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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2005, at 23:12:47
Has anyone ever heard of taking Vita D as a supplement? My D levels were low after being tested at Washington DC Taste and Smell Clinic. Besides that I have to take theophylline l00 increasing for decreased taste and smell. Zinc was another option but Dr. wanted the theophylline. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Ktemene on August 15, 2005, at 9:09:27
In reply to Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr, posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2005, at 23:12:47
> Has anyone ever heard of taking Vita D as a supplement? My D levels were low after being tested at Washington DC Taste and Smell Clinic. Besides that I have to take theophylline l00 increasing for decreased taste and smell. Zinc was another option but Dr. wanted the theophylline. Fondly, Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
There were a couple of important threads on Vitamin D last winter and last year. It seems there is now a big fight in the medical community about how much Vitamin D people really need- and many doctors think that the recommended levels of D should be raised. There is a lot of evidence that low levels of Vitamin D can lead to depression (and lots of other health problems). Low levels of Vitamin D might explain a lot about why you have been feeling bad lately. Below are the URS's for the threads, and I have copied an article about Vitamin D and depression.
Ktemene
poster:Elainep thread:9730
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050202/msgs/451941.htmlposter:JLx thread:410247
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20041022/msgs/410247.htmlVitamin D May Ease Depression
Low Blood Levels of Vitamin D May Be Linked to Cause of Depression
By Sid Kirchheimer
WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD
on Tuesday, August 03, 2004
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Aug. 2, 2004 -- Vitamin D supplementation, shown in recent studies to help lower risk of certain cancers, multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and other conditions, may also relieve depression, according to new research.Canadian researchers say the benefit of supplementation may come in creating stores of this vital vitamin in the bloodstream to carry people through the dreary months of winter, when a lack of sunlight may lead to or worsen mood disorders -- most notably seasonal affective disorder, the aptly acronymed SAD that affects some 11 million Americans.
Patients with this so-called "winter depression" are advised to treat the condition with a special "light box" that mimics the effects of sunlight during winter months.
Problem From Low Blood Levels?
For this study, published in the July issue of Nutrition Journal, the researchers first identified 130 patients whose blood levels of vitamin D in the summer were considered normal -- about 24 ng/mL. However, some researchers believe that many Americans are vitamin D-deficient and that their blood level may be too low.
"If a patient measures at 24 ng/mL or less in the summer, it will likely drop to 16 ng/mL in the winter because the value you have in the summer is greater than what you'll have in February," says lead researcher Reinhold Vieth, PhD, a vitamin D researcher at Mt. Sinai Hospital in Toronto.
He then gave those patients a questionnaire to gauge their likelihood of depression. Those whose answers suggested a strong possibility of depression were then given supplements containing a daily dose of either 600 or 4,000 international units (IUs) of Vitamin D. They started taking the supplements in summer and continued through the winter.
The patients were re-evaluated a year later. With both doses, patients suffering from depression improved as their vitamin D levels increased to at least 40 ng/mL, what some vitamin D researchers recommend as a normal blood level.
"If I were to provide advice, I would say that anyone in North America should be able to walk into any drug store and buy 1,000 IU vitamin D supplements. And if you consume those supplements every day, you should feel better," Vieth tells WebMD. "It appeared that instead of feeling worse in the winter, they actually felt better with the supplements."
How Much Is Enough?The Institute of Medicine recommends 200 IU a day up to the age of 50, 400 IU from 51 to 70, and 600 IU over age 70. About 100 IU are found in an 8 ounce glass of fortified milk. Other nutritional sources of Vitamin D include:
*
Canned pink salmon: 3 ounces contain about 530 IU of Vitamin D
*Canned sardines: 3 ounces contain about 231 IU of Vitamin D
*Fortified orange juice: 8 ounces contain about 100 IU of vitamin D
*Fortified cereal: 1 serving (about 1 cup) contains about 40-50 IU of vitamin D
In his study, Vieth found benefit from both dosages, although those taking 4,000 IU -- 10 times higher than what it found in most multivitamin supplements -- showed the most benefit.
"If you were to take 600 IUs forever, you'd be doing fine," he says. "But if you haven't taken supplements, taking the 4,000 dose over one winter is better."
These findings come as no surprise to John Cannell, MD, who heads the Vitamin D Council, a group of doctors and researchers who study the effects of this nutrient. He is staff psychiatrist at Atascadero State Hospital, a California psychiatric hospital.
"Basically, what vitamin D does is increase levels of the [chemical] serotonin in the brain," he tells WebMD. Many antidepressant medications work the same way.
"About 90% of patients in my hospital are vitamin D deficient, and I put them on a vitamin D regimen, and it does improve their mood disorders," says Cannell. "It also raises their vitamin D blood levels to above what is considered normal, to about the 40 ng/mL levels."
Don't Stop Other Medication
His advice: First get a simple blood test to measure blood levels of vitamin D. If it falls under 40 ng/mL, he recommends taking daily supplements of at least 600 IU and up to 10,000 IU a day. However, if you are currently taking antidepressants, don't stop taking those drugs if you begin taking the vitamin supplements.
"What this study suggests that is vitamin D deficiency may be an explanation for depression, and that boosting vitamin D levels may help prevent or ease symptoms," Cannell tells WebMD. "But how much vitamin D you need depends on several factors, such as the environment you live in, what time of year it is, your skin type, and sun exposure.
"Taking 4,000 IUs may sound like a lot, but there has never been a single reported case of toxicity at levels up to 20,000 IUs a day," he says. "Your body takes in about that much from sunlight by spending 20 minutes outdoors ... during the summer months. The problem is what happens in winter, when sunlight -- and vitamin D -- is in shorter supply."
Posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2005, at 18:55:44
In reply to Re: Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr » Phillipa, posted by Ktemene on August 15, 2005, at 9:09:27
Hey Thanks! The Dr. drew blood but the biochemist said it was for CBC and electrolytes. Could he have gotten this info from the 24hour urine? I just bought 70mg tabs of D from GNC. How much do you think I should take? I am very depressed and anxious. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Pfinstegg on August 15, 2005, at 20:58:29
In reply to Re: Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr » Phillipa, posted by Ktemene on August 15, 2005, at 9:09:27
If you are peri-menopausal, my internist wants women to take 1500 mg. of Calcim/Magnesium, and recently upped the rec- ommended dose of Vit D from 400 to 800 IU. I'm doing that- not sure if it's effective for depression, as I'm doing a number of other things for that, but I think it's probably ideal for osteoporosis prevention
Posted by teejay on August 15, 2005, at 21:01:43
In reply to Re: Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr » Ktemene, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2005, at 18:55:44
Those tabs should be 10 micrograms not 70 milligrams I think.
10 micrograms equates to 400iu
I've been taking it on and off now for around 8 months. Can't say if its been a big help or not, but on the whole I am feeling a bit better so perhaps some of the improvement is down to the Vit D.
I was taking 3 of those 10 microgram a day for around 3 months and have tapered off to a maintenance dose of approx 1 a day now.
TJ
Posted by Ktemene on August 15, 2005, at 23:32:05
In reply to Re: Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr » Ktemene, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2005, at 18:55:44
> Hey Thanks! The Dr. drew blood but the biochemist said it was for CBC and electrolytes. Could he have gotten this info from the 24hour urine? I just bought 70mg tabs of D from GNC. How much do you think I should take? I am very depressed and anxious. Fondly, Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
I think that a blood test is how levels of Vitamin D are checked. The article I copied in my last post quotes a doctor who thinks that 4,000 IU's per day is safe and he recommends that level of supplementation for depressed patients who are low in Vitamin D. Other doctors think the 2,000 IU's per day should be the upper limit. Other doctors put the upper limit at 800 IU's per day. There is a big debate in the U.S. medical community going on about the optimum Vitamin D level right now. Of course it is also true that in the U.K. it is common for doctors to give patients in nursing homes (who are rarely exposed to direct sunlight) 100,000 IU's of Vitamin D in a single dose. But even so, the doctors who think that 800 IU's of Vitamin D should be the upper limit do have a case to make: Vitamin D can increase the body's absorption of calcium, and this can be bad. But finding the right level of Vitamin D supplementation for you is something that you and your doctor should do together. The most important thing to bear in mind is that there is a clear association between Vitamin D deficiency and depression (and lots of other medical problems). But the good news is that it is easy and very safe to correct a Vitamin D deficiency if you work with your doctor to find the proper level of supplementation and have your Vitamin D levels checked regularly. I have copied below a few abstracts that it might be useful for you to discuss with your doctor.
And by the way I agree with Pfinstegg that low levels of calcium and magnesium can contribute to anxiety as well. It seems that most people in the U.S. get less than the recommended level of magnesium, and low levels of magnesium can cause more stress and lead to yet lower levels of magnesium in a vicious cycle.
Ktemene
Posted by Ktemene on August 15, 2005, at 23:37:57
In reply to Re: Was Told To Take Vita D Supplement by Dr » Ktemene, posted by Phillipa on August 15, 2005, at 18:55:44
P.S. I forgot to include the abstracts! There they are:
Efficacy and Safely of vitamin D3 intake exceeding the lowest observed adverse effect level
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11157326
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/73/2/288
Why the optimal requirement for Vitamin D3 is probably much higher than what is officially recommended for adults.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15225842Vitamin D requirements: current and future
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/6/1735S
Randomized comparison of the effects of the vitamin D3 adequate intake versus 100 mcg (4000 IU) per day on biochemical responses and the wellbeing of patients
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15260882
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