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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on March 26, 2007, at 23:58:15
So many choices. :)
Is Magnesium Chloride any good? Thanks...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Joe Bloe on March 27, 2007, at 0:15:16
In reply to What's the best form of magnesium?, posted by saturn on March 26, 2007, at 23:58:15
Yes, the subject of magnesiums can be overwhelming.
Please, share stories anyone might have relating to the issue, what they were taking it to treat, etc.
This might elucidate the matter.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 8:48:44
In reply to What's the best form of magnesium?, posted by saturn on March 26, 2007, at 23:58:15
> So many choices. :)
>
> Is Magnesium Chloride any good? Thanks...Peace...Saturn.It depends on why you're taking it.
First, avoid magnesium oxide and magnesium carbonate. The first compound is covalent, i.e. it contains a double bond between the oxygen atom and the magnesium atom (Mg=O). It is entirely insoluble in water, and is poorly soluble in acid. As a result, bioavailability is low, or at best, variable. The latter, the carbonate, is poorly soluble in water, and consumes substantial acid to dissolve in the stomach. It may serve as an antacid, if that's what you're seeking. Again, magnesium bioavailability is low/variable.
Magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia) is kind of an intermediate salt. It isn't readily soluble in water, thus the milkiness, but it liberates magnesium readily in acid, neutralizing acid along the way. It's better than the carbonate, but still falls short of the next category.
The other magnesium salts all dissolve readily, so bioavailability is high. These include chloride, sulphate (Epsom salts), ascorbate, citrate, or malate. The ascorbate is a source of ascorbic acid (vitamin C), while the malate provides malic acid, which some believe helps in the relief of symptoms of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue.
Then you have the chelates. They're not really salts, and solubility is a little variable, but they are pretty much fully bioavailable. Generally, the chelates are compounds with amino acids, so you'll see the glycinate, taurinate, aspartate, and perhaps others. Here, you might consider the biological impact of not only the magnesium, but also the chelating amino acid, e.g. taurine or glycine.
In all cases, it is important to determine the amount of elemental magnesium being supplied. For example, magnesium makes up only 10% of the mass of magnesium sulphate. In contrast, it's 13% of the chloride, but 42% of the hydroxide. Presumably, the math has all been done by the supplier of ready-made products (tablets and capsules), but you'll have to figure it out yourself for bulk products. (I'll help anyone who wants to go that route. Epsom salts are dirt cheap, although perhaps most likely to produce diarrhea.) The take home message is that you take different total amounts of the various magnesium compounds in order to provide the appropriate amount of magnesium itself.
As far as tolerability goes, I've heard that the chloride is easiest to tolerate. However, using other products can give you multiple modes of action, as with magnesium taurate, giving two calming substances simultaneously.
Lar
Posted by saturn on March 27, 2007, at 10:07:45
In reply to Re: What's the best form of magnesium? » saturn, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 8:48:44
Thanks Lar!
I think I'll give the Magnesium Taurate a shot. I plan on using it for ADHD and anxiety. It's funny, but when Magnesium works for me...it *really* works. I've discovered this incidentally many times just by taking a few rolaids containing the low-bioavailable Mg Oxide.
The problems I've run into is "poop-out". I find it difficult to sustain the effects, even with Mg Chloride. Thanks again...Peace...Saturn.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 11:57:23
In reply to Re: What's the best form of magnesium? » saturn, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 8:48:44
What about Magnesium gluconate? Do you know what that is?
I'm thinking of getting this supplement:
__________________
Instant Calcium And Magnesium drink with Vitamin C
By popular request we've brought back this calcium and magnesium drink that is ideal for children (especially when teething) and adults who want to relax for a while, away from daily cares. Calma C performs a small miracle when hot water is added. The calcium and magnesium gluconates provided are transformed into their highly bio-available citrate, malate and ascorbate forms. Add honey, fruit juice or herb tea if desired.
120mg Calcium gluconate, 1.25µg Vitamin D2 (50iu), 78.3mg Vitamin C, 90mg Magnesium gluconate, 301mg Citric Acid, 14mg Malic Acid.
Posted by Joe Bloe on March 28, 2007, at 2:50:33
In reply to Re: What's the best form of magnesium? » saturn, posted by Larry Hoover on March 27, 2007, at 8:48:44
I would like to take a magnesium supplement. The purpose is to treat depression, anxiety, and add.
But I can't decide on what to take because the Mag info is still so confusing.
Maybe a straight shooter, such as Solger's Magnesium Citrate 400 mgs, would suffice.
But won't I be missing out on the other great Magnesium's - the malates, the chelates, the CONTAMINATES? Oops... no, strike the last one, lol.
Seriously though, I've been thinking about the blends to avoid some of this confusion, but once more, only confusion reigns... Most of the blends have potassium, Vit D, calcium, or some combination of all of these, PLUS a combination of Magnesiums!
More questions arise: to take with calcium or not; to take with potassium or not.
It's still oh so confusing!
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 28, 2007, at 14:26:22
In reply to Re: What's the best form of magnesium?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 27, 2007, at 11:57:23
> What about Magnesium gluconate? Do you know what that is?
I forgot the gluconate. Doh!
Gluconic acid is oxidized glucose. It's naturally found in honey and fruit. It is a chelator.
> I'm thinking of getting this supplement:
>
> __________________
>
> Instant Calcium And Magnesium drink with Vitamin C
>
> By popular request we've brought back this calcium and magnesium drink that is ideal for children (especially when teething) and adults who want to relax for a while, away from daily cares. Calma C performs a small miracle when hot water is added.No, it doesn't. It dissolves.
> The calcium and magnesium gluconates provided are transformed into their highly bio-available citrate, malate and ascorbate forms. Add honey, fruit juice or herb tea if desired.
All you have is a solution of the various substances. By definition, they are fully dissociated, being surrounded by water molecules. Ergo, there are no citrated, malated and ascorbated forms of magnesium present, and there is no influence on bioavailability.
> 120mg Calcium gluconate, 1.25µg Vitamin D2 (50iu), 78.3mg Vitamin C, 90mg Magnesium gluconate, 301mg Citric Acid, 14mg Malic Acid.The ascorbic, citric, and malic acids influence taste. Nothing more, apart from their potential roles in metabolism, but those are distinct from being coincidentally found within spitting distance of calcium or magnesium.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 28, 2007, at 14:30:28
In reply to Re: magnesium - confusion reigns :o, posted by Joe Bloe on March 28, 2007, at 2:50:33
If you go with the citrate, it frees you to take separate and measured doses of other substances. You can try taurine or glycine or whatever, under your complete control, rather than as the compounder of the blend has dictated.
400 mg of elemental magnesium might be enough to trigger diarrhea, though. It's in the ballpark for that symptom to arise, unless your body has become accustomed to receiving magnesium at that level.
Lar
Posted by iforgotmypassword on March 30, 2007, at 0:03:29
In reply to Re: magnesium - confusion reigns :o » Joe Bloe, posted by Larry Hoover on March 28, 2007, at 14:30:28
any easy way to do this? are there certain types of doctors that will do this on a trial basis? magnesium sulphate seems to be the one used.
i have ongoing eps-like problems and possible lyme (i test positive on wb igm)... but finding doctors this really means anything to is very difficult.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 7:20:56
In reply to IV magnesium, posted by iforgotmypassword on March 30, 2007, at 0:03:29
> any easy way to do this? are there certain types of doctors that will do this on a trial basis? magnesium sulphate seems to be the one used.
I don't know how likely it is to find a doctor who would give intravenous magnesium, despite the fact that the only accepted test of magnesium sufficiency is magnesium loading, i.e. give someone a heap of magnesium and see if they feel better for it.
Magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts) are used because they are available cheaply, in high purity, dissolve readily, and are easy to measure. Moreover, the elemental magnesium content is almost precisely 1/10 of the molecular weight (as the hydrated salt), permitting simple dose calculations.
The intravenous route is used for bolus exposures because the same dose that would potentially treat mag deficiency via IV would literally kill you if taken orally.
> i have ongoing eps-like problems and possible lyme (i test positive on wb igm)... but finding doctors this really means anything to is very difficult.
If you test positive on a Western blot, then you've been infected. End of story. If you haven't been treated with appropriate antibiotics, then you need such treatment. I don't know why anyone would have trouble finding a doctor who gets this. A doctor who ordered such a test would obviously understand the rationale for it, wouldn't they?
Lar
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