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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hugh on July 5, 2014, at 13:45:53
Transcranial Direct Current Stimulation was originally studied as a treatment for depression in the 1960s. Interest in it waned, but it's making a comeback. You can now buy a tDCS unit for $249 (or $139 for a factory refurbished unit). It's called the foc.us
Here's some background information on tDCS:
This video shows what it looks like:
Posted by Beckett on July 7, 2014, at 16:04:41
In reply to tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 5, 2014, at 13:45:53
You sure know a lot. Seriously. Very cool :-)
Posted by Hugh on July 9, 2014, at 10:45:51
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Beckett on July 7, 2014, at 16:04:41
Posted by Hugh on July 13, 2014, at 19:59:36
In reply to tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 5, 2014, at 13:45:53
I recently heard about another tDCS device, which is quite a bit cheaper than foc.us
Posted by Beckett on July 18, 2014, at 13:10:17
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 13, 2014, at 19:59:36
Is this similar to the Wallace Fisher (is that the right name?).
I had a panic attack within 15 minutes after completing my first (and last) treatment. Interesting I think. Everyone responds so differently. Have you tried it? This was at a chiropractor's office.
Posted by Hugh on July 18, 2014, at 15:02:09
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Beckett on July 18, 2014, at 13:10:17
Fisher Wallace and Alpha Stim and Sota Bio Tuner (which I own) all use alternating current. tDCS uses direct current. A few years ago, I went to Radio Shack and bought all the parts for a tDCS unit, and a friend of mine who's an electronics whiz built it for me. tDCS has a subtle speedy effect on my brain. Sometimes it significantly elevates my mood, but most of the time this doesn't happen. I've read that it's better to use your brain while doing tDCS -- like studying a foreign language or doing math or playing video games -- instead of just sitting there passively.
Posted by Beckett on July 18, 2014, at 15:54:21
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression » Beckett, posted by Hugh on July 18, 2014, at 15:02:09
Could you explain why direct current might be different than alternating? Less activating rather than blink blink?
A friend has been learning a language, and I've read about beneficial effects on memory.
Posted by Hugh on July 19, 2014, at 10:33:34
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Beckett on July 18, 2014, at 15:54:21
> Could you explain why direct current might be different than alternating?
The alternating current devices deliver the same frequency to both sides of the brain. tDCS excites one side of the brain (usually the left) while inhibiting the other side.
Posted by Beckett on July 19, 2014, at 13:26:43
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 19, 2014, at 10:33:34
Usually the left for study or gaming. Interesting. It could be worn on the right to a calming effect (I'm just guessing)? Or for inspiration while writing or doing...? I don't know.
As I type this, I can't remember if you said much of your homemade experiment.
Thanks :-)
Posted by Hugh on July 20, 2014, at 18:44:00
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Beckett on July 19, 2014, at 13:26:43
mybraintrainer.com is a computer game that tests memory, accuracy and speed. I do much better at it -- especially with speed -- when I'm doing tDCS. But tDCS only gives my mood a boost occasionally. With tDCS, you can stimulate one side of the brain while calming the other side, or you can just work on one side of the brain, by wearing the anode (positive) electrode on the left side of the head and the cathode (negative) electrode on the left shoulder, or you can get a calming effect by wearing the cathode on the right side of the head and the anode on the right shoulder.
An informative article about tDCS:
Posted by Beckett on July 21, 2014, at 19:27:52
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 20, 2014, at 18:44:00
Alpha Stim was the device that triggered anxiety. I did rent the unit from my chiropractor and tried other configurations, but it didn't do much unfortunately. This thread has me reading about mind machines however. Which one do you use/like? Also HeartMath, an approach I had forgotten about. Have you read about it or tried it? I tried a device and liked it. There is much unhappiness around depression.
Posted by Hugh on July 22, 2014, at 11:42:59
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Beckett on July 21, 2014, at 19:27:52
I have tried HeartMath. And I've tried Wild Divine. I like them okay. They can be especially effective for people with lots of anxiety.
About CES, my Sota Bio Tuner has three settings -- energizing, relaxing and sleep. The energizing program made me feel anxious. The relaxing and sleep programs made me feel calm, but over a period of a few months, they became less and less effective. My brain became habituated to them. Apparently, habituation is a big problem with CES devices.
Light and sound devices have the same problem. The first few times I used one (a David Paradise XL), my brain's reaction was "WOW!" But after a couple weeks, my brain's reaction was "yawn." An exception to this is the pRoshi. It's a light stimulation device, and its signal is so complex that the brain is much less likely to become habituated to it. It's helped to make me feel more focused. Its biggest drawback is its price -- about $1,800.
http://www.biofeedback.no/utstyr/roshi.html
http://brainhealer.com/services/proshi-personal-roshi/
I belong to some of the neurofeedback groups on Yahoo. Some neurofeedback clinicians have tried using the Alpha Stim with their patients. The clinicians say that it works for a while, but then their patients become habituated to it. There's a more sophisticated CES device that some of the neurofeedback clinicians are enthusiastic about. It's called Nexalin, and it appears to be more effective than other forms of CES, and so far habituation hasn't been a problem. But you can't buy one for personal use. You need to go to a Nexalin provider to try it.
Posted by Beckett on July 22, 2014, at 14:36:36
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression, posted by Hugh on July 22, 2014, at 11:42:59
Hey, thanks again for all the the information. The pRoshi looks intriguing. I wonder if there is a practioner in my area with a set up.
It turns out there is a major neuro/biofeedback center in my town. My sense is anxiety sufferers would benefit the most. How well, would you say, it could work with major, recurrent depression?
There is also a rTMS center here that doctors (mine at least) feel is very good. I am contacting them about insurance. I can't recall if you have tried it.
Posted by Hugh on July 23, 2014, at 9:07:54
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression » Hugh, posted by Beckett on July 22, 2014, at 14:36:36
You're welcome. I haven't tried TMS. If I do try it, I'd try Deep TMS. If your insurance covers TMS, it's certainly worth a shot.
Here's a list of pRoshi providers:
http://www.joanfabian.net/roshipractitioner.asp
Neurofeedback helped my depression somewhat. I did it thirteen years ago, and great strides have been made in the field since then. I plan on doing some more of it. I suggest that you find out what approach the neurofeedback center near you offers. There's one-channel, two-channel, connectivity training, Z-Score, Infra-Low Frequency Training, Neuroptimal, TLC, etc.
Posted by Beckett on July 28, 2014, at 17:16:56
In reply to Re: tDCS for depression » Beckett, posted by Hugh on July 23, 2014, at 9:07:54
This is the end of the thread.
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