good Do We Have To Be?, posted by floatingbridge on September 15, 2011, at 12:18:04
> That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
>
> Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
>fb,
You wrote,[...the xxxx of Adam and Eve...been misread..suffering...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Is it possible for Adam and Eve to not be mythical? If not, why not?
B. If it is misread, how could it be read instead?
C. What is the suffering from as to what is written in the reading about Adam and Eve?
Lou
Posted by floatingbridge on September 16, 2011, at 0:36:18
In reply to Lou's request-mnwomn » floatingbridge, posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2011, at 20:44:19
> > That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
> >
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-
20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
> >
> > Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
> >
>
> fb,
> You wrote,[...the xxxx of Adam and Eve...been misread..suffering...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Is it possible for Adam and Eve to not be mythical? If not, why not?
> B. If it is misread, how could it be read instead?
> C. What is the suffering from as to what is written in the reading about Adam and Eve?
> LouHi Lou,
I imagine it is possible Adam and Eve were actual people. Is this what you are asking? I think of them as mythical. I don't know why, really. I don't have anything to back up either position that I think would be helpful here.
Sometimes people can read Genisis and criticize Eve and from there, begin to disrespect all women in general. That's the first answer that comes to mind, and it's a small example. Kushner's entire book is about how he interprets their story in a positive light that he finds brings healing to his congregation. I'm not finished with it, but I can reccommend it as good reading to address your questions better than I can.
I am not sure I understand part C, or if I do, I can really address what I see as a profound question. You are asking what is the suffering from? Maybe from a deep sense of being unworthy of God's love, and a deep shame humanity caused God to reject us? Isolation and being unloved or feeling like an outcast can be intolerable for human beings. Humans seem to need connection.
You know, Lou, these are just my personal beliefs.
Have you been interested in Genesis, too? I hope it doesn't trouble you the way it does me.
A poet once wrote that something "hurts me the way the world hurts God."
Does the world hurt God? Some people think so. I don't know. Do you think so?
Very nice talking with you, Lou.
fb
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2011, at 4:38:25
In reply to Re: Lou's request-mnwomn » Lou Pilder, posted by floatingbridge on September 16, 2011, at 0:36:18
> > > That's the title of the Harold Kushner book I am reading and loving right now. It is helping me with my childhood religious damage. It is a comforting and sane revisiting of the myth of Adam and Eve and their expulsion form Paradise. That's a myth that has, being misread IMO, has brought so much unnecessary suffering in a world in which suffering is already an intrinsic part.
> > >
> > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316519332?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-
> 20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0316519332&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2
> > >
> > > Wow. Long URL. Hope it works.
> > >
> >
> > fb,
> > You wrote,[...the xxxx of Adam and Eve...been misread..suffering...].
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> > A. Is it possible for Adam and Eve to not be mythical? If not, why not?
> > B. If it is misread, how could it be read instead?
> > C. What is the suffering from as to what is written in the reading about Adam and Eve?
> > Lou
>
> Hi Lou,
>
> I imagine it is possible Adam and Eve were actual people. Is this what you are asking? I think of them as mythical. I don't know why, really. I don't have anything to back up either position that I think would be helpful here.
>
> Sometimes people can read Genisis and criticize Eve and from there, begin to disrespect all women in general. That's the first answer that comes to mind, and it's a small example. Kushner's entire book is about how he interprets their story in a positive light that he finds brings healing to his congregation. I'm not finished with it, but I can reccommend it as good reading to address your questions better than I can.
>
> I am not sure I understand part C, or if I do, I can really address what I see as a profound question. You are asking what is the suffering from? Maybe from a deep sense of being unworthy of God's love, and a deep shame humanity caused God to reject us? Isolation and being unloved or feeling like an outcast can be intolerable for human beings. Humans seem to need connection.
>
> You know, Lou, these are just my personal beliefs.
>
> Have you been interested in Genesis, too? I hope it doesn't trouble you the way it does me.
>
> A poet once wrote that something "hurts me the way the world hurts God."
>
> Does the world hurt God? Some people think so. I don't know. Do you think so?
>
> Very nice talking with you, Lou.
>
> fb
>
> fb,
You wrote,[...have you been interested in Genesis...?].
What has been revealed to me, if I was permitted to post all of that here, IMHO could save your life and you could become free from the suffering that you describe here in relation to whatever in the book called Genesis has caused you.
You see, Mr. Hsiung has posted prohibitions to me here that preclude me from posting the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me and other related concepts. What I could post to you here would cause me to include the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me. These preohibitions have a historical parallel that I also can not post here about. And there is a prohibition to me that I can not post the links to the posts that have the prohibitions. You may get an understanding of this better by reading all of the outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung on the administration board.
I did post some about what has been revealed to me concerning the Garden and Adam an Eve. Here is a link to one post and you could go through that thread to see some of what I have been trying to share with others here that IMHO if they were allowed to hear all of the revelation to me, they could be made free from their suffering.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/841698.html
Posted by Shes_InItForTheMoney on September 16, 2011, at 5:00:33
In reply to Lou's reply-phowndheyshunofjdsm » floatingbridge, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2011, at 4:38:25
Lou,
You seem to have good intentions, but it sounds like you are trying to recruit people to Judaism. The answer for *you* most likely not be the answer for so many others. Everyone has to find their way to their particular source of light. Judaism is one of many beliefs. And there is no emperical, scientific sound evidence that belonging to any Faith group will help and or *cure* mental illness.
Most of the stuff you/we pick up from Google is not valid. A scientific journal, with scientifically controlled experiments, is the only rational thing lead to proof or failure.Jay
Posted by Dinah on September 16, 2011, at 8:24:23
In reply to Re: Lou's request-mnwomn » Lou Pilder, posted by floatingbridge on September 16, 2011, at 0:36:18
I'm glad you enjoyed Rabbi Kushner! I credit him with the regenesis of my faith.
> Sometimes people can read Genisis and criticize Eve and from there, begin to disrespect all women in general. That's the first answer that comes to mind, and it's a small example. Kushner's entire book is about how he interprets their story in a positive light that he finds brings healing to his congregation. I'm not finished with it, but I can reccommend it as good reading to address your questions better than I can.
>
> I am not sure I understand part C, or if I do, I can really address what I see as a profound question. You are asking what is the suffering from? Maybe from a deep sense of being unworthy of God's love, and a deep shame humanity caused God to reject us? Isolation and being unloved or feeling like an outcast can be intolerable for human beings. Humans seem to need connection.At first when I read this book I rejected everything he had to say as contrary to all I know. I was surprised to be so disappointed in a writer I loved. But without even picking the book up again, the ideas percolated in my brain until they became part of my faith experience - as natural as if they'd been there all along. He tends to have that effect on me.
> A poet once wrote that something "hurts me the way the world hurts God."
>
> Does the world hurt God? Some people think so. I don't know. Do you think so?I think it must. Well, it must if God is what I conceive God to be. I'm always willing to admit the possibility of error. :)
Posted by floatingbridge on September 16, 2011, at 9:28:14
In reply to Lou's reply-phowndheyshunofjdsm » floatingbridge, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2011, at 4:38:25
Lou, thank you very much for that link. The description of your revelation is so beautiful. It was really a gift to you, at least it seems to me.
I will think on your words.
I do not feel like you are trying to convert me to anything except feeling better and a love and peaceful understanding of God, for which I thank you.
I don't usually read the admin board. I am sorry to hear that you feel unable to speak more freely on the faith board, since your sense of faith seems so deep and vital for you.
Thank you for you response.
With gratitude,
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on September 16, 2011, at 9:33:34
In reply to Re: Lou's request-mnwomn » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on September 16, 2011, at 8:24:23
Dinah, he is another influence to thank you for. I have taken to this book immediately. As a matter of fact, his talk of Yom Kippur at his temple was so compelling I would go to his temple just to experience it.
I am looking forward to more of his books. Seems he has written quite a few, and the prospect of this reading delights me.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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