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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 1, 2004, at 23:58:44
In reference to a prevous thread I started questioning calcium's role in headaches & depression, I just wanted to post a follow-up.
After over a month off the calcium containing supplement, off the Ester C (calcium ascorbate) and pantothenic acid (calcium pantothate). I took the calcium supplement again today.
Result: Previous month - no headache or an occasional mild headache (which I attributed to the jaw-clenching and neck stiffness from Celexa), & no depression. 3 days ago halved my Celexa dose, less jaw clenching, no headache at all.
Today, within 1 1/2 hours of taking the supplement I had a raging headache that pain killers did not touch and a "draggy/low" feeling.
Still have the headache 12 hours later, draggy feeling lifted.
I'm now sure Calcium (carbonate & ascorbate) causes this for me. I'm just not going to take it at all.
Thanks for listening.
Jas
Posted by JLx on October 2, 2004, at 8:31:45
In reply to Calcium is the culprit!, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 1, 2004, at 23:58:44
Hi Jas,
That echoes my experience too.
You're taking magnesium already, right? You might find that it takes a little while to balance from what was probably a calcium overload that is alleviated with magnesium and not taking calcium but then later after (weeks? months?) you might need to add back some calcium. That's how it's been for me anyway.
From, "The Miracle of Magnesium" by Carolyn Dean, M.D. http://print.google.com/print/doc?isbn=0345445880
"In her case it had been made even worse by too much calcium, however, so simple magnesium supplementation wouldn't be enough for Mary. Her diet and lifestyle needed a complete overhaul. I gave Mary a list of magnesium-rich foods that she needed to start eating, which included nuts, beans, greens, and seeds such as sunflower and pumpkin. ... After a week of enthusiastically eating a lot more magnesium-rich foods, Mary felt somewhat better. ... After her second visit I recommended that she begin taking magnesium supplements. Starting with a dosage of 200 mg a day, we added another 200 mg every two days to build slowly to 600 mg. I cautioned her that it could take months to eliminate magnesium deficiency symptoms and that not all her symptoms would necessarily respond. Within two months, however, Mary was singing the praises of magnesium. Her palpitations and panic attacks had disappeared. Her cravings for sweets were fewer, she was able to control her blood sugar with diet alone, and tests for blood sugar were normal. Her leg cramps were gone, and with them her insomnia. At three months we added calcium along with magnesium so that she would not develop an imbalance of the two." http://print.google.com/print/doc?isbn=0345445880
I think I waited too long to try adding back some calcium, especially as I read recently that too much magnesium (just like calcium) can actually result in not getting the magnesium you take. It's important to balance these minerals, the trick is figuring out what ratio for each of us.
But isn't it great to come across something that has such a noticeable impact? :)
I've wondered if one reason why women have more depression than men is because of all the calcium we're told to take to prevent osteoporosis. I'd like to see a study about that!
JL
> In reference to a prevous thread I started questioning calcium's role in headaches & depression, I just wanted to post a follow-up.
> After over a month off the calcium containing supplement, off the Ester C (calcium ascorbate) and pantothenic acid (calcium pantothate). I took the calcium supplement again today.
> Result: Previous month - no headache or an occasional mild headache (which I attributed to the jaw-clenching and neck stiffness from Celexa), & no depression. 3 days ago halved my Celexa dose, less jaw clenching, no headache at all.
> Today, within 1 1/2 hours of taking the supplement I had a raging headache that pain killers did not touch and a "draggy/low" feeling.
> Still have the headache 12 hours later, draggy feeling lifted.
> I'm now sure Calcium (carbonate & ascorbate) causes this for me. I'm just not going to take it at all.
> Thanks for listening.
> Jas
Posted by tealady on October 2, 2004, at 9:42:51
In reply to Calcium is the culprit!, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 1, 2004, at 23:58:44
> In reference to a prevous thread I started questioning calcium's role in headaches & depression, I just wanted to post a follow-up.
HI Jas,
..gee that month has flown
> After over a month off the calcium containing supplement, off the Ester C (calcium ascorbate) and pantothenic acid (calcium pantothate). I took the calcium supplement again today.
> Result: Previous month - no headache or an occasional mild headache (which I attributed to the jaw-clenching and neck stiffness from Celexa), & no depression. 3 days ago halved my Celexa dose, less jaw clenching, no headache at all.
> Today, within 1 1/2 hours of taking the supplement I had a raging headache that pain killers did not touch and a "draggy/low" feeling.
> Still have the headache 12 hours later, draggy feeling lifted.
> I'm now sure Calcium (carbonate & ascorbate) causes this for me. I'm just not going to take it at all.
> Thanks for listening.
> Jas
Thanks for the update..you were right after all about it being too much calcium.
Good to see you dropped the calcium.
Did you drop all 3?
Probably if you need to get B5, calcium panthonate wouldn't hurt..but I can't see any need for you to take calcium carbonate ...
And if you ever want VitC , just try ordinary ascorbic acid...although that's something usually not needed in larger amounts daily either.
Most people do get enough calcium in their diets, especially if they have some dairy and don't need any supps in calcium.
Too much calcium in supps can lead to kidney stones for many.That said, I need to take a daily calcium/magn at night..but then I've other problems too which leads me to need to fight just to maintain BMD...oh, and I like to reduce my thyroid hormone levels at night too.
Jan
Posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 13:29:57
In reply to Re: Calcium is the culprit! » Jasmineneroli, posted by tealady on October 2, 2004, at 9:42:51
Congratulations on your discovery. I'm trying to get my dad to follow similar advise but he isn't budging. He has chronic migraines, and depression, and chews on calcium antacids all day. He's set in his ways though, and is not very open to new ideas.
Oh well, there's always hope for the future.
I second the idea of getting an good magnesium supplement. This will further reduce the damage the excess calcium has done and will add to your health.
Posted by Jasmineneroli on October 2, 2004, at 17:50:33
In reply to Re: Calcium is the culprit!, posted by Optimist on October 2, 2004, at 13:29:57
I appreciate your responses.
Yes, I am taking magnesium. I was taking 200mg at bedtime in the Amino Acid Chelate form. But after reading some links provided by posters here, that showed it might not be the best form, I switched to Magnesium Citrate (250mg nightly). It is difficult, where I live, to find many different forms of magnesium, besides Oxide, in stores. It's even hard to find it alone, without calcium - Health food store personnel are constantly telling me I shouldn't take Mag. alone!
I now plan to increase my magnesium citrate dosage, slowly up to 500mg per day. Then I'll creep up to another 100mg per day of another form of magnesium (maybe the chelate??). I want to be careful, though, because both citrate & chelate give me slight diahrrea/soft stools.
Raybakes was kind enough to give me some links on neuro excitotoxicity. Where excess glutamate = excess calcium. Glutamate is an antagonist of GABA, and excess calcium causes headaches/depression. I'm sure both are totally relevant causes in my anxiety attacks (GAD), headaches and occasional depression. I would LOVE to be med free! If I can put my brain back in balance with magnesium and then cautiously add a BIT of calcium, I would be deliriously happy! I would love get back the person I was before hormones and life-events interfered!
JLX: Thanks for the book excerpt..I agree with the amounts suggested.
JAN: Yes, I will go back on reg. Vit C. and B5.
OPTIMIST: Good luck with your Dad, it's absolutely worth trying. But I know how stubborn the older male population can be :) :)!
*I'll check back in and report on my upped magnesium doseage.
Thanks, you guys!
Jas
Posted by Optimist on October 3, 2004, at 12:44:11
In reply to Re: Calcium is the culprit! Thanks everyone, posted by Jasmineneroli on October 2, 2004, at 17:50:33
> I appreciate your responses.
> Yes, I am taking magnesium. I was taking 200mg at bedtime in the Amino Acid Chelate form. But after reading some links provided by posters here, that showed it might not be the best form, I switched to Magnesium Citrate (250mg nightly). It is difficult, where I live, to find many different forms of magnesium, besides Oxide, in stores. It's even hard to find it alone, without calcium - Health food store personnel are constantly telling me I shouldn't take Mag. alone!
> I now plan to increase my magnesium citrate dosage, slowly up to 500mg per day. Then I'll creep up to another 100mg per day of another form of magnesium (maybe the chelate??). I want to be careful, though, because both citrate & chelate give me slight diahrrea/soft stools.
> Raybakes was kind enough to give me some links on neuro excitotoxicity. Where excess glutamate = excess calcium. Glutamate is an antagonist of GABA, and excess calcium causes headaches/depression. I'm sure both are totally relevant causes in my anxiety attacks (GAD), headaches and occasional depression. I would LOVE to be med free! If I can put my brain back in balance with magnesium and then cautiously add a BIT of calcium, I would be deliriously happy! I would love get back the person I was before hormones and life-events interfered!
> JLX: Thanks for the book excerpt..I agree with the amounts suggested.
> JAN: Yes, I will go back on reg. Vit C. and B5.
> OPTIMIST: Good luck with your Dad, it's absolutely worth trying. But I know how stubborn the older male population can be :) :)!
> *I'll check back in and report on my upped magnesium doseage.
> Thanks, you guys!
> Jas
I know that diahrea can be a sign of too much magnesium so you may want to lower your dose to a point where this doesn't happen.I've heard that it's important to take on an empty stomach as well, preferably in the evening. Calcium competes with the magnesium and can negate it's absorbtion if taken together. Calcium located in a meal may inhibit the magnesium as well, which is another reason to take it on an empty stomach.
I know it can be confusing hearing information from so many different people. The best I can say is to develop your own analytical skills to best find the gems of information where ever they may be.
This is the end of the thread.
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