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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 8, 2004, at 12:11:47
Hello again!
I'm still working on the "no calcium, increased magnesium" regime, aiming at reducing headaches that I think are associated with too much calcium. (I also now think that my anxiety & irritability might be related to this, as of reading this board!).
Question: I've now increased Mag. citrate from an original 250mg per day (taken at bedtime), through 325 mg (250mg at night, 125mg at lunch time) up to 500mg per day (125mg am, 125mg midday & 250mg night). I've been on the 500mg for 3 full days, and on day 2 and today (3), I've felt very drowsy, sleepy, for hours in the morning. I also felt somewhat "down" in terms of mental, emotional & physical energy.
Can this be mag. dose related? Will I adjust after a while?
I've also titrated down (doc's orders) my Celexa from 10mg to 5mg, starting 8 days ago. So of course, this might be depression re-surfacing.
It's so frustrating!!!
Opinions???
I'm probably going to stick with the magnesium at 500mg for a few more days, since my I'm headache free!!!! (Yay) and try an alternating day dose of 10 mg Celexa. What do you guys think??
Thanks a bunch.
Jas
Posted by JLx on October 8, 2004, at 23:06:14
In reply to Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness?, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 8, 2004, at 12:11:47
> Question: I've now increased Mag. citrate from an original 250mg per day (taken at bedtime), through 325 mg (250mg at night, 125mg at lunch time) up to 500mg per day (125mg am, 125mg midday & 250mg night). I've been on the 500mg for 3 full days, and on day 2 and today (3), I've felt very drowsy, sleepy, for hours in the morning. I also felt somewhat "down" in terms of mental, emotional & physical energy.
> Can this be mag. dose related? Will I adjust after a while?It's hard to say. I'd suggest that you take it later in the day (dinner, midevening, bedtime) to see if it's mag that's a factor in any morning tiredness.
My experience with magnesium was that just about everything seemed to work differently after I started taking it and then differently again after I'd been taking it a while. Larry H. has described this as a kind of saturation effect.
> I've also titrated down (doc's orders) my Celexa from 10mg to 5mg, starting 8 days ago. So of course, this might be depression re-surfacing.
> It's so frustrating!!!
> Opinions???Magnesium may also be affecting how the Celexa works. When I tried tyrosine in my pre-magnesium days, it made me feel hostile, mean and scarily angry/snappish. Wellbutrin did the same thing. After taking magnesium, I take tyrosine all the time now without that ill effect.
> I'm probably going to stick with the magnesium at 500mg for a few more days, since my I'm headache free!!!! (Yay) and try an alternating day dose of 10 mg Celexa. What do you guys think??
> Thanks a bunch.
> JasThat's great that you're headache free! :) I think it shows that the magnesium is doing something that your body needed. Further experimentation with it will be your only answer.
JL
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 14, 2004, at 18:45:43
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness? » Jasmineneroli, posted by JLx on October 8, 2004, at 23:06:14
Hi Jlx:
I'm now taking 500mg Mag. Citrate at night. No calcium supplements still.
Headache free. No daytime drowsiness. Thanks for the info!
Since I started getting a bit more anxiety again, and was concerned about the "down" feeling. I upped the dose of Celexa back to 10mg per day. Everything is fine now. Still can't wake up in the morning and have several night time wakenings, but that has been ongoing, unchanged, no matter what I do.
So the magnesium is working for me as far as no headaches is concerned. It may also be contributing to anti-anxiety effects of my prescript. drugs, since I'm able to maintain on such very low doses.
All I need now is to counteract the Celexa side effects and not take over an hour to rouse after my alarm goes off in the morning (and sleep right through the night!). :)
Thanks again,
Jas
Posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 0:45:58
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness? » JLx, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 14, 2004, at 18:45:43
Hey Jas,
If you add a little calcium carbonate to your night intake of magnesium I reckon you'll sleep better. I suggest try 300mg magnesium citrate at night and approx. 200mg calcium carbonate at night(up to a max of 300mg calcium carbonate but start with 200mg) with the magnesium
and the other 200mg magnesium in the morning. (or 250mg night and morning, however its easiest to divide up)Might be worth a try for the sleep.
and yes too much magnesium can cause drowsiness.Jan (just a suggestion)
Posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 1:02:04
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness?, posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 0:45:58
Personally I take 100mg magnesium citrate every morning and a calcium carbonate /calcium citrate(about 300mg total calcium) with magnesium citrate/(+ magnesium oxide..as its in the calcium tablet) at night.
The combo of mag and calcium at night is a sleep aid, also good for restless leg syndrome, cramps in legs at night.
I find the 100mg magnesium citrate in the morning enough to help me thru the day but not make me too sleepy at present.
Might be worth trying either calcium carbonate and if that doesn't work, calcium citrate for sounder sleep..not guaranteed but it does help a lot of folk. I wouldn't go above the 300mg calcium though..and probably 200mg would work..the less the better...even a glass of milk(if you are into dairy) at bedtime may be enoughJan
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 15, 2004, at 1:18:58
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness?, posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 1:02:04
Thanks for the suggestion Jan.
I'm a bit leary of the calcium, because I dread getting headaches again.
Why do you suggest Calcium CARBONATE in particular? I feel like the carbonate form was the type that gave me headaches (my supplement combined carbonate and oxide).
I'm sitting here (11pm) at the computer, swirling my feet around, right now, ha! So if calcium can help RLS, that would be wonderful...I just don't want headaches instead!
Thanks again.
Jas
Posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 5:20:30
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness? » tealady, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 15, 2004, at 1:18:58
because the carbonate form binds with thyroid hormones kinda from memory ..which means you should get real slowed down and fall asleep ..if it does do that ( I posted a pubmed abstract on that somewhere here b4)
Many people swear by it for RLS..the calc and mag at night stopped mine I think..and the leg cramps definitely.
Even years ago when I used to only take it occasionally I always knew when I started with RLS or leg cramps if I took a pill for 2 or 3 nigts they'd be gone completely again for a while.
I haven't not taken calcium for a while (as I need it as my bones re kinda disintegrating I think, and calcium blood levels on low side of)
normal) but when I used to forget the calcium/mag supp yrs ago after a few weeks , I'd know it from the leg cramps mainlyJust worth a try..don't try more than 200mg calcium elemental for starters and make sure you always take it with at least the same amount of elemental magnesium.
Jan
Posted by JLx on October 16, 2004, at 20:55:21
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness? » JLx, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 14, 2004, at 18:45:43
Glad to hear the magnesium is effective. :)
>Still can't wake up in the morning and have several night time wakenings, but that has been ongoing, unchanged, no matter what I do.
> So the magnesium is working for me as far as no headaches is concerned. It may also be contributing to anti-anxiety effects of my prescript. drugs, since I'm able to maintain on such very low doses.
> All I need now is to counteract the Celexa side effects and not take over an hour to rouse after my alarm goes off in the morning (and sleep right through the night!). :)I felt squirrelly on Celexa myself, which is why I quit taking it. That was in my pre-magnesium days.
Not sleeping through the night is pretty awful and not good for you body and brain either. It's possible that some calcium might help, you won't know unless you try but if your headaches were calcium excess related, it might be too soon to add back calcium, especially depending on whether you are still eating calcium rich foods.
I think I might go first for the calming amino acids GABA and glycine. I know some people say GABA doesn't pass the blood brain barrier well, while others say it does some. I think Larry has said to use it sparingly, as in not every day.
I take 500 mg glycine myself every night and have for a while, after I read it is especially relaxing to the spine as I have back problems. You might also try niacinamide as it reduces anxiety. The other thing is to try to go to bed early enough so you get to sleep around 10. This reinforces the optimal normal cortisol cycle.
Not feeling awake in the morning may have to do with the disruption that an SSRI has to melatonin. Not sure of the details, but there's some connection.
Here's a study about melatonin and Prozac, with the melatonin helping them sleep. http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/155/8/1119 The amount of melatonin they took seems very high to me. I've experimented with it and take about a quarter to a half of a 1 mg dose. But perhaps it's different being on the medication.
JL
Posted by JLx on October 17, 2004, at 14:29:52
In reply to Re: Can 500mg Mag. cause drowsiness?, posted by tealady on October 15, 2004, at 5:20:30
I woke up too early this morning so I thought I would experiment with calcium to see if it make me sleepy. The night before I took my usual 500 mg magnesium and about 90 mg calcium, so this morning I took the same 90 mg calcium and 200 mg of magnesium glycinate. As I was hoping to drift off, after a while I felt irritability and crankiness creeping up on me, and then a tightening, headachy feeling in my temples. I was clearly not going to go back to sleep, so I took another 200 mg of magnesium and subsequently slept like a baby. :)
I wonder what it means that I am so sensitive to this stuff? I started taking the 90 mg with my dose of mag at night because I was getting some foot cramps.
Eating food like cottage cheese doesn't have the same affect as taking a supplement. Just like with the glutamine, my brain seems to be sensitive to it in isolation.
JL
> because the carbonate form binds with thyroid hormones kinda from memory ..which means you should get real slowed down and fall asleep ..if it does do that ( I posted a pubmed abstract on that somewhere here b4)
>
> Many people swear by it for RLS..the calc and mag at night stopped mine I think..and the leg cramps definitely.
>
> Even years ago when I used to only take it occasionally I always knew when I started with RLS or leg cramps if I took a pill for 2 or 3 nigts they'd be gone completely again for a while.
>
> I haven't not taken calcium for a while (as I need it as my bones re kinda disintegrating I think, and calcium blood levels on low side of)
> normal) but when I used to forget the calcium/mag supp yrs ago after a few weeks , I'd know it from the leg cramps mainly
>
> Just worth a try..don't try more than 200mg calcium elemental for starters and make sure you always take it with at least the same amount of elemental magnesium.
> Jan
>
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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