![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 104 to 128 of 228. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on March 13, 2005, at 23:02:30
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by world citizen on March 13, 2005, at 20:28:03
>
>
> I have an anxiety disorder. I have been taking DLPA since 1999 or so. I also take a benzo for sleep disorder that's associated with Fibromyalgia. I would highly suggest for those of you interested in trying DLPA get the 375 mg caplets from Source Naturals, that way you can cut it up if you feel it is too intense. I forgot to ask Kara if she's currently taking anything for anxiety. If she is not she could get some Valerian Root extract or even better-L-theanine (the Theanine Serene is working very well, as is the TMG). Whatever anxiety that might be produced by taking a "try it dose" of DLPA (maybe cut the 375 mg in half), is probably not as intense as what is currently being produced by it being an "unknown".
>
> Does anybody else out there use prayer and meditation as an "alternative" remedy in addition to the supplements. For me that is at LEAST as effective as all the rest combined!
> World Citizen
Hi again,
I have tried 500 mg. of DLPA a day for a few days back when I was on Effexor. I didn't notice much difference. I think I needed to try it at a higher dose though. I then ordered the Source Naturals pills that you recommended so that I could cut them and increase the dosage gradually. I never got around to that trial because I was withdrawing from Effexor and decided not to add anything else to the mixture. After I had been off of Effexor for about a month or two, the worst anxiety you can imagine hit me. I have been dealing with that ever since. I was completely dysfunctional until I started on a small amount (25 mg.) of doxepin. That's all I'm taking now and I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I probably won't be trying the DLPA with the doxepin. I'm more interested in DLPA for future reference once I'm certain all of my anxiety is under control and I can mix DLPA with whatever else I'm taking.How much DLPA are you taking now? Does it help with anxiety and depression as well as for pain?
I've never tried l-theanine or valerian. I was following someone here who tried l-theanine and loved it initially. Later on, it ended up making him more depressed so I've been a bit afraid of that one. The smell of valerian has turned me off to it though I hear you can find it without the strong odor. Is valerian good to take during the day for anxiety relief or is it good primarily for sleep purposes?
I've been trying some accupressure (tapping) to help relieve anxiety with some mixed results. I really have to practice it a lot more to judge it definitively. I've been meaning to meditate regularly but haven't been disciplined enough. I've often found that focussing on my breath has made me more anxious and so I've been putting off dealing with it or trying to work through that.
K
Posted by world citizen on March 14, 2005, at 0:19:13
In reply to RE: DLPA » world citizen, posted by KaraS on March 13, 2005, at 23:02:30
Oh Kara!!!!!!!!
No wonder you're having so much trouble with anxiety, you're still in Effexor withdrawal. With that in mind I'd definately reccomend the valerian AND the L-theanine. I've begun taking a combination from Source Natuals called "Theanine Serene". It has GABA (useless), magnesium,theanine and valerian. There is no bad odor at all. I wouldn't wish Benzos on anyone, but have you thought of asking you're MD for some Atavan or something to help you get through this??? Are you getting counselling at all?
As far as the DLPA I take 500 mgs. in the morning with the acompaning supplements. About a half hour later I follow that up with 5 mgs. of Selegiline and 5 mgs. of Vinpocetine. Throughout the day i take Theanine Serene as needed, I'm going through one of the most stressful times in my life, I'm growing like a milk thistle weed!!
I'm going to share with you a prayer that has worked for me, do with it what you will. I feel obligated to share everything I know that has worked for me.
O God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and my Refuge. I will no longer be sorrowful and grieved; I will be a happy and joyful being. O God! I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life.
O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord
'Abdul-Baha
Posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 1:40:23
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by world citizen on March 14, 2005, at 0:19:13
> I've begun taking a combination from Source Natuals called "Theanine Serene". It has GABA (useless), magnesium,theanine and valerian.
I've read that although straight GABA won't get past the BBB it may raise HGH levels which could have a lot of other benefits, maybe that's just hype though. I took theanine for about a month and didn't notice any increase in depression. I've also taken valerian in the daytime when I had the baby and he was stressing me out, it doesn't make me sleepy anymore but it used to.
Posted by KaraS on March 14, 2005, at 16:12:44
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by world citizen on March 14, 2005, at 0:19:13
>
>
> Oh Kara!!!!!!!!
>
> No wonder you're having so much trouble with anxiety, you're still in Effexor withdrawal. With that in mind I'd definately reccomend the valerian AND the L-theanine. I've begun taking a combination from Source Natuals called "Theanine Serene". It has GABA (useless), magnesium,theanine and valerian. There is no bad odor at all. I wouldn't wish Benzos on anyone, but have you thought of asking you're MD for some Atavan or something to help you get through this??? Are you getting counselling at all?
>
> As far as the DLPA I take 500 mgs. in the morning with the acompaning supplements. About a half hour later I follow that up with 5 mgs. of Selegiline and 5 mgs. of Vinpocetine. Throughout the day i take Theanine Serene as needed, I'm going through one of the most stressful times in my life, I'm growing like a milk thistle weed!!
>
> I'm going to share with you a prayer that has worked for me, do with it what you will. I feel obligated to share everything I know that has worked for me.
>
> O God! Refresh and gladden my spirit. Purify my heart. Illumine my powers. I lay all my affairs in Thy hand. Thou art my Guide and my Refuge. I will no longer be sorrowful and grieved; I will be a happy and joyful being. O God! I will no longer be full of anxiety, nor will I let trouble harass me. I will not dwell on the unpleasant things of life.
> O God! Thou art more friend to me than I am to myself. I dedicate myself to Thee, O Lord
> 'Abdul-Baha
>Hi,
Effexor withdrawal may play into it but I've always had terrible anxiety problems when I'm not on any medication. Combine that with the stresses in my life right now and you have a recipee for disaster.
I have Xanax at home but I've only taken it once. I really don't want to go that route unless it's absolutely necessary. The doxepin has been working well so I thought it wouldn't be necessary. Anyway, I'll look into the theanine serine.
Thanks for the advice and the prayer.
K
Posted by KaraS on March 14, 2005, at 16:14:29
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 1:40:23
> > I've begun taking a combination from Source Natuals called "Theanine Serene". It has GABA (useless), magnesium,theanine and valerian.
>
> I've read that although straight GABA won't get past the BBB it may raise HGH levels which could have a lot of other benefits, maybe that's just hype though. I took theanine for about a month and didn't notice any increase in depression. I've also taken valerian in the daytime when I had the baby and he was stressing me out, it doesn't make me sleepy anymore but it used to.
>
>
Does the valerian still relax you? Why did you stop taking the theanine?
Posted by Elroy on March 14, 2005, at 19:13:50
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 1:40:23
Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
If the anxiety is severe enough, DLPA and even Selegiline might very well worsen it. Selegiline and DLPA might be something to hold off on until after you have a complete handle on the anxiety (and then use the Selegiline combo to deal with any residual depression)....
Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
Just my thoughts.
Elroy
> > I've begun taking a combination from Source Natuals called "Theanine Serene". It has GABA (useless), magnesium,theanine and valerian.
>
> I've read that although straight GABA won't get past the BBB it may raise HGH levels which could have a lot of other benefits, maybe that's just hype though. I took theanine for about a month and didn't notice any increase in depression. I've also taken valerian in the daytime when I had the baby and he was stressing me out, it doesn't make me sleepy anymore but it used to.
>
>
Posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 20:51:07
In reply to RE: DLPA » gromit, posted by KaraS on March 14, 2005, at 16:14:29
> Does the valerian still relax you? Why did you stop taking the theanine?
Yeah it still relaxes me but I don't really get anxious except in social situations and it's not strong enough to help that a lot. I'm talking about the baby having a fit throwing his food kind of stress if that makes sense. The theanine basically made the Provigil I was taking at the time poop out immediately. It could have been a coincidence, the Provigil was inconsistent already. I just ran out of theanine and didn't buy any more.
BTW smi2le has a buy 2 get 1 free offer on theanine, so you end up with 180 grams for 60 bucks and you get free shipping with any order over $50.
Posted by KaraS on March 14, 2005, at 22:22:04
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 20:51:07
> > Does the valerian still relax you? Why did you stop taking the theanine?
>
> Yeah it still relaxes me but I don't really get anxious except in social situations and it's not strong enough to help that a lot. I'm talking about the baby having a fit throwing his food kind of stress if that makes sense. The theanine basically made the Provigil I was taking at the time poop out immediately. It could have been a coincidence, the Provigil was inconsistent already. I just ran out of theanine and didn't buy any more.
>
> BTW smi2le has a buy 2 get 1 free offer on theanine, so you end up with 180 grams for 60 bucks and you get free shipping with any order over $50.
>
>
Ok. I understand. Wierd about the l-theanine and the timing of the Provigil poop-out. Thanks for the heads up about smi2le.k
Posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 22:35:36
In reply to RE: DLPA » gromit, posted by Elroy on March 14, 2005, at 19:13:50
> Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?I hope this will happen.
> Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
Thanks
Rick
Posted by Elroy on March 15, 2005, at 14:34:40
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 20:51:07
Have you had any direct experience with smi2le? I ordered from them quite a while ago. I waited a few weeks only to receive about 1/3 of the order. I am still waiting for the remainder of the order. These people absolutely will NOT respond to e-mails (at least any of mine) and have only had luck getting through to them once by telephone - and that was when they suddenly did send me at least the one part of my order!
> > Does the valerian still relax you? Why did you stop taking the theanine?
>
> Yeah it still relaxes me but I don't really get anxious except in social situations and it's not strong enough to help that a lot. I'm talking about the baby having a fit throwing his food kind of stress if that makes sense. The theanine basically made the Provigil I was taking at the time poop out immediately. It could have been a coincidence, the Provigil was inconsistent already. I just ran out of theanine and didn't buy any more.
>
> BTW smi2le has a buy 2 get 1 free offer on theanine, so you end up with 180 grams for 60 bucks and you get free shipping with any order over $50.
>
>
Posted by Elroy on March 15, 2005, at 14:44:06
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by gromit on March 14, 2005, at 22:35:36
I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
> > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
>
> I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
>
> > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
>
> I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
>
> > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
>
> I hope this will happen.
>
> > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
>
> Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
>
>
> Thanks
> Rick
>
Posted by KaraS on March 15, 2005, at 16:00:56
In reply to RE: DLPA » gromit, posted by Elroy on March 15, 2005, at 14:44:06
> I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
>
> Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
>
> But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
> >
> > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> >
> > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
> >
> > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> >
> > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
> >
> > I hope this will happen.
> >
> > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
> >
> > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rick
> >
>I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
K
Posted by world citizen on March 16, 2005, at 0:48:52
In reply to RE: DLPA » gromit, posted by Elroy on March 15, 2005, at 14:44:06
Hi. Talk about anxiety!!!!!!!!! I got the results back today on my latest viral count, you see, I found out last fall that I have Hepatitis C. The brand I have is the genotype 1B that is MOST resistant to "treatment" and it indicates that this type is most likely to get liver cancer. In Dec. my viral load was 930,000. I guess that's fairly low. They don't even want to talk interferon until it's over 1,000,000. I found out today that I'm at 1,700,000. I'm taking the herbal protocol as reccomended in Stephen Harrod Buhner's book "Herbs for Hepatitis C and the Liver". I'm in this civil lawsuit and decided last week my health-whatever I have left of it-is more important than winning, or even exacting justice. So we've been talking "settlement" for the last 2 weeks. I'm so upset with all of this I've had 3 periods in the last 30 days. If any of you guys pray, I sure would appreciate some prayers because I sure am scared!!!!!!!!!!! My sons are grown and I live alone, otherwise I might consider going the interferon route. The OTHER thing about that crap, aside from it being ineffectual in 60% of the 1B genotype, is that it can cause horrible depression. It's not advised that those that have a history of mood disorder get treated with it. I'm not sure Selegiline and DLPA can stand up against that!!!!!!!!! Other than that I'm just fine! I'm 47 and my blood pressure is 110/70, my cholesterol is so low it's in the adolescent category. I walk about 6 miles per day. Pray/meditate, eat lots of salmon and oatmeal (not simultaneously!), I have a juicer-I juice carrots, redbeets,apple and celery EVERY DAY! I'm trying SO HARD to be healthy and strong to deal effectively with reality as I "know" it!
I'm sorry to burden you guys with this but I just need to know there is someone out there. Maybe Dr. Bob will make a Hep C category.
World Citizen
Posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 6:08:04
In reply to RE: DLPA (etc), posted by world citizen on March 16, 2005, at 0:48:52
I am sosorry to hear this. As I may have mentioned previously, I went through a (whistleblower-type) lawsuit that clearly led to a significant amount of my anxiety problems (it was eventually tossed by the judge as unfounded, unlike the nationally profiled cases, management generally wins about 99% of these types of cases... not because of a jury decision but because judges side with management in tossing the cases!).
Yes, you will definitely be in our prayers.
May I also suggest: http://www.beliefnet.com/
Specifically:
http://www.beliefnet.com/prayeroftheday/prayer_main.asp
(registration is free)
http://www.beliefnet.com/prayer/prayer_circle_creation_intro.asp?milestoneTypeID=6
Elroy>
>
> Hi. Talk about anxiety!!!!!!!!! I got the results back today on my latest viral count, you see, I found out last fall that I have Hepatitis C. The brand I have is the genotype 1B that is MOST resistant to "treatment" and it indicates that this type is most likely to get liver cancer. In Dec. my viral load was 930,000. I guess that's fairly low. They don't even want to talk interferon until it's over 1,000,000. I found out today that I'm at 1,700,000. I'm taking the herbal protocol as reccomended in Stephen Harrod Buhner's book "Herbs for Hepatitis C and the Liver". I'm in this civil lawsuit and decided last week my health-whatever I have left of it-is more important than winning, or even exacting justice. So we've been talking "settlement" for the last 2 weeks. I'm so upset with all of this I've had 3 periods in the last 30 days. If any of you guys pray, I sure would appreciate some prayers because I sure am scared!!!!!!!!!!! My sons are grown and I live alone, otherwise I might consider going the interferon route. The OTHER thing about that crap, aside from it being ineffectual in 60% of the 1B genotype, is that it can cause horrible depression. It's not advised that those that have a history of mood disorder get treated with it. I'm not sure Selegiline and DLPA can stand up against that!!!!!!!!! Other than that I'm just fine! I'm 47 and my blood pressure is 110/70, my cholesterol is so low it's in the adolescent category. I walk about 6 miles per day. Pray/meditate, eat lots of salmon and oatmeal (not simultaneously!), I have a juicer-I juice carrots, redbeets,apple and celery EVERY DAY! I'm trying SO HARD to be healthy and strong to deal effectively with reality as I "know" it!
>
> I'm sorry to burden you guys with this but I just need to know there is someone out there. Maybe Dr. Bob will make a Hep C category.
>
> World Citizen
Posted by world citizen on March 16, 2005, at 10:07:41
In reply to RE: DLPA (etc) » world citizen, posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 6:08:04
Elroy, for the record, my attorney assures me the "the defendant's" insurance rates have gone up by about 400%-both for his own home and his income property. I know this man has a lot of money and maybe the aggravation of having his bank account nipped at by the raised premiums will induce him to be more respectful of his tenants in the future.
Elroy, I've grown so much in the last 2 years since I started this legal process. When I realized how preoccupied I was becoming with money and revenge (Baha'u'llah says "anger consumeth the liver") I became aware that I could no longer give any more of my power, my life, to the goal of wanting him to pay and suffer for what he did. I'm supposed to be fostering unity, to help make the world a better place. This court case became antithetical to my existence. Additionally, I feel had I moved forward on the case, all my personal growth gained from this would have been forfeited as I myself would have become victimized by my own greed-annother casualty of the "bottom line".
I hope you feel SOME assurance as I do that he'll be paying higher (much) insurance rates. Perhaps everytime he writes the checks he'll remember the little Irish woman that decided she wasn't going to take any more s****!
World Citzen!
Posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 11:12:22
In reply to RE: DLPA, posted by KaraS on March 15, 2005, at 16:00:56
Yes, would like to hear back from Franco.....
Also, you need to remember that dopamine converts to norepinephrine and I know that Effexor does that (as it triggered a severe NE-induced case of prostatitis in me!!!).
> > I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
> >
> > But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
> > >
> > > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> > >
> > > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
> > >
> > > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> > >
> > > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
> > >
> > > I hope this will happen.
> > >
> > > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
> > >
> > > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Rick
> > >
> >
>
> I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
>
> K
>
>
Posted by KaraS on March 16, 2005, at 19:20:26
In reply to RE: DLPA (etc), posted by world citizen on March 16, 2005, at 0:48:52
>
>
> Hi. Talk about anxiety!!!!!!!!! I got the results back today on my latest viral count, you see, I found out last fall that I have Hepatitis C. The brand I have is the genotype 1B that is MOST resistant to "treatment" and it indicates that this type is most likely to get liver cancer. In Dec. my viral load was 930,000. I guess that's fairly low. They don't even want to talk interferon until it's over 1,000,000. I found out today that I'm at 1,700,000. I'm taking the herbal protocol as reccomended in Stephen Harrod Buhner's book "Herbs for Hepatitis C and the Liver". I'm in this civil lawsuit and decided last week my health-whatever I have left of it-is more important than winning, or even exacting justice. So we've been talking "settlement" for the last 2 weeks. I'm so upset with all of this I've had 3 periods in the last 30 days. If any of you guys pray, I sure would appreciate some prayers because I sure am scared!!!!!!!!!!! My sons are grown and I live alone, otherwise I might consider going the interferon route. The OTHER thing about that crap, aside from it being ineffectual in 60% of the 1B genotype, is that it can cause horrible depression. It's not advised that those that have a history of mood disorder get treated with it. I'm not sure Selegiline and DLPA can stand up against that!!!!!!!!! Other than that I'm just fine! I'm 47 and my blood pressure is 110/70, my cholesterol is so low it's in the adolescent category. I walk about 6 miles per day. Pray/meditate, eat lots of salmon and oatmeal (not simultaneously!), I have a juicer-I juice carrots, redbeets,apple and celery EVERY DAY! I'm trying SO HARD to be healthy and strong to deal effectively with reality as I "know" it!
>
> I'm sorry to burden you guys with this but I just need to know there is someone out there. Maybe Dr. Bob will make a Hep C category.
>
> World Citizen
(((((WC))))))You certainly have a lot on your plate these days. Sounds like you're intelligent and know your options well. I'm certain you'll make the right choices. It was probably a good idea to settle the case as well. You did make him pay and think twice. Now you need to take care of yourself!
Wishing you all the best,
KaraP.S. Keep us posted.
Posted by KaraS on March 16, 2005, at 19:28:51
In reply to RE: DLPA » KaraS, posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 11:12:22
Hi Elroy,
Yes, I'm sure that's why he put Effexor in that category but E. is overwhelmingly serotonergic. The NE isn't supposed to kick in to any appreciable degree until 225 mg. My experience with it (as well as several others I know) is that it does create the SSRI type of apathy. A friend of mine was on 300 mg. and he was very happy but he just couldn't get off of the couch. I think overall that it's dopamine dampening effects far outweight it's dopamine enhancing effects. But this book was written a few years ago and I know I am splitting hairs here. There's so much more in the book. I am enjoying reading it.
K
> Yes, would like to hear back from Franco.....
>
> Also, you need to remember that dopamine converts to norepinephrine and I know that Effexor does that (as it triggered a severe NE-induced case of prostatitis in me!!!).
>
>>
> > > I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
> > >
> > > Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
> > >
> > > But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
> > > >
> > > > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> > > >
> > > > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
> > > >
> > > > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> > > >
> > > > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
> > > >
> > > > I hope this will happen.
> > > >
> > > > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
> > > >
> > > > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
> >
> > K
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 22:26:37
In reply to RE: DLPA » Elroy, posted by KaraS on March 16, 2005, at 19:28:51
Well, my NE effects kicked in immediately that same day. By the next afternoon I was in agony. I then went through the same thing with Cymbalta (also an SSNRI) - only it took about a week instead of immediately. I have since "experimented" with anything that "boosts" NE (for example, higher doses of DLPA or even just the L-version alone) and find the the prostatitis type symptoms flare up very quickly. What was amazing was how fast and how severe the Effexor's reaction was.... never had enough time on it to build up any apathy or anything else!
> Hi Elroy,
>
> Yes, I'm sure that's why he put Effexor in that category but E. is overwhelmingly serotonergic. The NE isn't supposed to kick in to any appreciable degree until 225 mg. My experience with it (as well as several others I know) is that it does create the SSRI type of apathy. A friend of mine was on 300 mg. and he was very happy but he just couldn't get off of the couch. I think overall that it's dopamine dampening effects far outweight it's dopamine enhancing effects. But this book was written a few years ago and I know I am splitting hairs here. There's so much more in the book. I am enjoying reading it.
>
> K
>
>
> > Yes, would like to hear back from Franco.....
> >
> > Also, you need to remember that dopamine converts to norepinephrine and I know that Effexor does that (as it triggered a severe NE-induced case of prostatitis in me!!!).
> >
> >>
> > > > I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
> > > >
> > > > Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
> > > >
> > > > But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope this will happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Rick
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
> > >
> > > K
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by KaraS on March 17, 2005, at 8:42:49
In reply to RE: DLPA » KaraS, posted by Elroy on March 16, 2005, at 22:26:37
That's amazing - esp. considering that Effexor has much less NE at starting doses than Cymbalta. For some reason the NE was more available to you from the Effexor. At any rate, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope that your nature and deficiencies (as defined by Dr. Braverman) don't require taking meds or supplements that impact NE and would aggrivate this problem.
K
> Well, my NE effects kicked in immediately that same day. By the next afternoon I was in agony. I then went through the same thing with Cymbalta (also an SSNRI) - only it took about a week instead of immediately. I have since "experimented" with anything that "boosts" NE (for example, higher doses of DLPA or even just the L-version alone) and find the the prostatitis type symptoms flare up very quickly. What was amazing was how fast and how severe the Effexor's reaction was.... never had enough time on it to build up any apathy or anything else!
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Elroy,
> >
> > Yes, I'm sure that's why he put Effexor in that category but E. is overwhelmingly serotonergic. The NE isn't supposed to kick in to any appreciable degree until 225 mg. My experience with it (as well as several others I know) is that it does create the SSRI type of apathy. A friend of mine was on 300 mg. and he was very happy but he just couldn't get off of the couch. I think overall that it's dopamine dampening effects far outweight it's dopamine enhancing effects. But this book was written a few years ago and I know I am splitting hairs here. There's so much more in the book. I am enjoying reading it.
> >
> > K
> >
> >
> > > Yes, would like to hear back from Franco.....
> > >
> > > Also, you need to remember that dopamine converts to norepinephrine and I know that Effexor does that (as it triggered a severe NE-induced case of prostatitis in me!!!).
> > >
> > >>
> > > > > I thought the level of the book was excellent for a layman's udnerstanding. It sure helped me understand a ton more about theneurotransmitters and what they do and what ones cause what deficiencies and what nutrients are needed to balance and then optimize their functioning.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't get me wrong. Dr. Braverman is - as he clearly expresses - not an opponent of pharmaceuticals and believes that there are frequent times when their intervention is an absolute necessity (Lord knows I can relate top that!). Now that being said, he also comments about how his main objective is as often as possible to get his patients (as much as possible) off pharmaceuticals as soon as reasonably able to do so and on to supplements, nutrients, therapy, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > But for purposes of understanding - and maybe getting a handle on one's own situation - I'd highly recommend it for any layman. As one example, I was able to clearly understand why SSRI meds - and even SSNRI meds - do NOT work for many depressed persons (and even fewer people with pure anxiety problems) after reading his book....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Do some research (Searches) on the substance picamilon (sometimes spelled picamilone). It is a bonding of GABA with naicin that supposedly gets through the brain's blood barrier quite effectively (50%, 70%???). Anyway, quite a bit of interesting information out there about it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been taking picamilon for a couple of weeks now. I started picamilon, piracetam and selegiline almost at the same time so it's kind of hard to tell whats doing what. I also tripled at least the lecithin I've been taking. Usually I don't like to change more than one thing but the packages came within days of each other so I just dived in. The combination is helping, a little more motivation and a more rational thought process.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also would strongly consider Ativan or even Xanax (in the XR version only) to get the sharp edges of the current anxiety dealt with (and then maybe wean off on to natural substances such as Valeran, Kava, Theanine, etc.).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm afraid to take any benzos, I took valium for a couple of days and it sent me right down. I wasn't particularly depressed right before I took it but it got bad quickly. Maybe a different one would be better but I'm not ready to take that step.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > And maybe use the Picamilon during that time period to rebuild the GABA neurotransmitters in the brain?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope this will happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Braverman's book "The Edge Effect" gets a lot more into the various neurotransmitters and all about correcting deficiencies, balancing and optimizing the four main neurotransmitters. Would highly recommend it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where would you say the level of the book is at? I can't seem to get my head around which receptors in which part of the brain do what and it's not from a lack of trying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > Rick
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm reading his book now. I just took the tests and discovered that I am a "GABA nature" and that I have moderate deficiencies in all of the 4 neurotransmitters he deals with. The "GABA nature" was a surprise to me but not the deficiencies. I like his approach in using meds, supplements, lifestyle, diet and CES with the idea of eventually getting you off of meds. I'm still a bit skeptical about the whole idea that we all have a dominant nature and that treatment should revolve around this idea. Also, there are a couple of minor points that I don't think are accurate (i.e. listing Effexor as being dopamine friendly). Overall I think it's interesting, informative and worth a try. I wish that Franco Neuro will come back to PB and post about his progress in working with Dr. Braverman.
> > > >
> > > > K
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Elroy on March 17, 2005, at 15:40:26
In reply to RE: DLPA » Elroy, posted by KaraS on March 17, 2005, at 8:42:49
Actually, there's now being some concern expressed that a tumor found in my left adrenal gland (small lesion, about 2.1 x 1.8 cm) may have something to do with all of this. The contrasting CT scan showed it to be benign. This was found back in late September after it was discovered that I had sky-high cortisol levels. In fact, they first thought that I probably had Cushing's Syndrome caused by a adrenal tumor (the one that was found). Further tests showed however that I didn't have Cushing's, so the adrenal lesion was written off as an "incidental non endocrinological tumor" (that's just sitting there doing nothing). But now there's some question as to whether or not this tumor might be causing unnatural secretion of adrenaline / NE (and thereby causing the anxiety, the raised cortisol, the breakdown of the HPA Axis and HPAT Axis, the neuropathy pains, the tinnitus, etc.). You've got to rememebr that the adrenal has two layers, an outer layer that is the "cortex" and secretes hormones like cortisol, testosterone in women, etc., and an inner layer called the medulla that secretes adreneline and NE.
My regular doc is trying to locate a follow-up separate enocrinologist to send me to who would strictly look into the possible problems with the adrenal tumor and what - if anything - it might be doing......
My own speculation is that if I have an irregular / continual secretion of NE going on, that would account for the constant anxiety (which isn't a social anxiety or a trauma-oriented anxiety, but is a GAD type anxiety but very severe if I'm not on consistent heavy meds - like Xanax). The other symptoms - including the elevated cortisol and the prostatitis type symptoms and peripheral neuropthy and tinnitus and hypogonadism then could be caused by some combination of the high NE and high cortisol and severe anxiety (???).... and would maybe explain how any little spike in the incoming NE (like Effexor) would trigger a prostatitis type flare up....
> That's amazing - esp. considering that Effexor has much less NE at starting doses than Cymbalta. For some reason the NE was more available to you from the Effexor. At any rate, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope that your nature and deficiencies (as defined by Dr. Braverman) don't require taking meds or supplements that impact NE and would aggrivate this problem.
>
> K
Posted by KaraS on March 17, 2005, at 18:04:43
In reply to RE: DLPA » KaraS, posted by Elroy on March 17, 2005, at 15:40:26
Gee, that sounds awful - but at least you have doctors who seem to be getting to the bottom of things (rather than writing you off as a hypochondriac). I'm sure it will be very helpful once they pinpoint what is causing all of this extra cortisol, NE and therefore, anxiety plus all of the other related health problems. It's good in a way that you have some physical problem causing all of the rest of the problems because then it can probably be cured rather than just treated.
Anyway, I can see that you're going through a lot and my thoughts are with you.
Kara
> Actually, there's now being some concern expressed that a tumor found in my left adrenal gland (small lesion, about 2.1 x 1.8 cm) may have something to do with all of this. The contrasting CT scan showed it to be benign. This was found back in late September after it was discovered that I had sky-high cortisol levels. In fact, they first thought that I probably had Cushing's Syndrome caused by a adrenal tumor (the one that was found). Further tests showed however that I didn't have Cushing's, so the adrenal lesion was written off as an "incidental non endocrinological tumor" (that's just sitting there doing nothing). But now there's some question as to whether or not this tumor might be causing unnatural secretion of adrenaline / NE (and thereby causing the anxiety, the raised cortisol, the breakdown of the HPA Axis and HPAT Axis, the neuropathy pains, the tinnitus, etc.). You've got to rememebr that the adrenal has two layers, an outer layer that is the "cortex" and secretes hormones like cortisol, testosterone in women, etc., and an inner layer called the medulla that secretes adreneline and NE.
>
> My regular doc is trying to locate a follow-up separate enocrinologist to send me to who would strictly look into the possible problems with the adrenal tumor and what - if anything - it might be doing......
>
> My own speculation is that if I have an irregular / continual secretion of NE going on, that would account for the constant anxiety (which isn't a social anxiety or a trauma-oriented anxiety, but is a GAD type anxiety but very severe if I'm not on consistent heavy meds - like Xanax). The other symptoms - including the elevated cortisol and the prostatitis type symptoms and peripheral neuropthy and tinnitus and hypogonadism then could be caused by some combination of the high NE and high cortisol and severe anxiety (???).... and would maybe explain how any little spike in the incoming NE (like Effexor) would trigger a prostatitis type flare up....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > That's amazing - esp. considering that Effexor has much less NE at starting doses than Cymbalta. For some reason the NE was more available to you from the Effexor. At any rate, I'm sorry you had to go through that. I hope that your nature and deficiencies (as defined by Dr. Braverman) don't require taking meds or supplements that impact NE and would aggrivate this problem.
> >
> > K
Posted by gromit on March 17, 2005, at 19:32:15
In reply to RE: DLPA » gromit, posted by Elroy on March 15, 2005, at 14:34:40
> Have you had any direct experience with smi2le? I ordered from them quite a while ago. I waited a few weeks only to receive about 1/3 of the order. I am still waiting for the remainder of the order. These people absolutely will NOT respond to e-mails (at least any of mine) and have only had luck getting through to them once by telephone - and that was when they suddenly did send me at least the one part of my order!
Yes I've bought 5+ times from him and always got what I paid for in a reasonable time. This last time they didn't send the creatine I wanted though, I got a note in the package saying it was back ordered. That was a few weeks ago, I guess it's time to shoot them an email. You aren't the only one to complain about the service that's for sure but so far it's been good for me.
Rick
Posted by Elroy on March 18, 2005, at 11:03:30
In reply to RE: DLPA » Elroy, posted by gromit on March 17, 2005, at 19:32:15
Rick,
Let me know if you get any response from them as I am still getting no responses from e-mails or phone calls.
Elroy> > Have you had any direct experience with smi2le? I ordered from them quite a while ago. I waited a few weeks only to receive about 1/3 of the order. I am still waiting for the remainder of the order. These people absolutely will NOT respond to e-mails (at least any of mine) and have only had luck getting through to them once by telephone - and that was when they suddenly did send me at least the one part of my order!
>
> Yes I've bought 5+ times from him and always got what I paid for in a reasonable time. This last time they didn't send the creatine I wanted though, I got a note in the package saying it was back ordered. That was a few weeks ago, I guess it's time to shoot them an email. You aren't the only one to complain about the service that's for sure but so far it's been good for me.
>
>
> Rick
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:18:25
In reply to Re: Selegiline, posted by world citizen on March 10, 2005, at 12:40:52
>
> Hey Mogger,
> according to Dr. Bob at www.restoreunity.org/improving_deprenel your sister might do well to consume some high quality whey protein 20 min. prior to taking the Selegiline. The site above has extensive information about enhancing the effect of S.
>
> WARNING! Anyone subject to drug testing may test positive for methamphetamine while taking Selegiline as meth is a weak metabolite of Selegeline (no buzz).
> World Citizen
The link didn't work.Lar
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