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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 8:02:20
I thought I posted this earlier this morning but can't find the durn thing so here goes again. Monday I began 500 mgs niacinamide qid, 400 mgs calcium citrate and 90 mgs taurine bid to combat the jitterines of 200 mgs of wellbutrin that's now down to 100. Since then I haven't slept more than three hours a night and earlier this morning experienced some disconcerting muscle twitches in my arms and leg as I sat here typing the ghost of this post--I felt like a rabbit's nose. I've also been peeing a lot. I've decreased the niacinamide to 300 and keep forgetting the second dose of taurine. Have any of you experienced insomnia, twitches, and diuresis on these supplements?
rainy
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2004, at 9:25:01
In reply to having trouble with niacinamide??, posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 8:02:20
> I thought I posted this earlier this morning but can't find the durn thing so here goes again. Monday I began 500 mgs niacinamide qid, 400 mgs calcium citrate and 90 mgs taurine bid to combat the jitterines of 200 mgs of wellbutrin that's now down to 100. Since then I haven't slept more than three hours a night and earlier this morning experienced some disconcerting muscle twitches in my arms and leg as I sat here typing the ghost of this post--I felt like a rabbit's nose. I've also been peeing a lot. I've decreased the niacinamide to 300 and keep forgetting the second dose of taurine. Have any of you experienced insomnia, twitches, and diuresis on these supplements?
>
> rainyI fear that you have done too many things, and at too high an intensity. Jumping straight into niacinamide at the maximum dose, while simultaneously manipulating other variables, leaves you without enough information to determine where the problem lies.
My advice is that you cut back on all these changes, and try them individually, after you give your body a couple of days or so to rebalance.
Try lower doses of niacinamide, with that being the only change you make that day. Try and note if it changes your subjective feeling about how the day is going. Give your body a chance to show you what differences niacinamide makes, and adjust the dose accordingly. The same with the other supplements.
Your dose of taurine may be inadequate to have any effect. I don't know for sure, but I use about a gram each time.
You also increased calcium, whereas magnesium is the inhibitory ion in the magnesium/calcium balance. Calcium is excitatory. The diuresis may be to flush calcium, but the loss of water causes muscle spasms.
I know it's hard to be patient, but you must be, if you're going to learn the language of your own body.
Lar
Posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 10:07:26
In reply to Re: having trouble with niacinamide?? » rainy, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2004, at 9:25:01
OK. I misunderstood your original messsage--I thought it was to be a sort of daily dose, like a cocktail. Your suggestions make sense; that's why I cut the niacinamide. I take 1200mg CA with vit D as a daily supplement anyway and have been doing that for a long time. I hate to stop that because I'm at high risk for osteoporosis.
I'm beginning to think that I might have developed a real sensitivity to meds and supplements over these past few years and I know I do have paradoxical responses to some herbs. So caution is the word of the day. Thanks.
rainy
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2004, at 11:05:11
In reply to Re: having trouble with niacinamide?? » Larry Hoover, posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 10:07:26
> OK. I misunderstood your original messsage--I thought it was to be a sort of daily dose, like a cocktail. Your suggestions make sense; that's why I cut the niacinamide. I take 1200mg CA with vit D as a daily supplement anyway and have been doing that for a long time. I hate to stop that because I'm at high risk for osteoporosis.
>
> I'm beginning to think that I might have developed a real sensitivity to meds and supplements over these past few years and I know I do have paradoxical responses to some herbs. So caution is the word of the day. Thanks.
>
> rainyMore on osteoporosis. Bone is mineralized by a crystalline structure called hydroxyapatite. It's mainly calcium, but with a fairly significant magnesium content. Hydroxyapatite is constantly being deposited by osteoblasts, while other cells, called osteoclasts, dissolve the bone away. If your body is deficient in magnesium, it will accelerate the activity of osteoclasts, to liberate magnesium ions from the stores in bone. If you increase intake of calcium during a period of magnesium deficiency, you will do two things. You will cause the bone to be formed from a magnesium-deficient crystal, which is weaker than hydroxyapatite, and you will lock in magnesium deficiency, as the high intake of calcium will inhibit uptake of whatever magnesium happens to be in your diet.
98% of all magnesium in your body is in bone. It can take years to fully remediate a magnesium deficiency. One of the causes of osteoporosis is not calcium deficiency, but instead, magnesium deficiency. Calcium deficiency will do it too, but magnesium deficiency is far more common. And, stress hormones cause the loss of magnesium in urine, so there's a vicious cycle interaction between stress and magnesium, too, with obvious implications for long-term bone health, as well.
Lar
Posted by tealady on December 19, 2004, at 16:02:48
In reply to having trouble with niacinamide??, posted by rainy on December 18, 2004, at 8:02:20
> I thought I posted this earlier this morning but can't find the durn thing so here goes again. Monday I began 500 mgs niacinamide qid, 400 mgs calcium citrate and 90 mgs taurine bid to combat the jitterines of 200 mgs of wellbutrin that's now down to 100. Since then I haven't slept more than three hours a night and earlier this morning experienced some disconcerting muscle twitches in my arms and leg as I sat here typing the ghost of this post--I felt like a rabbit's nose. I've also been peeing a lot. I've decreased the niacinamide to 300 and keep forgetting the second dose of taurine. Have any of you experienced insomnia, twitches, and diuresis on these supplements?
>
> rainy
>
>
If you do discover what caused the peeing a lot could you please let me know?I think it may have been the citrate form..I've unfortunatly an extremely poor memory , so its difficult(impossible) to follow a whole thread of thought thru..but somewhere I hink I read that citrate causes peeing..not sure.
I want to place an order to he US..and I think I want some taurine and magnesium taurate instead of magnesium citrate..but I have to work out the peeing stuff(diuresis/ani-diuresis effect of any supps).
I need supps that help me retain water (as I have no ADH). So far estrogen helps. But I need to rethink other types of supps.Jan
Posted by rainy on December 20, 2004, at 8:33:42
In reply to Re: having trouble with niacinamide?? Lar » rainy, posted by tealady on December 19, 2004, at 16:02:48
Hi, Lar. I think it's because I just lost about four pounds, which I could ill afford to do. The urinary frequency probably had nothing to do with the supplements, which I stopped. Yesterday I started again with 400 mgs of magneseium and nothing unusual happened. Of course I'll let you know if it does.
I couldn't figure out from your last post if I should be taking the mag instead of the calcium or both or what? Go against conventional wisdom, my goodness. My diet is rich in calcium, except for milk which I find revolting, but I've been told by the medical community that that isn't enough. I do have some signs of osteoporosis--can't afford a bone density whatever. Want to do the right thing.
rainy
Posted by corafree on January 12, 2005, at 8:42:46
In reply to Re: having trouble with niacinamide?? » rainy, posted by Larry Hoover on December 18, 2004, at 9:25:01
I've had trouble w/ niacinamide Larry. Recall high dosage causing probs', can't recall exact, believe it was my eyes or skin or going to the bathroom(?) too much. Anyway, a lot of multivites have too high a dosage, don't they? see ya, cf
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