![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Snowbunnie on October 20, 2006, at 20:19:03
Hi, I'm a new member here but I've been reading the board for quite a while now and you guys seem like you know your stuff.
I need something STRONG to reduce situtaional anxiety (like for a presentation I have coming up, or interviews). Preferably something I don't have to order online because I have to give a presentation in 2 days. Klonopin is out of the question; I could never get a prescription from the conservative docs here. Valerian and fish oil don't do anything for me. I know I could try theanine, picamilon, or passionflower but I really don't think they'll be strong enough -- I get so anxious in public speaking that my thoughts wildly race around in my head, it's like I have OCD symptoms (but never anytime else) and my heart rate is through the roof!
Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
Posted by Franz on October 20, 2006, at 23:22:45
In reply to Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking?, posted by Snowbunnie on October 20, 2006, at 20:19:03
> Hi, I'm a new member here but I've been reading the board for quite a while now and you guys seem like you know your stuff.
>
> I need something STRONG to reduce situtaional anxiety (like for a presentation I have coming up, or interviews). Preferably something I don't have to order online because I have to give a presentation in 2 days. Klonopin is out of the question; I could never get a prescription from the conservative docs here. Valerian and fish oil don't do anything for me. I know I could try theanine, picamilon, or passionflower but I really don't think they'll be strong enough -- I get so anxious in public speaking that my thoughts wildly race around in my head, it's like I have OCD symptoms (but never anytime else) and my heart rate is through the roof!
>
> Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!If valerian is not strong for you, then I don´t think you will find any OTC product that will help.
Have you tried magnesium, GABA and taurine?.
Can´t someone give you some propranolol?.
Once you pass this situation I would seek help.
Also, I would not try to experiment on new substances on that special date you can have unexpected problems (except from the aminos and minerals I think).
At least you can exercise and have a moderate dose of alcohol.
If you take pikamilon do it in small dosages.
Posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 0:14:40
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking? » Snowbunnie, posted by Franz on October 20, 2006, at 23:22:45
> If valerian is not strong for you, then I don´t think you will find any OTC product that will help.
>
> Have you tried magnesium, GABA and taurine?.
>
> Can´t someone give you some propranolol?.
>
> Once you pass this situation I would seek help.
>
> Also, I would not try to experiment on new substances on that special date you can have unexpected problems (except from the aminos and minerals I think).
>
> At least you can exercise and have a moderate dose of alcohol.
>
> If you take pikamilon do it in small dosages.
I haven't tried Gaba, magnesium, or taurine but I've heard a lot about gaba and have been wanting to try it. Do you think 750 mg would be good for my situation? I know I should go to the doc but I keep convincing myself it's not serious enough to warrant medication, but obviously it is.I know magnesium can help w/ depression but I didn't know it had anti-anxiety effects, so I may try that. Have you taken it, what was your experience? I appreciate the reply!!
Posted by nolvas on October 21, 2006, at 1:58:36
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speakin, posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 0:14:40
I know this is the alternative thread but beta blockers are highly recommended for public performances. Propranolol is safe and effective. Speak to your doctor about it. I've never had a problem getting Propranolol from the doctor. Diazepam is more powerful again, but it makes you feel groggy and forgetful in my experience.
The only alternative substances that I can think of that are powerful enough to help you are a high quality extract of Kava or better still prepare yourself from the raw root. (konakavafarm.com) If you are in the UK or some other countries it's banned though so you won't get it. The other is Phenibut which can be obtained from bulknutrition.com or various other places.
Posted by nolvas on October 21, 2006, at 2:05:06
In reply to Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking?, posted by Snowbunnie on October 20, 2006, at 20:19:03
You could try EFT as well, some people find it very effective, obviously it's not something you can do whilst speaking, but beforehand you can visualise the anxiety and tap it away. Worth a go and it's free.
http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse.htm
Posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 4:05:56
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speakin, posted by nolvas on October 21, 2006, at 1:58:36
Thanks for the suggestions nolvas. Kava is really interesting and I'll definitely try it out within the next couple of months. That kona website is supposed to be the best source for it too as I've heard.
I've never heard of the EFT thing and when I went to the website I had to laugh - tapping your problems away, lol! Has it actually worked for you or anyone you know? Seems like it'd be the placebo effect..
Posted by Franz on October 21, 2006, at 8:18:37
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speakin, posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 0:14:40
>
> > If valerian is not strong for you, then I don´t think you will find any OTC product that will help.
> >
> > Have you tried magnesium, GABA and taurine?.
> >
> > Can´t someone give you some propranolol?.
> >
> > Once you pass this situation I would seek help.
> >
> > Also, I would not try to experiment on new substances on that special date you can have unexpected problems (except from the aminos and minerals I think).
> >
> > At least you can exercise and have a moderate dose of alcohol.
> >
> > If you take pikamilon do it in small dosages.
>
>
> I haven't tried Gaba, magnesium, or taurine but I've heard a lot about gaba and have been wanting to try it. Do you think 750 mg would be good for my situation? I know I should go to the doc but I keep convincing myself it's not serious enough to warrant medication, but obviously it is.
>
> I know magnesium can help w/ depression but I didn't know it had anti-anxiety effects, so I may try that. Have you taken it, what was your experience? I appreciate the reply!!
>
>
Yes, magnesium works on catecholamine release, it could calm you. or maybe a combination of calcium - magnesium.Taurine is also stabilizing.
If you can try magnesium taurate and you get the two in one.
You have no time, so the best would be to exercise to cal and sleep well. You could try excercise just before the presentation or at least walk.
I sugest you try to go to the place before or with enough time ,be in the room where you have to talk and actually talk so you can have an idea of how your voice sounds and familiarize with the place. This can help.
Anyes, kava could work better than valerian. However I do not recommed to excperiment with new substances in the very occasion.
Good luck!
Posted by Franz on October 21, 2006, at 9:02:49
In reply to Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking?, posted by Snowbunnie on October 20, 2006, at 20:19:03
maybe ginger-ginkgo or ginger alone, see above posts
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5622704.html
ginger 100 mg
ginkgo 40 mg
Posted by nolvas on October 21, 2006, at 11:13:47
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking? » Snowbunnie, posted by Franz on October 21, 2006, at 9:02:49
Lysine and Arginine combined reduce stress/anxiety
http://www.vrp.com/art/1768.asp?c=1154222262750&k=/det/4372.asp&m=/&p=no&s=0
The combination of Ginger and Gingko as an anxiolytic is called Zingicomb.
Posted by Jlx on October 21, 2006, at 12:58:29
In reply to Re: Kava and EFT, posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 4:05:56
> I've never heard of the EFT thing and when I went to the website I had to laugh - tapping your problems away, lol! Has it actually worked for you or anyone you know? Seems like it'd be the placebo effect..
I highly recommend EFT. The link nolvas gave you has a good visual representation http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse3.htm of most of the tapping points, but I would recommend downloading (free) the EFT manual on the EFT founder's site: http://www.emofree.com/ To get the manual, you have to provide your e-mail address, but it's quick and I have not been spammed as a result.
I had a book about a similar technique several years ago that someone recommended and I thought it was effective for anxiety especially, but wasn't too enthusiastic about the whole idea because that book had different formulas for different purposes. I tried EFT specifically again when someone on this board mentioned it recently and was very glad she did.
I found EFT is easier because you use the same tapping points all the time, which are based on acupuncture meridian points. When I mentioned I was using EFT on another board, someone who thought meridians were nonsense, suggested it may work through a combination of "mindfulness" and self-hypnosis. EFT is considered part of "energy psychology" but even the founder acknowledges he can't really explain how it works. I don't really care why it works, only that it does, and it does for me. And if it's the placebo effect, I don't mind that either as I'm not putting anything foreign into my body or potentially harming myself in any way. (And recent research has demonstrated that something real is actually going on in the brain during the placebo effect.)
At any rate, it's free and all you're out is the little time it takes to learn and try the technique.
A few important things I've gleaned from reading many of the pages on the website are to drink water before an EFT session (and sometimes during), to be specific in the set-up phrase and to listen to the self-talk about what else an issue may be about.
Instead of the phrase "Even though I have this fear of public speaking..." or "Even though I'm nervous about giving this upcoming speech...." to say instead, "Even though I'm afraid my mind will go blank when I give this speech on Tuesday and..." or whatever *specifically* feels most nervewracking. I sometimes just stay with a tapping point until I can hear my mind say something opposite -- such as "I'm just so afraid that such and such will happen, blah, blah, blah....oh, it's ok". Usually there's a progression from when I start to when I finish. I may start out all emotional and before I'm done tapping even a round, my mind is wandering and I'm forgetting my reminder phrase. The first time this happens it seems really weird. ;)Sometimes I will just naturally finish a round or rounds of tapping with a positive affirmation that actually feels true and possible, because I've already tapped through the negativities.
For instance, I was really dreading an upcoming discussion with my boss at work the next day, anxious about the topic at hand and anticipating not being happy with the outcome. As I tapped I realized that one reason why I had so much emotion tied up into the issue was because I was projecting onto him the kind of judgment I received from my dad. Once I heard that going on in my head I tapped on that specifically..."Even though I'm anxious about this meeting tomorrow with Ron because it feels like he judges me just like Dad does which infuriates me, etc...." By the time I was done I was saying, "Oh, so what?", no longer feeling anxious and like I didn't want to go to work the next day. The next day at work I forgot we were to have the discussion until it was almost time to leave! Then as it turned out my boss didn't have time and it was all postponed until the following week when I didn't even bother to get nervous. :)
I think there's something about the paradoxical nature of the set-up phrase that releases things, such as unspecified fears and negativities. That's what EFT feels like to me -- that it gets things unstuck and onto a conscious level that would ordinarily be percolating in my subconscious manifesting in my behavior with anxieties, grief, other forms of pain and self-defeating behavior.
My first therapist when I was 18, clueless and having panic attacks, used to encourage me to ask myself, "What's the worst thing that can happen?" when I was anxious about something, and then to think in terms of consequences and choices. That's all EFT is doing too, only in a shortcut format that for me feels like it bridges the mind/body connection so that those feelings are actually let go from my body.
I've used EFT in conjunction with other things I've learned in therapy and elsewhere through the years such as tapping on accepting where I am, or giving myself permission "not" to do the "shoulds" I plague myself with.
Sorry, that was long-winded, but I'm still experimenting with EFT and find it just fascinating.
JL
Posted by Jlx on October 21, 2006, at 13:07:39
In reply to Re: EFT » Snowbunnie, posted by Jlx on October 21, 2006, at 12:58:29
I forgot to include these links in my previous post specific to EFT and public speaking:
http://www.emofree.com/Performance/stage-fright-melody.htm
http://www.emofree.com/articles/public-speaking-in-class.htm
Posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 15:00:38
In reply to Re: EFT and public speaking, posted by Jlx on October 21, 2006, at 13:07:39
Wow thank you for taking the time to write all that out. It sounds pretty intriguing, because from what you wrote and from what's written on the website, it seems like there's no rational explanation for why it works. Well they say it fixes your energy but is there any scientific evidence of this "energy system" in your body? Not to put down the method - I'm just skeptical about new things like this, that claim to be able to solve almost any problem. "You can use it from the common cold to cancer" as the website says. Hmm.
Maybe one reason it works to alleviate fears like public speaking for some people is because it forces you to rationally think about your fear, and when you do that you see there is really nothing to be scared of. It seems like there's something going on at the subconscious level too. Like maybe doing enough tapping convinces your stubborn subconscious mind to not be fearful. Well that is just my half baked guess as I haven't even tried it yet.
With me, it's like I rationally know that nothing bad can happen when I'm giving a presentation - even if people are yawning or leaving it's not too bad because it's not a personal attack against ME. The topic I have to present on is just really boring lol. And yet I still have some anxiety. So at the subconscious level maybe there's a fear of something else, like being evaluated by my peers. hmm..
Another interesting thing: EFT touches on the meridian points like acupuncture does, but acupuncture works for tons of people even though there is no affirmation statement involved. But on the other hand, most people I know who've gone through acupuncture say the results last for only a couple of days at the most, while EFT sounds like it's much more long-term.. So maybe if you say affirmations while getting acupuncture you will permanently be cured! jk, that would be nice.
I will definitely try this - thanks for sparking my interest jlx!
Posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 7:57:14
In reply to Something to reduce anxiety for public speaking?, posted by Snowbunnie on October 20, 2006, at 20:19:03
I've found something interesting for you >
"Anxiety
A recent study of 29 subjects with “relatively high trait anxiety” showed that dual supplementation with L-lysine and L-arginine (3 g each/day) caused a normalization of hormonal responses during psychosocial stress — i.e., the pattern of stress-related hormones that high-anxiety people experience during stressful experiencies (such as public speaking) was modified by the supplements so that it resembled that experienced by low-anxiety people"
Notice that it specifically mentions public speaking!
Both these aminos are extremely easy to obtain and are cheap. Arginine tastes absolutely vile though! So it's wise to get the combination capped.I recommend >
https://www.jomarlabs.com/main/index.asp
They are reliable and very high quality, and importantly offer custom combinations of amino acids.
Posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 7:59:21
In reply to Re: Something to reduce anxiety for public speakin, posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 7:57:14
I keep double posting I know sorry about that, however it seems to be accepted on this forum due to how it's implemented.
Here is the study to backup my previous post.
Posted by Jlx on October 22, 2006, at 9:49:37
In reply to Re: EFT and public speaking, posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 15:00:38
> Wow thank you for taking the time to write all that out. It sounds pretty intriguing, because from what you wrote and from what's written on the website, it seems like there's no rational explanation for why it works. Well they say it fixes your energy but is there any scientific evidence of this "energy system" in your body? Not to put down the method - I'm just skeptical about new things like this, that claim to be able to solve almost any problem. "You can use it from the common cold to cancer" as the website says. Hmm.
Well, it says you can "use it" -- as a technique -- which isn't quite the same thing as saying it will work. I don't think Gary Craig is suggesting that someone eschew conventional cancer treatments in favor of EFT. I think EFT may work as part of the healing process to the extent of the body mind connection to whatever one's ailment. That's how I see it primarily -- as that bridge. And I don't think we really know that much about the power of the mind to affect the body, or vice versa. I don't think we really know that much about the brain.
I just recently heard of "mirror neurons" and when I looked it up found this intriguing page: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3204/01-resup.html What other kinds of specialized neurons might we have?
Re scientific evidence of an "energy system" in the body, I don't know. I didn't read much on the website about the underlying theory, in part because I didn't want to influence myself with getting too "in my head" about it all as I wanted to just give it a good try. With the meridians, I believe they are referring to the concept of "qi", which the more literal minded deny exists. There's an interesting discussion of qi on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi
I try to be reasonably skeptical about things, but at some point I'm willing to consider the metaphysical if it takes me where I want to go. Whether there is an energy field within the body and/or whether we are part of a greater energy field that we can affect with our minds, I don't know. Some people have described "doing EFT" only on a mental level -- not physically tapping -- which would seem to bely the meridian theory. Some others have talked about "surrogate tapping" as if they are participating in affecting matter one some level that defies current scientific explanation. I'm more inclined to believe that we're more likely affecting our own perception in those cases.
I started using EFT when someone on this board started a thread about TAT http://www.tat-intl.com/ and then someone else mentioned EFT. I haven't tried TAT as I like the physical aspects of tapping which I think may be similar to people using a rosary to pray or "worry beads" -- combining the distraction of the body movement with direction of our thoughts in a type of meditation we wouldn't achieve otherwise with ordinary thinking.
I don't care if EFT is a form of meditation, "mindfulness", suggestibility, self-hypnosis, placebo effect, the power of positive thinking, or something "real" affecting qi or energy as long as it accomplishes something I deem useful and effective. I think it's plausible that the body may have an energy system. I think it's also plausible that the brain may effectively use the concept of "the body has an energy system" whether there is one or not.
We live subjectively, in a world of perception and created reality -- not when it comes to such things as trying to defy gravity, of course -- but certainly in terms of emotions, the experience of physical and emotional pain, memory, meaning and connection. I see EFT as a tool to help me explore my world in a different manner from conventional therapy, journaling, relaxation or any of the other techniques I've used through the years to try to achieve more peace of mind and freedom from crippling emotions and negative beliefs.
I just like it. :)
JL
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 22, 2006, at 12:35:14
In reply to Re: Kava and EFT, posted by Snowbunnie on October 21, 2006, at 4:05:56
Well just wanted to add (I've already mentioned this before but hey) there was some show in UK where someone cured about 40 people who were so terrified of flying that they had never flown. In two days he had them up in a plane flying away. They were so terrified before that they wouldn't even go in a flight simulator!!
Anyway the guy in the show used 4 methods and one of them was the tapping thing. They had to tap on their wrists and foreheads and say something, I can't remember what it was.
Anyway just to say that it does work!
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 13:39:18
In reply to the tapping thing..., posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 22, 2006, at 12:35:14
I wonder if it was Paul McKenna, he's an advocate of EFT. I first ever heard of EFT when he described it in a radio interview. I even remember where I was when I heard it. So maybe it was a momentous occasion hehe.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 22, 2006, at 14:02:50
In reply to Re: the tapping thing..., posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 13:39:18
No it wasn't Paul Mckenna....but some other similar person. I actually didn't like Mckenna's shows - you know those ones ages and ages ago where he got people to do stupid stuff.
But this other guy was pretty good. I'll see if I can find some links:
The progamme:
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/mind/wwr_phobias.html
The guy on the programme:
http://www.lawrenceleyton.com/
Anyway he doesn't actually say anywhere what techniques he uses, but on the programme he definately used the tapping thing and made a point of saying that it was on those meridian accupressure point things...
Anyway, he looks abit phoney, but those people were no actors and they definately were flying by the end of the show!!
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 14:12:10
In reply to Re: the tapping thing... » nolvas, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 22, 2006, at 14:02:50
Looks like he's using the standard NLP Fast Phobia Cure and some E.F.T.
The founder of NLP is Richard Bandler and John Grinder. I find despite a colourful past Richard Bandler is a very inspiring and genuine person bordering on genius. The way he thinks is brilliant, have a listen or watch some of his seminars some time. You can find them cheap on ebay.
Posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 14:16:17
In reply to Re: the tapping thing..., posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 14:12:10
I searched some old .docs I had and found the method. As simple as E.F.T really >
"The NLP Fast Phobia/Trauma Cure
This interesting technique was first devised by one of the developer's of NLP, Dr Richard Bandler. Since then it has been improved upon by several NLP practitioners and today the following version, described by Connirae & Steve Andreas in their most useful book "Heart of the Mind" is probably the best known.
(The word trauma here has a very general meaning - could be an accident, seeing someone come to harm, losing a job, a relationship.)
1 Imagine you're sitting in a move theatre all by yourself, looking up at a blank screen.
2 Put a black and white still shot of yourself the day before the trauma (or before the phobic reaction, or before you ever met the person you have broken up with).
3 Float up out of your chair into the projection booth at the back of the theatre. Notice the window glass is very thick and you are completely cut off from the theatre, although you can see and hear everything.
4 Start to run a movie starting from the still shot and moving all the way through the trauma, finishing well after the traumatic event is over and everything has returned to normal. This movie will take just a few minutes (ie, it is fast). It is absolutely vital that you feel detached as the movie is playing. To do this you keep in mind that you are merely watching yourself down below, who is in turn watching the movie. If you feel any distress whatsoever, distance yourself further by imagining you are going down to check on ticket sales, or perhaps pop down to the corner to buy a hotdog while the movie comes to completion.
5 Freeze the last frame of the movie, making sure it is a shot in which you look relaxed and comfortable.
6 Jump into the still frame (ie, associate into the movie as if you are actually in it).
7 Turn the frame big, bright and colourful.
8 Run the movie backwards really, really fast, just seconds like a really rapid rewind. Feel yourself being pulled backwards all the way through the movie in just seconds, all the way back to the beginning (the still frame of you at the start).
9 Come out from the beginning the movie, go and jump in the end again, make sure it's big and bright and colourful, and repeat 8.
10 Repeat 7, 8 and 9 several times, very rapidly."
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 22, 2006, at 15:17:16
In reply to Re: the tapping thing..., posted by nolvas on October 22, 2006, at 14:12:10
Thanks for the info..I downloaded the manual and will print it off tomorrow.
Will they work for my fears of poisening myself?? I actually had a bit of an anxiety thing going on just now -- I was drinking some tea a couple of hours ago containing chamomile and I was just reading up about it, and anyway I managed to somehow convince myself I was allergic to chamomile.....I don't think I am - yesterday I was using handcream with chamomile in it, I don't have any allergies to anything at all (that includes anything in the asterace family I might add - which I have a pollen exam next monday -asterace pollen are nice and easy to idendify!!) and I think I have drunk chamomile before in the past anyway....
Still...... heaven help me!
I thought chamomile is supposed to stop panic and not give it!! Although I have to say that it wasn't as bad as they have been....
Kind regardsMeri
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.