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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 14:30:52
In reply to amisulpride (Solian) » Quintal, posted by pseudoname on November 14, 2006, at 13:25:13
> Hi, Quintal. Nice to meet you.
>
> > Pseudoname, have you tried low dose amisulpride (50mg region) for your dysphoria?
>
> I have not tried amisulpride/Solian®. I live in the U.S., and as far as I understand, it's not available here at all. Where do you live or how do you get it? (In general terms I mean, not violating Bob's rules….)
>
> > Personally I find the effect of low dose amisulpride similar to the effect of Parnate Klonopin
>
> Maybe I should try Parnate Klonopin, then, eh? ECT terrifies me, and I don't know if I can manage it logistically. My life terrifies me. Maybe I should try Klonopin by itself, too.
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Hi Pseudoname. I live in the UK where I used to get amisulpride free on prescription. I was going to suggest you try sulpiride as an alternative but a web search revealed that neither of them are approved by the FDA for use in the US.
I'm sure I've heard of people using amisulpride in America though. In fact I saw a thread on this topic a few days ago. There are legal ways of obtaining amisulpride in the US as it is not an illicit drug as such, just has no current medical licence. You may be able to import it if you can convince your pdoc it is likely to be sufficiently effective for your problems. Amisulpride was found to be more effective in treating dysthymia and depression than Prozac in one study, I'm sure there are others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amisulpride
I would be surprised if Parnate amisulpride buprenorphine did not lift your dysthymia. Have you considered augmenting an MAOI and/or your buprenorphine with lamotrigine (Lamictal)? Lamotrigine also seems effective in preventing tolerance/sustaining the effects etc of opiates and possibly augmenting their effect, as well as being an effective antidepressant and mood stabilizer in itself. Here is one study I found that demonstrates this effect, but there are others that are more convincing: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/156/12/2017
I recall the legendary Elizabeth of buprenorphine solved her dysthymia problem by adding a pinch of lithium to her MAOI. Perhaps lamotrigine would have fewer side effects though?
Klonopin helps with jitteriness and insomnia caused by Parnate and obviously soothes any residual anxiety. I found that Parnate antagonised the sedative effect of Klonopin during the day (although it was still effective for anxiety), but sedation recurred at night when the stimulant effect of Parnate wore off, which was good as it helped me sleep soundly without additional meds.
I’m getting tired of playing the medication game myself as nothing worked for very long, either that or I abused it (Klonopin) and was forced to withdraw. As an alternative to ECT / psychosurgery / suicide I am going out on a limb and venturing to Peru to participate in an Ayahuasca healing ceremony. I’m terrified of Ayahuasca, and being a social phobe, going to Peru without my comforting meds is even more terrifying than the Aya itself. It is going to be the biggest challenge of my life but I see no meaning or direction in the way I’m living right now.
Have you considered something like this pseudoname? It may be even more difficult to manage logistically, but it may be an greater mental/spiritual shock than ECT, and I suspect it would give you much more insight and lasting benefit (and perhaps even some cognitive enhancement?) than ECT.
Just a thought.
Posted by pseudoname on November 18, 2006, at 14:30:52
In reply to Amisulpride and Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 14, 2006, at 16:19:47
> I live in the UK where I used to get amisulpride free on prescription.
You lucky duck. :-)
> Have you considered augmenting an MAOI and/or your buprenorphine with lamotrigine (Lamictal)?
That seems like something worth trying. I have a discussion appointment this afternoon with the ECT doc. If I can't get ECT on something like a once-a-week trial schedule, I won't be able to have it, I think, so I'll have to try some other meds.
Sulpride & amisulpride really seem to be ruled out for me. I just can't do the legally "alternative" route.
> Lamotrigine also seems effective in preventing tolerance/sustaining the effects etc of opiates and possibly augmenting their effect
Thanks for this info.
> I recall the legendary Elizabeth of buprenorphine solved her dysthymia problem by adding a pinch of lithium to her MAOI. Perhaps lamotrigine would have fewer side effects though?
Hmmm. Hmmm. Hmmm. You give me pharmacological hope, which I thought was impossible anymore.
> I am going out on a limb and venturing to Peru to participate in an Ayahuasca healing ceremony.
WOW! I thought I was going out on a limb getting acupuncture! Best wishes, Quintal. If nothing else, it will be a great trip. Enjoy yourself -- remember there's nothing anti-spiritual about having a good time on a trip, too.
> It is going to be the biggest challenge of my life
Going to Toronto in May to meet other Babblers was *something* like that for me. It got me out of my tiny little box that I seem to have crawled back into now.
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 14:30:52
In reply to Re: Amisulpride and Ayahuasca » Quintal, posted by pseudoname on November 15, 2006, at 12:33:40
The trimipramine lamotrigine buprenorphine sounds like a powerful antidepressant/antidysthymic combo but may be sedating. Would your pdoc be crazy enough to throw in a morning stimulant with that little cocktail? I am considering this myself as a maintenance treatment if Ayahuasca fails to have the desired effect.
>WOW! I thought I was going out on a limb getting acupuncture! Best wishes, Quintal. If nothing else, it will be a great trip. Enjoy yourself -- remember there's nothing anti-spiritual about having a good time on a trip, too.
I just received an email from Ali the translator in Peru telling me the shaman has kicked him out as he is blaming Ali for a recent chest infection. Peru is off, so I am probably going to have to go to Ireland, which will be cheaper and hopefully safer.
I'm choosing Ayahuasca partly because of its proven long-term effect on serotonin and other neurotransmitters at the physical level. I am interested in the spiritual dimension, but it also seems that one session of Ayahuasca gives a psychological insight equal to many years of psychoanalysis. I've never got very far with therapy because I tend to lie and make my problems sound less troublesome than they are, and also I find many things too embarrassing to discuss with a therapist. I find it hard to trust. I guess I will have no choice but to spill my guts when I've swallowed
the brew and this is why I think it may just work for me - no get out clause if only I can force myself to get as far as taking it.Does this seem crazy to you guys? I mean I'm no fan of alternative medicine as such and have a strong interest in western medicine, but my faith in pharmacology is waning as my doctors and pdoc have abandoned me and I'm looking for any reasonable alternative. Is acupuncture as far as you have taken the alternative thing pseudoname? They had a similar thing at the drug treatment centre I attended that ran electric currents through my body, supposedly to stimulate endorphins. I think it helped a little but you really need access to these things at home to get the full benefit.
Q
Posted by pseudoname on November 18, 2006, at 14:30:52
In reply to Re: Amisulpride and Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 15, 2006, at 17:24:17
> trimipramine lamotrigine buprenorphine [...] Would your pdoc be crazy enough to throw in a morning stimulant with that little cocktail?
I can ask her. She *is* a bit willing to experiment. The pdoc I saw for the ECT consult also recommended lamotrigine & Emsam -- but of course said go ahead with the ECT, too.
> Does this seem crazy to you guys?It sounds like you're willing to do whatever it may take. FOR MYSELF, a brew that would equal the insight I got out of 4 years of psychoanalysis would just make me consider 4 years of psychoanalysis largely a waste of my time.
> Is acupuncture as far as you have taken the alternative thing pseudoname?
I've done nutritional stuff a fair bit. That's all. The chiropractor who did my acupuncture also used current-generating devices (which hurt!). I agree with you that the dose required to get any real benefit out of that stuff in terms of neurotransmitters would have to be multiple times a day at home.
Posted by christophrejmc on November 18, 2006, at 14:30:52
In reply to Amisulpride and Ayahuasca, posted by Quintal on November 14, 2006, at 16:19:47
> I am going out on a limb and venturing to Peru to participate in an Ayahuasca healing ceremony.
That sounds great! I have a friend who consumed San Pedro (a mescaline-containing cacti) in South America with a shaman and had an extremely rewarding experience.
You probably already know this but, be aware that Ayahuasca contains plant-based MAOIs. I believe they are reversible MAOIs and very short acting, but it could cause problems if you're taking any antidepressants or other drugs that are contraindicated with MAOIs. I hope you aren't, because Ayahuasca sounds like a very fun/scary/happy/terrifying/wonderful experience.
-Chris
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 14:31:30
In reply to Ayahuasca » Quintal, posted by christophrejmc on November 16, 2006, at 22:30:57
Mescaline is one hallucinogen I would also like to try, but Ayahuasca seems to have more healing potential from everything I've learned about it. Iboga is another treatment I have considered but that is just way too scary for me right now!
I am aware of the pharmacology of Ayahuasca, here is a thoroughly researched article that describes this in detail for anyone interested: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ayahuasca/ayahuasca_journal3.shtml
I am seeking a healing ritual because I have just withdrawn cold turkey from benzos and opiates and I don't want to fall back into the hole I've just left. My pdoc and GP aren't interested and I've tried nearly all Rx meds so it looks as if I am going to have to use my own initiative in any case.
This may get moved to the alternative board but I'm posting it here as it seems to me a reasonable alternative for people considering ECT and see it as their only option, who may be unaware of Ayahuasca.
Q
Posted by Declan on November 18, 2006, at 14:31:30
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca » christophrejmc, posted by Quintal on November 17, 2006, at 9:49:21
One of the drugs in Ayahuasca is harmine (I think) and is a nice little hallucinogen with a gentlish touch.
I like this shaman/Peru business. Should do it myself.
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 14:31:30
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca, posted by Declan on November 17, 2006, at 16:51:51
The harmala alkaloids are also present in passionflower and passionfruit and are partly responsible for their psychoactive effects. I wonder if anyone has ever tripped out after overindulging on those juicy little fruits? Have you taken harmine yourself Declan?
I have some B.cappi in my cupboard but I'm afraid to make the full potion alone. Someone has suggested I take the B.cappi alone to get used to the hallucinogenic effects.
I am starting a thread on this in the alternative board as I don't want to incur the wrath of Dr. Bob for breaking posting guidelines.
Q
Posted by Quintal on November 18, 2006, at 14:31:30
In reply to Re: Ayahuasca » Declan, posted by Quintal on November 17, 2006, at 20:55:01
That reminds me of the warning my psychiatric nurse gave when I asked to increase the dose of moclobemide above 900mg - he discouraged it as he had seen people hallucinate at these levels. I was puzzled at the time, but it makes more sense in this context when you consider moclobemide is a synthetic RIMA, similar to the pharmacological profile of harmine.
This is the end of the thread.
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