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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maggie1970 on May 21, 2005, at 13:14:08
Can anyone suggest anything? I am so down, I am feeling faithless, just can't see anything bright in the future. I am scared.
So I tried SSRI's which I never want to do again. I take dexadrine for focusing, and it actually is good for social anxiety with my klonopin, but I crash on dexadrine in the weirdest, hopeless feeling kind of way. So I don't want to take any today and feel any more hopeless. That would scare me to feel any worse.
I've been taking Omega- 3's, every day. I took L-tyrosine today. I also take L-glutamine sometimes because I thought I read somewhere it is good to use with benzo's, because they work better or faster (am I remembering the wrong one?)
I also took some Rescue Remedy today.
Can anyone recommend anything for depression that I could buy today? I feel absolutely scared at how down I am. Thanks, Maggie
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 22, 2005, at 10:02:50
In reply to am toooo depressed, posted by maggie1970 on May 21, 2005, at 13:14:08
> Can anyone suggest anything? I am so down, I am feeling faithless, just can't see anything bright in the future. I am scared.
Hi maggie. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling this distress.
I'm also sorry I didn't notice your post sooner. Maybe you can get some help here.
> So I tried SSRI's which I never want to do again. I take dexadrine for focusing, and it actually is good for social anxiety with my klonopin, but I crash on dexadrine in the weirdest, hopeless feeling kind of way. So I don't want to take any today and feel any more hopeless. That would scare me to feel any worse.
> I've been taking Omega- 3's, every day.
What omega-3's? They are not all the same. They are a class of fatty acids, with a number of different members. Each has its own distinct effect.
> I took L-tyrosine today.
That might make you feel a little edgier.
> I also take L-glutamine sometimes because I thought I read somewhere it is good to use with benzo's, because they work better or faster (am I remembering the wrong one?)
L-glutamine is an anti-stress/anti-anxiety amino, and it may possibly potentiate a benzo by enhancing GABA synthesis.
You might get immediate effects from niacinamide. That's a special form of vitamin B3. Niacinamide directly affects the same receptor as benzos hit, activating them partially, even in the absence of GABA or a benzo. Up to 500 mg/dose, as needed, but not to exceed 2000 mg/day.
> I also took some Rescue Remedy today.
Bach?
> Can anyone recommend anything for depression that I could buy today?
Depression is a little harder to hit quickly than anxiety.
Still, taurine might do the trick. It's an inhibitory amino acid. I sense that your depression is partly mediated by stress/anxiety. Just feeling some relief is antidepressant in itself. Up to 2 grams per dose, as needed.
Some people report very fast response to SAMe (S-adenosyl methionine). 5-HTP can also have an immediate effect. So can l-tryptophan.
Fish oil can have effects immediately (I've heard of that, though rare), and can show general improvement after one week. 5 grams/day, with meals
Have you tried St. John's wort? I felt that immediately, although delayed reactions also occur. It has multiple modes of action, so there are immediate and cumulative effects.
Another option is Siberian Ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus)
Another is Ashwaghanda (Withania somnifera)
Trimethylglycine (also known as anhydrous betaine) gives me an immediate mood/energy boost. Dose is highly variable in different people. I can tolerate 500 mg, but some people take 10 times that amount.
> I feel absolutely scared at how down I am. Thanks, Maggie
I'm really sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. I regret you didn't hear a reply yesterday.
Hope. We have lots of hope here. We can help.
Lar
Posted by maggie1970 on May 22, 2005, at 11:41:44
In reply to Re: am toooo depressed » maggie1970, posted by Larry Hoover on May 22, 2005, at 10:02:50
Thank you so much Larry for writing back. You are so right about the L-tyrosine making me more agitated. Really edgy. I didn't know if it was just me, so it feels good to hear from someone that it can do that. Very validating. No more of that for me!
The omega 3's are from omega brite. My boyfriend found out about them from Mclean (in Belmont, MA) where a doctor (Dr. Andy Stoll) there was doing research on them. They have 150 mg of DHA, 1,050 mg of EPA, 125 mg of other omega 3's, 65 mg of omega 6, 105 of other fatty acid. (It says it provides 90% pure omega 3, and 70% EPA (7:1 EPA/DHA). None of this makes any sense to me, maybe it will to you :)
It sounds like l-glutamine would be good for me then. The ones I am using are Solgar, 500 mg, I've been taking one a day. Should I take more?
I am going to go to the store today for Niacinamide and Taurine. I'm a vegetarian, and wonder sometimes if I miss on some nutrients when I don't eat enough of something or another.
It is the Bach Rescue Remedy that I used. To be honest, I have no cluse if it did anything, but a girl at the vitamin store suggested the l-tyrosine and rescue remedy.
I've tried SAMe before and it seemed to make me a little edgier, though did wonders for my sister. Strange. Different chemistry maybe? I did try 5-htp, it was a few years ago, but I think that did make a bit of a difference. Does that become l-tryptophan? Would I be better off buying l-tryptophan, or 5-htp? Or am I way off about those being related?
I did try St. John's wort a long time ago and didn't feel anything, but am willing to try again.
I am very curious about the Trimethylglycine, and how it gave you an immediate boost. I could use something like that to drag me out. Maybe I will be able to find that as well. I am taking a printout of your post with me.
Thank you Larry. Being heard, answered, and having suggestions has already given hope, where I felt none. Thank you so much.
Maggie> Hope. We have lots of hope here. We can help.
>
> Lar
Posted by JLx on May 23, 2005, at 0:28:21
In reply to Re: am toooo depressed, posted by maggie1970 on May 22, 2005, at 11:41:44
Hi Maggie,
Do you take magnesium? If you are, in the form of magnesium oxide, it may not be doing you much good as mg oxide is not very absorbable. Better forms are magnesium glycinate and magnesium taurate for a calming effect. Other good sources are magnesium citrate and magnesium malate. I have not yet tried magnesium orotate but that may be good too.
Magnesium has been EXTREMELY helpful to me. It has completely taken away my formerly frequent suicidal ideation and despair -- reliably for two years now. Magnesium is depleted by stress, diets high in sugar and refined carbohydrate, high protein diets, medications, extreme exercise and may be impossible to obtain per diet under "depressive" circumstances. For me, magnesium had an immediate good effect.
I also virtually eliminated calcium from my diet then for a time too. Calcium can be excitotoxic to the brain in high amounts unalleviated by the proper ratio to magnesium. Calcium overload for me is characterized by a teariness, overly emotionally volatile, "just can't cope" feeling -- relieved in hours by a dose of magnesium. I felt this way for years and never knew what it was!
Irritability and sensitivity to noise are symptoms of magnesium deficiency. If the TMG makes you irritable, try more magnesium.
Before I started taking magnesium, I tried tyrosine and it made me feel mean and extremely short tempered, not my usual self at all. (Wellbutrin did the same thing). I can take tyrosine now and feel ok.
Since you're a vegetarian, you may be eating a lot of magnesium rich foods such as seeds and nuts BUT since mg is depleted by stress and it sounds like you are under stress, it may still not be enough. One quick thing you can do to see how more magnesium feels is to take an Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) bath.
I know that L-glutamine is recommended by some for depression, but I have found it to have a bad effect at doses more than 500 mg occasionally. For me that bad effect takes the form of suicidal ideation and despair. (Taurine is the antidote for this.)
You should also be taking B vitamins probably. And Vit C for stress.
Any post I make after midnight is usually something of a mess, so I apologize for this one. (I'm up so late because I'm nervous about a job interview tomorrow.)
Welcome to the board, I hope you stick around. :)
JL
> Thank you so much Larry for writing back. You are so right about the L-tyrosine making me more agitated. Really edgy. I didn't know if it was just me, so it feels good to hear from someone that it can do that. Very validating. No more of that for me!
> The omega 3's are from omega brite. My boyfriend found out about them from Mclean (in Belmont, MA) where a doctor (Dr. Andy Stoll) there was doing research on them. They have 150 mg of DHA, 1,050 mg of EPA, 125 mg of other omega 3's, 65 mg of omega 6, 105 of other fatty acid. (It says it provides 90% pure omega 3, and 70% EPA (7:1 EPA/DHA). None of this makes any sense to me, maybe it will to you :)
> It sounds like l-glutamine would be good for me then. The ones I am using are Solgar, 500 mg, I've been taking one a day. Should I take more?
> I am going to go to the store today for Niacinamide and Taurine. I'm a vegetarian, and wonder sometimes if I miss on some nutrients when I don't eat enough of something or another.
> It is the Bach Rescue Remedy that I used. To be honest, I have no cluse if it did anything, but a girl at the vitamin store suggested the l-tyrosine and rescue remedy.
> I've tried SAMe before and it seemed to make me a little edgier, though did wonders for my sister. Strange. Different chemistry maybe? I did try 5-htp, it was a few years ago, but I think that did make a bit of a difference. Does that become l-tryptophan? Would I be better off buying l-tryptophan, or 5-htp? Or am I way off about those being related?
> I did try St. John's wort a long time ago and didn't feel anything, but am willing to try again.
> I am very curious about the Trimethylglycine, and how it gave you an immediate boost. I could use something like that to drag me out. Maybe I will be able to find that as well. I am taking a printout of your post with me.
> Thank you Larry. Being heard, answered, and having suggestions has already given hope, where I felt none. Thank you so much.
> Maggie
>
> > Hope. We have lots of hope here. We can help.
> >
> > Lar
Posted by tealady on May 24, 2005, at 3:13:01
In reply to Re: am toooo depressed » maggie1970, posted by JLx on May 23, 2005, at 0:28:21
good luck with the interview..oh maybe its to late for that..hope it went well :-)
Posted by JLx on May 24, 2005, at 8:52:44
In reply to GL » JLx, posted by tealady on May 24, 2005, at 3:13:01
> good luck with the interview..oh maybe its to late for that..hope it went well :-)
Thanks, Jan. It was ok. Pretty routine questions. Maybe if I go on enough of these things I will learn not to get so nervous beforehand! It sounds like my odds of getting the job may be about 20 to 1, so I'm going to try to put it out of my mind.
JL
Posted by maggie1970 on May 26, 2005, at 10:30:01
In reply to GL » JLx, posted by tealady on May 24, 2005, at 3:13:01
Does anyone know of a successful supplement for libido? I don't know if it is my depression, or an after affect from the SSRI's, but I have so little libido. I am working on my depression with taurine and niacinamide, omega-3's, and l-glutamate for anxiety too, but when I was buying the taurine and niacinamide, I saw something for women which used something such as macca - or something like that. I am feeling better depression wise, but my libido has not been the same for a long time and if there is a natural way to do something about it, I would love any suggestions. Thanks a lot, Maggie
Posted by JLx on May 26, 2005, at 10:42:27
In reply to libido?, posted by maggie1970 on May 26, 2005, at 10:30:01
> Does anyone know of a successful supplement for libido? I don't know if it is my depression, or an after affect from the SSRI's, but I have so little libido. I am working on my depression with taurine and niacinamide, omega-3's, and l-glutamate for anxiety too, but when I was buying the taurine and niacinamide, I saw something for women which used something such as macca - or something like that. I am feeling better depression wise, but my libido has not been the same for a long time and if there is a natural way to do something about it, I would love any suggestions. Thanks a lot, Maggie
>If you're over 40, you can try DHEA. It works that way for me, probably because of the testosterone it can increase.
I've tried maca but don't recall a libido boost. It's pretty powerful though in terms of estrogen (at least for me) as I had a breast cyst that increased with it.
JL
Posted by maggie1970 on May 27, 2005, at 9:31:35
In reply to Re: libido? » maggie1970, posted by JLx on May 26, 2005, at 10:42:27
Thanks for writing back, JL. I haven't tried that (I'm 34), but found something online that uses a bunch of things. I was actually looking for something that Larry Hoover suggested, Trimethylglycine, which I couldn't find at the store so was looking online. It says at the site that Trimethylglycine "may lead to sexual enhancement and enjoyment, as described in the book Natural Sex Boosters". So I may try that. But then when searching around I found this one at the site: Passion Rx(www.raysahelian.com/sexual-enhancement.html), but it costs a lot more than the Trimethylglycine, so I am wondering if anyone has tried that? If the Trimethylglycine has done anything for anyone's libido, I would love to hear! Thanks :) Maggie
Posted by maggie1970 on May 29, 2005, at 13:01:30
In reply to Re: am toooo depressed » maggie1970, posted by JLx on May 23, 2005, at 0:28:21
Hi JL:
I don't know if you will read this anytime soon, but am really interested in what you were saying about Magnesium. I have been taking a calcium magnesium for awhile, solgar, but after what you wrote, I am thinking I need something more like what you were writing about. I'm not sure which one to try first. I want to look online for one of the ones you suggested, either magnesium glycinate or taurate. With all else I am taking, would one be better than another?
(Sorry, what is TMG? I'm assuming it's an abbreviation for an herb or something, but an unsure!)
As you wrote, tyrosine and wellbutrin both made me irritable, mean, not myself at all either. So I'm eager to begin this magnesium. I wonder if it will work with the dexedrine too.
I think I will run to the drug store for the bath salts you mentioned. I would love to see a quick feeling, to see how magnesium feels.
Thanks again!
Posted by buddhi on July 30, 2005, at 13:16:41
In reply to Re: libido? » maggie1970, posted by JLx on May 26, 2005, at 10:42:27
> > Does anyone know of a successful supplement for libido? I don't know if it is my depression, or an after affect from the SSRI's, but I have so little libido. I am working on my depression with taurine and niacinamide, omega-3's, and l-glutamate for anxiety too, but when I was buying the taurine and niacinamide, I saw something for women which used something such as macca - or something like that. I am feeling better depression wise, but my libido has not been the same for a long time and if there is a natural way to do something about it, I would love any suggestions. Thanks a lot, Maggie
> >
>
> If you're over 40, you can try DHEA. It works that way for me, probably because of the testosterone it can increase.
>
> I've tried maca but don't recall a libido boost. It's pretty powerful though in terms of estrogen (at least for me) as I had a breast cyst that increased with it.
>
> JLJL wondering what brand of dhea and how much a day you used and how long before you noticed libdo enhancement??? Would love to get my libid up !!! thanks buddhi youcan write back on board or email amy@pause.com
Posted by JLx on July 31, 2005, at 12:01:52
In reply to Re: libido?dhea? » JLx, posted by buddhi on July 30, 2005, at 13:16:41
> > > Does anyone know of a successful supplement for libido? I don't know if it is my depression, or an after affect from the SSRI's, but I have so little libido. I am working on my depression with taurine and niacinamide, omega-3's, and l-glutamate for anxiety too, but when I was buying the taurine and niacinamide, I saw something for women which used something such as macca - or something like that. I am feeling better depression wise, but my libido has not been the same for a long time and if there is a natural way to do something about it, I would love any suggestions. Thanks a lot, Maggie
> > >
> >
> > If you're over 40, you can try DHEA. It works that way for me, probably because of the testosterone it can increase.
> >
> > I've tried maca but don't recall a libido boost. It's pretty powerful though in terms of estrogen (at least for me) as I had a breast cyst that increased with it.
> >
> > JL
>
> JL wondering what brand of dhea and how much a day you used and how long before you noticed libdo enhancement??? Would love to get my libid up !!! thanks buddhi youcan write back on board or email amy@pause.comI use whatever brand my local health food store stocks. I buy the 25 or 50 mg tablets and then cut or break them in pieces, so DHEA is one of the cheapest things I take.
How much to take depends on what you read and how you feel. Some say only a small amount, such as 5-10 mg/day is advisable, up to 25 mg a day (for women). Some of the studies done on DHEA for middle aged depression have been far higher than that, but as they were clinical trials, were also for a limited time. One thing to consider is that by boosting estrogen, if you're already at risk for breast cancer or have it, growth of it will be accelerated. Otherwise, symptoms are probably the best way to guage if you are taking too much. It gives me acne, and some women apparently have other male hormone overload characteristics such as facial hair. These are reversible though.
A good general article that reviews all the negative arguments is here: http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_cover_dhea_01.htm
The libido effect for me is pretty immediate -- within a day. I don't remember if it was always like that or not.
I used to take 25 mg/day but after I started taking magnesium, I take a lot less. Usually about 5-12 mg/day or every other day. Sometimes I quit taking it for a while.
It's something you can get tested as that article discusses, if you have the bucks, doctor and inclination. I think that's probably the way to go. Otherwise just experiment. I'd say, start at 25 or even 50 mg for a few weeks and then drop it down if you get acne or other symptoms, or stick with it or increase it if you notice no effect at all.
Let us know how it goes. :)
JL
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