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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sdb on May 14, 2005, at 11:13:35
According to this interesting article we could merge the alternative and p-babble, because we synthesized something what nature has synthesized a long time ago. If the "human being" produced the chemistry or the "nature" produced the chemistry its of course natural, because we are one small part in the ever changing nature. We are only changing nature by nature, which is nature. We should treat carefully our origin, because we are dependent and connected.
------------------------------------------------Biochem Pharmacol. 1989 Aug 1;38(15):2473-8. Related Articles, Links
Detection of desmethyldiazepam and diazepam in brain of different species and plants.Unseld E, Krishna DR, Fischer C, Klotz U.
Dr. Margarete Fischer-Bosch-Institut fur Klinische Pharmakologie, Stuttgart, Federal Republic of Germany.
Recent data suggest that desmethyldiazepam (DD), a major metabolite of several benzodiazepines (BZD), might be of natural origin. Therefore we tried to quantify DD and diazepam (D) in animals during maturation (e.g. hen, chicken, eggs), in brain of species at different evolutionary stages e.g. salmon, frog, monitor/reptile, rat, cat, dog, deer, bovine) including newborn and adult humans. Since low concentrations of DD (range 0.01-0.04 ng/g wet wt) and D (range 0.005-0.02 ng/g) could be measured in different species by sensitive and specific mass spectrometry (GC-MS), we analysed also several plants (e.g. maize corn, lentils, potatoes, soybeans, rice, mushrooms). Again, DD and D could be detected in low amounts (0.005-0.05 ng/g) in some plant products. This would suggest that DD and D might be of natural origin and incorporated via the foodchain into the animal and human body. The biological role or clinical relevance of these intriguing findings need still to be elucidated.
PMID: 2502983 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2005, at 11:16:28
In reply to Valium and its metabolites might be natural origin, posted by sdb on May 14, 2005, at 11:13:35
> According to this interesting article we could merge the alternative and p-babble, because we synthesized something what nature has synthesized a long time ago. If the "human being" produced the chemistry or the "nature" produced the chemistry its of course natural, because we are one small part in the ever changing nature. We are only changing nature by nature, which is nature. We should treat carefully our origin, because we are dependent and connected.
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Biochem Pharmacol. 1989 Aug 1;38(15):2473-8. Related Articles, Links
>
>
> Detection of desmethyldiazepam and diazepam in brain of different species and plants.
>
> Unseld E, Krishna DR, Fischer C, Klotz U.
>
> Dr. Margarete Fischer-Bosch-Institut fur Klinische Pharmakologie, Stuttgart, Federal Republic of Germany.
>
> Recent data suggest that desmethyldiazepam (DD), a major metabolite of several benzodiazepines (BZD), might be of natural origin. Therefore we tried to quantify DD and diazepam (D) in animals during maturation (e.g. hen, chicken, eggs), in brain of species at different evolutionary stages e.g. salmon, frog, monitor/reptile, rat, cat, dog, deer, bovine) including newborn and adult humans. Since low concentrations of DD (range 0.01-0.04 ng/g wet wt) and D (range 0.005-0.02 ng/g) could be measured in different species by sensitive and specific mass spectrometry (GC-MS), we analysed also several plants (e.g. maize corn, lentils, potatoes, soybeans, rice, mushrooms). Again, DD and D could be detected in low amounts (0.005-0.05 ng/g) in some plant products. This would suggest that DD and D might be of natural origin and incorporated via the foodchain into the animal and human body. The biological role or clinical relevance of these intriguing findings need still to be elucidated.
>
> PMID: 2502983 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>Curious finding, no doubt. But meaningful, I doubt.
Based on the highest concentration measured in plants, to obtain a 10 mg dose of diazepam, you would need to ingest 200 metric tons of that food, in one dose. (That's a mathematical ratio of diazepam to mass of food analyzed. I.e. 0.05 ng/g is the same as 10 mg/200,000 kg)
In human studies of 10 mg diazepam bolus oral dose, the peak plasma concentration hits about 400 ng/ml. The measured amount in animal species was a maximum of .02 ng/ml. That is about .005%, or 0.00005 times the amount from taking the valium tablet.
I am hard pressed to see any comparison of these scenarios yielding anything meaningful.
Regards,
Lar
Posted by sdb on May 15, 2005, at 13:54:08
In reply to Re: Valium and its metabolites might be natural origin » sdb, posted by Larry Hoover on May 15, 2005, at 11:16:28
Hi Lar!
I can not value the quality of that study.
But anyway if its true, it is fascinating plants are synthesizing "Valium". The interesting thing depends not on quantity but on ability in synthesis also in plants. What role the "Valium" plays in plants biochemistry would be interesting. Perhaps a minor role but importance often does not depend on quantity. I am not biologist. Who knows. Plants are lifeforms and somebody told me he is very sure after quarreling often with his wife his plants perished because of that.
Regards
sdb
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