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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by windygo on December 7, 2005, at 21:19:31
ANNOUNCING ...
The Lithium Orotate Project (LiOr)
http://www.pressenter.com/~wdfvag/LiOr/home.htmlAre you taking lithium orotate for bipolar disorder or depression? Or another condition?
Wouldn't you like to know more about LiOr? Is it truly safe?
Does the orotate really work at a small fraction of the dose required for lithium carbonate?
Do you wish there were more scientific research, less marketing hype?Following some promising but uncontrolled research studies, mainstream psychiatry took a look at lithium orotate in the late 1970's. An investigation in rats fed an enormous dose found serious kidney damage, although no such problems were observed in a previous study at lower doses. The lower dose was still equivalent to 2100 mg of lithium carbonate in humans, far exceeding the doses of the orotate normally used. Nevertheless, the influential author of the second paper recommended against further use of LiOr. There has been only one publication since, an uncontrolled clinical study of alcoholics.
If LiOr really works and its efficacy and safety are clearly demonstrated, that would be a major breakthrough in psychiatry! It seems a terrible shame to let a single study in rats halt the study of a promising new medication. The research on lithium orotate has been truly minimal. The goal of my project is to gather information about the safety and efficacy of LiOr and encourage further research if warranted by safety studies.
This is a “grassroots” effort. I have a background in scientific research but no medical credentials, no funding, no laboratory, or no clinic. What I do have is you and your laboratory results, if you have taken LiOr and are willing to participate in a survey. It turns out that kidney function can be studied with a simple and commonly performed blood test, creatinine. Chances are you've had this test, as part of a routine chemistry panel, one or more times before and after you started taking LiOr. If humans who have taken the orotate are shown to have normal kidney function, then that should be enough to rekindle the interest of serious researchers to find out whether LiOr really works and why.
I am very fortunate to have the informal support of Dr. Jim Phelps (http://www.psycheducation.org/), an Oregon psychiatrist and expert on bipolar disorder who has graciously assisted in the study design. Dr. Phelps will also help with the data interpretation and getting the results published and circulated among researchers. So our roots will have a chance to grow into something big!
My project is described in detail on the website listed above. The site also provides a lot of pertinent background information that I hope you'll enjoy exploring. Thanks for taking a look!
Now for the pep talk! If you’re interested in the results of this study (to be posted on the website), then you should participate if you can – for there will be no results without the help of people like you! I know of one organization that once tried a survey. Over the following months they fielded a large number of calls from people wanting to find out the results. But not one of these callers had filled it out! Well, there are three good incentives for you to answer this one:
(1) You’re doing a good deed, possibly helping a large number of people discover a better form of lithium.
(2) The survey is easy to fill out online – no stamps, no trips to the mailbox, and ready assistance by email or phone should you have questions.
(3) Last but not least, everyone who legitimately fills it out is a winner! A lithium orotate supplier will send you a complimentary bottle of their product.
May all be well with you,
Wayne Federer, Ph.D.
Posted by linkadge on December 7, 2005, at 21:45:27
In reply to Lithium orotate research project, posted by windygo on December 7, 2005, at 21:19:31
I take regular lithium, and would take ororate, if I could afford it.
I wonder if lithium ororoate is capable of influencing PKC, GSK-3b, BCL-2, etc at the proposed concentrations.
Linkadge
Posted by windygo on December 8, 2005, at 7:17:23
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate research project, posted by linkadge on December 7, 2005, at 21:45:27
Linkadge,
1. Regarding the cost of lithium orotate, you should know that it varies by a factor of 4 or 5. The least expensive brand can be had for an annual cost of about $67 if you take a typical LiOr dose of 3 tablets. (The insurance company is likely to pay more than this for regular lithium. And some people get by with only one tablet of LiOr.) And the manufacturer of that brand sells it to another supplier that relabels it and sells it for 4 times as much! If you want to check it out for yourself, a good place to start is my Brands/Manufacturers/Vendors page at http://www.pressenter.com/~wdfvag/LiOr/mfrvendors.html
But please understand I'm NOT trying to push the stuff! I just want the information out there. Personally I can tolerate LiOr (no side effects) but never could tolerate LiCO3. But neither of them works for me.
2. My project is aimed at getting research done on LiOr that will eventually answer questions such as this.
Wayne
> I take regular lithium, and would take ororate, if I could afford it.
>
> I wonder if lithium ororoate is capable of influencing PKC, GSK-3b, BCL-2, etc at the proposed concentrations.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by linkadge on December 8, 2005, at 9:17:28
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate research project » linkadge, posted by windygo on December 8, 2005, at 7:17:23
I don't know how one would go about billing an insurance company for a nonprescription supplement.
Linkadge
Posted by windygo on December 8, 2005, at 9:24:35
In reply to Re: Lithium orotate research project, posted by linkadge on December 8, 2005, at 9:17:28
All I was trying to say is the REAL cost of taking LiOr is no greater than that of conventional Li. Of course, if you do have insurance coverage for your regular Li, then you will pay more for the LiOr. But it's still a relatively affordable supplement as such things go. Sorry for the confusion.
Wayne
> I don't know how one would go about billing an insurance company for a nonprescription supplement.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by windygo on December 12, 2005, at 12:15:20
In reply to Re: Cost of LiOr, posted by windygo on December 8, 2005, at 9:24:35
You may be interested to read what someone else has to say about my LiOr research project. A front-page, 2-part article is up on the BPW website:
and
http://www.bipolarworld.net/News/lithoro.htm
Wayne
Posted by Jakeman on December 12, 2005, at 21:03:24
In reply to LiOr feature article in Bipolar World, posted by windygo on December 12, 2005, at 12:15:20
>>
> http://www.bipolarworld.net/News/lithoro.htm
>This link didn't work (for me).
There's been several discussions on this site about lithium orotate. You may want to search those and add a comment about your survey.warm regards ~Jake
Posted by windygo on December 13, 2005, at 9:28:45
In reply to Re: LiOr feature article in Bipolar World » windygo, posted by Jakeman on December 12, 2005, at 21:03:24
Jake,
Thanks so very much for pointing out the dropped link on Bipolar World. The second page moved yesterday to http://www.bipolarworld.net/Bipolar%20News/lithoro.htm
I have asked the folks at BPW to correct their link.As previously, the first page remains at http://www.bipolarworld.net/
Wayne
This is the end of the thread.
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