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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:20
I found this very interesting and may give it a try.Beyond a century has it fairly cheap. Has anyone ever tried this? Sroll down the page a little to read the effects on depression.
http://www.realgerovital.com/gerovital-gerovita-gh3-procaine1.htm#inthebeginning
Posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:31:18
In reply to Natural MAO inhibitor-no diet restrictions, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:20
I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
Polypathology and antidepressive drugs, (especially the tricyclic substances) in elderly people is counter-indicated due to the common acetylcholinic side effects.
In the group of MAO-I's medication (mono-amine oxidase inhibitors) a new treatment appeared with better general tolerance and without side effects- it was Gerovital-H3 ® (8, 9, 10, 11).
Zung did the first double-blind study comparing the effects of Gerovital-H3 ® administered i.m., versus Imipramine administered p.o. and versus placebo.(8)
He studied outpatients 60 years and older, who had mild depressive disorders of global severity. This was determined by using a Clinical Global Impression. The dosage of Imiprarnine treated patients during the 4-week treatment period showed a mean total dosage of 74,8 mg/day. The dosage of patients on Gerovital-H3 ® during the 4-week period of treatment showed a mean tota1 dosage of 2,022 mg.
Comparing Day 0 with Day 28 of all the variable measures in the Gerovita1 H3 treated group, the results indicated that the patients improved significantly on Clinical Globa1 Impression, and on the Anxiety Status Inventory and on the Self-rating Depression Scale (8). The results of this study show that using Clinical Global Impression and the Zung Self Depression Sca1e, the change scores obtained from ca1culating pre-treatment to post-treatment differences prove Gerovital-H3 ® to be superior to imipramine since the Gerovital-H3 ®/ placebo differences were significantly different, while the imipramine/ placebo differences were not.
Saka1is and Gershon using a maximum tota1 dosage of 1,350 mg of Gerovita1-H3 reported improvement in depressive symptomatology of their senile-arteriosclerotic patients studied (12). Ba1aceanu and al (13) in 1996 did a double-blind study in order to point out the antidepressive effect of Gerovital-H3 ®, to assess the clinical tolerance of the drug and the possible side effects. After a geronto-psychological screening from 1443 old people, and using DSM-III-R criteria, the authors selected 286 patients suffering from various forms of depression. They excluded patients with a marked decrease of visua1 and auditive acuity, severe pathology and depressive patients who already took antidepressive treatments.
Group 1 received Physiologica1 serum and Group 2 received Gerovital-H3 ® as follows; for 10 days 1 i.m. via1 in the morning, and for 11 more days 2 i.m. vials, one in the morning and one at noon. During the treatment one patient with organic depressive syndrome and a1cohol-dependent personality disorders presented psychiatric side effects, virulence, irritability and harm pretending tendencies.
In conclusion, the authors noted that the clinical tolerance was good. The assessment of the depressive state intensity using psychological methods proved statistically significant ameliorations after the treatment with Gerovital-H3 ®. The cognitive performances were better at the second examination in the group receiving Gerovital-H3 ® comparing with the group receiving physiological serum.
Gerovital-H3 ® and MAO
Mono Amine Oxidase (MAO) is mainly responsible for the degradation of biogenic amines and a MAO inhibiting effect brings about an increase of biogenic amines concentration at the synaptic level. It is known that Gerovital-H3 ® is a selective and reversible inhibitor of MAO (14). Hrachovec showed that Gerovital-H3 has an enhanced inhibiting action (87,4%) as compared to procaine hydroch1oride (64.9%) on MAO (15).
MacFarlane a1so demonstrated that Gerovital-H3 ® is a MAO inhibitor (16). These studies are particularly relevant in view of Robinson demonstrating a relationship between aging, MAO levels and central amines (17). Robinson found that MAO activity correlates highly with increasing age when studied in human brain, plasma and platelets. Women were found to have significantly higher mean platelet and plasma MAO activity than men.
Other mechanisms of Gerovital-H3 ® action are possible, these include: thyroxin-hydroxylasis activation through an alosteric effect determined by ions influx and inhibition of synaptic uptake (18). We know that repeated administration of MAO-I drugs depresses 5-HT 1 (the somato-dendritic auto receptors of serotoninergic neurons) determining an inhibition of synaptic occupation.
Gerovital-H3 ® is also a cholinergic activator through its hydrolysis products- diethylaminoethanol and ethanol amine, and can exert indirectly a modulating action on the other systems of neuromediators, an action which has a certain regional specificity. This assertion is based on the fact that there is an extensive distribution of monoaminergic terminations on the cholinergic neurons- the striatal cholinergic basal nuclear complex, which suggests several anatomic and functional interactions between these systems, interactions that often have double meaning (19).
Gerovital-H3 ® and Depression
Yau in a fundamental study summarized the mechanisms of Gerovital-H3 ® in depression (20):
Gerovital-H3 ® is a reversible and competitive inhibitor of MAO. Gerovital-H3 ® may function as an antidepressant by modifying the level of brain monoamines.
Compared with classic MAO-I, Gerovital-H3 ® is quite selective in inhibiting the oxidative desamination of certain important brain monoamines.
Due to the inhibition of Gerovital-H3 ® on the oxidative desamination of liver Tyramine and Tryptamine, the normal physiological function of liver MAO to inactivate excess amount of ingested or endogenously present toxic amines is not impaired, thereby eliminating the "hypertensive crisis" so typical of other MAO inhibitors.
Yau concluded that, in addition to being an efficacious drug in the treatment of depression, Gerovital-H3 ® seems to have some additional advantages in terms of its pharmacological effects and increased safety
Posted by linkadge on April 29, 2005, at 7:59:33
In reply to Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:31:18
Doesn't seem to mention a preference for MAO-A or MAO-B.
Linkadge
Posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 14:10:36
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by linkadge on April 29, 2005, at 7:59:33
Maybe it's an inhibitor of both,I found this:
Being a safe and effective (albeit mild) MAOI, GH3 can be expected to help raise dopamine, noradrenalin, and serotonin through inhibition of their neuronal MAO destruction, with consequent antidepressant effect."
Posted by KaraS on April 30, 2005, at 1:39:27
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 14:10:36
> Maybe it's an inhibitor of both,I found this:
> Being a safe and effective (albeit mild) MAOI, GH3 can be expected to help raise dopamine, noradrenalin, and serotonin through inhibition of their neuronal MAO destruction, with consequent antidepressant effect.
>
> "
If it inhibited MAO-A then I would think you'd have to follow the diet.
Posted by lotus on April 30, 2005, at 14:18:42
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by KaraS on April 30, 2005, at 1:39:27
> > Maybe it's an inhibitor of both,I found this:
> > Being a safe and effective (albeit mild) MAOI, GH3 can be expected to help raise dopamine, noradrenalin, and serotonin through inhibition of their neuronal MAO destruction, with consequent antidepressant effect.
> >
> > "
>
>
> If it inhibited MAO-A then I would think you'd have to follow the diet.
>
> HOW DOES GH3 INHIBIT MAO AS COMPARED TO CLASSICAL MAO INHIBITORS?
Classical MAO inhibitor drugs used in psychiatry (Parnate, Nardil) reduce depression by forming strong covalent bonds with the MAO. In a sense, they form a shell around the MAO and completely disable it. This reduces the metabolism of the serotonin and noreprinepherine but also can be dangerous, since it disables the MAO from performing its other functions. Tyramine is a substrate of MAO (that is, the MAO is there to metabolize it.) Tyramine is present in fermented foods including yogurt and fermented cheeses, as well as in pickles, shellfish and certain wines. If unchecked, it can lead to dangerously high blood pressure. The classical MAO inhibitors stop the metabolization of neurotransmitters but also keep the MAO from doing its job regarding tyramine. Many people on these anti-depressants died before the tyramine effect was understood. Currently, people taking them are on severe dietary restrictions. In contrast, GH3 "gets between" the MAO and the neurotransmitters (according to many researchers) and thus prevents the metabolization of the neurotransmitters. Under demand, such as stress or the presence of tyramine, the GH3 gets out of the way so the MAO can do its job. Once again, the same function is accomplished but with complete safety.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 16:18:26
In reply to Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:31:18
> I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
Can you give the link? The references matter.
Lar
Posted by lotus on April 30, 2005, at 17:39:28
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry? » lotus, posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 16:18:26
> > I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
>
> Can you give the link? The references matter.
>
> Larhttp://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/depression.htm
Just scroll down to the info on GH3.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 18:52:26
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 30, 2005, at 17:39:28
> > > I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
> >
> > Can you give the link? The references matter.
> >
> > Lar
>
> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/depression.htm
>
> Just scroll down to the info on GH3.That's a different article altogether. I'll see if I can find it.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 19:28:52
In reply to Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:31:18
> I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
The last link first....
http://www.realgerovital.com/gerovital-gerovita-gh3-procaine1.htm#inthebeginning
Don't you just love the supposed before and after pictures of the old man, half-way down the page? Picture of man at 45. Picture of man at 70. Switch pictures....Anti-aging magic!
OK, back to the article.
A number of things jump out at me, in reviewing this article. First, the writer did not write it in English, originally. It is a poor translation, and the meaning is mangled in many places. It was also scanned into the computer using Optical Character Recognition software, which did not recognize the font used....lower case "L"'s are shown as number 1's, all over the place.
Anyway. The references to all the clinical trials are ancient. 30 years old, or more. We didn't even know how to do good clinical trials back then, so all data that old are immediately suspect.
In any case, every clinical trial reported used *injected* Gerovital, not oral pills. And, in an interesting quirk of fate, all the negative clinical trials were left out of this review. Pubmed has a number of published trials which showed no benefit of Gerovital. Pubmed is also full of articles detailing allergic reactions to this stuff, and cases of kidney failure. (Procaine is no longer used in modern medicine for a very good reason.)
The only modern references in the article are related to their supposed mechanism of action, not the pharmacology of Gerovital. (There is no real evidence for that mechanism, by the way, as the MAO inhibition studies were in vitro.) There is no evidence that *oral* Gerovital survives digestion and first-pass liver metabolism, in any case, let alone that it enters the brain intact.
This stuff is classic snake oil, in my perhaps not so humble opinion. That's not to say it doesn't have nutritive value. It is, apparently, a decent source of para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA), and diethylethanolamine (DEAE). If you want the former, eat yer veggies. If you want the latter, take some lecithin.
Because of the potential for allergic reaction, I think this stuff shouldn't even be on the market.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2005, at 19:32:02
In reply to Re: Also found this:science jargon:Translation Larry?, posted by lotus on April 30, 2005, at 17:39:28
> > > I also found some other stuff on GH3,if anyone is interested in reading.
> >
> > Can you give the link? The references matter.
> >
> > Lar
>
> http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/depression.htm
>
> Just scroll down to the info on GH3.Same site, different link:
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/gerocognitive.htm
I have to check some of the references.
Lar
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 5, 2005, at 19:27:50
In reply to Natural MAO inhibitor-no diet restrictions, posted by lotus on April 29, 2005, at 2:07:20
This stuff is snake oil, and has been snake oil for decades. I find it amazing it's still around. Its MAO inhibition is weak, reversible, and lasts an absurdly short period of time. If you want a "natural" MAO inhibitor, try harmala alkaloids for MAO-A or emodin (in fo-ti, thank you linkadge) for MAO-B.
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