![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 206 to 230 of 435. Go back in thread:
Posted by raybakes on September 28, 2004, at 14:10:19
In reply to tyrosine to Noradrenaline, low pain threshold » raybakes, posted by tealady on September 28, 2004, at 6:41:55
> also I have NO idea of the difference between noradrenaline (or norepinephrine )Yeah I'm the same, they always seem to be lumped together, so don't know of the differences between them - have to look up my A&P book again!
> I do know I can't tolerate stress well..
I can relate to some of that - I can shake if I've had an argument with someone. Usually avoid confrontation at all costs though!! Run away, run away!
>
> PS. I've been researching "thyroid" stuff for about 3 years now(been on thyroid hormones that long)..so I'm kinda mostly "up" on thyroid hormones...but I'm sure lost on adrenals, kidneys, liver etc <grin>.I haven't looked too much into the workings of the kidney, but have spent a lot of time studying liver detoxification pathway, if that's any use?
>
> RT3 is usually raised in nonthyroidal illness...as in hospital patients. The body decides it does not want a lot of normal T3 around for some reason in illness...maybe that forces a person to rest? as their bodies need the rest to recover?It seems the cytokines of the immune system are involved in raising RT3 (IL1, IL6), which is fine for normal infection, but when we have chronic inflammation and/or infection, it's likely that RT3 will remain high all the time....so many people with chronic health problems seem to have trigger happy immune systems!
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2265.1996.668489.x/abs/
>
> My RT3 was in normal range...but then I never got a T3 to compare it with...can't get one in Oz..only FT3.Here in the UK it's sometimes difficult to get good tests - might get great smokies test done through an agency here soon, though.
>
> My anti TPO are over 2000 in August...ended up taking some cortisol for a few days...it feels like it lowers the antibodies...but it sure isn't something I recommend doing..or want to do too much.
> If I don't take the cortisol when my antibodies are raging I partly lose my vision...as well as feel rotten..I can actually feel them in my thyroid..feels a bit like tonsillitis in my thyroid.I'm trying some transdermal glutathione at the moment to reduce my antibodies, feels great on my gut so far, though sometimes need to take riboflavin 5 phosphate and selenium solution with it. Glutathione also stops the production of inflammatory cytokines, and reduces TPO antibodies...
In this study, selenium combined with T4 reduced TPO antibodies by nearly 50% - T4 alone reduced them by around 25%.
> At present it's just a scratchy feeling there.
> I have been diagnosed with thyroiditis.
> Actually, strangely I find penicillin helps too(took a course of that too)..also with my daughters psoriasis..same deal..although I "know" viruses and bacteria are different<grin>wonder whether penicillin is having an anti-inflammatory effect, directly, or by being antibacterial? I do brilliantly with lactoferrin, and antioxidant, antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, anti-inflammatory, iron carrying protein - no wonder it's rich in mother's milk!
> I never knew about interleukin..I've heard the name before, but I get lost...seems to be something I need to investigate.In autoimmune disease, IL1, IL6, gamma interferon and TNFalpha, are the immune messengers that go around creating all the mischief!
> How did you find out about your genetic defect?
sent samples off to america for great smokies 'genovations' gene tests. Expensive though!
>
> Nice to "meet" you, been reading some of your posts,
And nice to meet you too!Ray
Posted by raybakes on September 28, 2004, at 14:23:30
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » raybakes, posted by Simus on September 28, 2004, at 7:55:46
> In my research on adrenal fatigue, I have read more than once that autoimmune disorders such as Hashimoto's Disease can be triggered by adrenal fatigue. Also, one of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue is unexplained pain. Therefore, without knowing any of the other facts here, I would question if the "subset of patients" referred to by Dr. Lowe might actually have adrenal fatigue. Hmmm...
>
Hi Simus, thanks for your reply - I wonder if adrenal fatigue can cause thyroid problems and also the other way round, that thyroid problems can cause adrenal fatigue?
I suppose low cortisol might increase inflammatory chemicals and so predispose us to autoimmunity? and it does seem that hypothyroid fatigues the adrenals too, according to this study!...
Ray
Posted by Simus on September 28, 2004, at 21:28:06
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 28, 2004, at 14:23:30
> > In my research on adrenal fatigue, I have read more than once that autoimmune disorders such as Hashimoto's Disease can be triggered by adrenal fatigue. Also, one of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue is unexplained pain. Therefore, without knowing any of the other facts here, I would question if the "subset of patients" referred to by Dr. Lowe might actually have adrenal fatigue. Hmmm...
> >
>
>
> Hi Simus, thanks for your reply - I wonder if adrenal fatigue can cause thyroid problems and also the other way round, that thyroid problems can cause adrenal fatigue?Yeah, I wish I knew. I wish more in general was known about the endocrine system.
> I suppose low cortisol might increase inflammatory chemicals and so predispose us to autoimmunity? and it does seem that hypothyroid fatigues the adrenals too, according to this study!...
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15007197
>
> RayAnd to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
Simus
Posted by tealady on September 28, 2004, at 22:04:26
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » raybakes, posted by Simus on September 28, 2004, at 21:28:06
> > > In my research on adrenal fatigue, I have read more than once that autoimmune disorders such as Hashimoto's Disease can be triggered by adrenal fatigue. Also, one of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue is unexplained pain. Therefore, without knowing any of the other facts here, I would question if the "subset of patients" referred to by Dr. Lowe might actually have adrenal fatigue. Hmmm...
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hi Simus, thanks for your reply - I wonder if adrenal fatigue can cause thyroid problems and also the other way round, that thyroid problems can cause adrenal fatigue?
>
> Yeah, I wish I knew. I wish more in general was known about the endocrine system.
>
> > I suppose low cortisol might increase inflammatory chemicals and so predispose us to autoimmunity? and it does seem that hypothyroid fatigues the adrenals too, according to this study!...
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15007197
> >
> > Ray
>
> And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???yep, well that's true!!
It probably happens as treating the hypothyroidism means your metabolism kicks in..but your adrenals..which are already struggling with a slowed down system have to step up function ..and they can't
Other thing to check and treat first is your ferritin levels...similar reasoning probably.Jan (who experienced both)
Posted by raybakes on September 29, 2004, at 13:49:39
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » raybakes, posted by Simus on September 28, 2004, at 21:28:06
> And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
>
Hi Simus, this study supports your view about treating adrenals first..Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1332472Ray
Posted by karaS on September 29, 2004, at 14:25:16
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 29, 2004, at 13:49:39
>
> > And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
> >
> Hi Simus, this study supports your view about treating adrenals first..
>
> Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1332472
>
> Ray
>
I wonder how that translates for people with adrenal fatigue who are already taking thyroid hormone and have been for years. I only take 50 mcg. a day of thyroxine and I'm not completely certain that I have adrenal fatigue (but I probably do). I have been feeling a lot better in terms of the adrenal fatigue type symptoms lately but I wonder if I might be better off not taking the thyroxine.-K
Posted by Simus on September 29, 2004, at 18:17:37
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 29, 2004, at 13:49:39
>
> > And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
> >
> Hi Simus, this study supports your view about treating adrenals first..
>
> Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.
>
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1332472
>
> Ray
>Ray,
(((jumping up and down))) (((jumping up and down))) (((HUG))) or if you are a man,(((handshake - but enthusiatic one)))
I have tested normal for thyroid hormones with the exception of TSH, which was out of range high but not extremely so. I never fit the profile of someone with thyroid problems (I lean more towards symptoms of hyper though), but my symptoms line up exactly with those of adrenal fatigue. I never knew what to do with the high TSH info. My naturopathic dr said I was hypothyroid based on my TSH, and gave me bladderwrack (iodine source) which I never had the courage to take because I have never done well with iodine or thyroid hormones. Now I have hope that I am similar to cases 5&6 in the study whose TSH normalized when the adrenal function improved. That finally makes sense.
Simus
Posted by TeeJay on September 29, 2004, at 19:56:40
In reply to What is n acetyl cysteine supposed to do? (nm), posted by tealady on September 28, 2004, at 6:01:48
Cysteine is an amino acid but in the form mentioned in my post, its supposed to be very good for breaking down mucous in the body and as such is recommended for ex-smokers to clear out their lungs of "rubbish". I just had a few left over from when I stopped smoking and I hate to chuck supplements away that are still in date.
Only got a few left and take just 1 500mg capsule each morning.
TJ
Posted by tealady on September 29, 2004, at 22:51:10
In reply to Re: What is n acetyl cysteine supposed to do?, posted by TeeJay on September 29, 2004, at 19:56:40
> Cysteine is an amino acid but in the form mentioned in my post, its supposed to be very good for breaking down mucous in the body and as such is recommended for ex-smokers to clear out their lungs of "rubbish". I just had a few left over from when I stopped smoking and I hate to chuck supplements away that are still in date.
>
> Only got a few left and take just 1 500mg capsule each morning.That's interesting.
I'd never heard of anyone taking it before, so just wondered...doubt if I could get it over here , actually don't even think I'd heard of it b4<g>. Heard a bit about cysteine and acetyl as words ..that's about it<g>
I was wondering if you knew of some benefits from combining the selenium and the n acetyl cysteine when I read this on selenocysteine from...
(Selenium research in mammals using nuclear analytical methods and related techniques in conjunction with biochemical procedures D. Behne, D. Alber, A. Kyriakopoulos)
"After ingestion of selenite, selenate or selenocysteine, nearly all of the
metabolized element is incorporated into specific biologically active selenoproteins in which it is present in the form of selenocystein"
"After ingestion of selenite, selenate or selenocysteine, nearly all of the
metabolized element is incorporated into specific biologically active selenoproteins in which it is present in the form of selenocysteine. Their levels are homeostatically controlled and cannot be further increased by additional Se supplementation. "In the case of dietary selenomethionine, a part of the element is a certain percentage, however, is deposited directly and non-specifically into proteins in place of methionine. This part depends on the ratio of selenomethionine and methionine in the diet and can be considerably increased by raising the dietary selenomethionine intake.
I take selenomethione (equiv to 25mcg selenium occasionally)..maybe twice a week, as my blood levels were above range and I get more fatigued if I take 50 mcg for a few days...and get a metallic taste in my mouth.
I've no idea what I'm doing really...sounds like I use it to replace some of the methionine as I don't supps in that at all?
What form do you take?
Also from same paper..and on not taking too much...
"Selenium is also highly toxic and the range between deficiency and the first signs of toxicity is relatively small."Jan
>
> TJ
Posted by raybakes on September 30, 2004, at 16:50:43
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by Simus on September 29, 2004, at 18:17:37
> (((jumping up and down))) (((jumping up and down))) (((HUG))) or if you are a man,(((handshake - but enthusiatic one)))Thank you, hug and handshake gladly accepted!
>
> I have tested normal for thyroid hormones with the exception of TSH, which was out of range high but not extremely so. I never fit the profile of someone with thyroid problems (I lean more towards symptoms of hyper though), but my symptoms line up exactly with those of adrenal fatigue. I never knew what to do with the high TSH info. My naturopathic dr said I was hypothyroid based on my TSH, and gave me bladderwrack (iodine source) which I never had the courage to take because I have never done well with iodine or thyroid hormones. Now I have hope that I am similar to cases 5&6 in the study whose TSH normalized when the adrenal function improved. That finally makes sense.
Yeah, think there must be so many different thyroid dysfunction scenarios... is it primary hypothyroid and secondary hyper/hypoadrenalisim, or primary hypoadrenalism and secondary hypothyroidism....or primary hypoadrenalism and secondary hyperpituitary. Think it must be important to have a map of what's going on, but seems most practitioners just want to give T4 or iodine. No one really talks about healing the adrenals or thyroid before trying to boost them. Have been trying some of the ideas out on my girlfriend using kinesiology and homeopathic testers to work out how to help heal her thyroid.Ray
Posted by raybakes on September 30, 2004, at 16:55:53
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » raybakes, posted by karaS on September 29, 2004, at 14:25:16
> > >
>
>
> I wonder how that translates for people with adrenal fatigue who are already taking thyroid hormone and have been for years. I only take 50 mcg. a day of thyroxine and I'm not completely certain that I have adrenal fatigue (but I probably do). I have been feeling a lot better in terms of the adrenal fatigue type symptoms lately but I wonder if I might be better off not taking the thyroxine.
>
> -K
Difficult to know what to do - thyroxine, does lower thyroid antibodies by around 25% - 30% for some people so you might get an increase. I'm working on my girlfriend using some of the info I've learnt from our chats on here - will let you know how it goes!Ray
Posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 19:53:38
In reply to Re: More jokes, licorice » tealady, posted by JLx on September 28, 2004, at 11:07:38
> As it happens, I have an interview as a medical transcriptionist on Friday. This is something I did as an entry level position 20 years ago into what evolved as a career in medical records. It's been a lot of years since I actually did transcription and didn't particularly like it then, but of course, everything is different now. Transcription requires a lot of concentration while also being quite boring somehow, but still I would be very pleased to have this job. It's full time and should pay better hourly than my tax job will once tax season starts. It could be the chance I need to get back on my feet financially.
>
> It would also be the chance I need to get back into my field. I kept up my C.E. credits and am still credentialed as a "registered health information manager" but my experience is too old to impress anyone. Yesterday when I was called for the interview I was happy and excited, but today I am feeling anxious and afraid of being disappointed. <sigh>
>I'm not sure what a medical transcriptionist is? Someone on the thyroid forum did that too I think, so it must be a US type job? ..sooo what do they do?
Whatever, I agree about the job. Good for some self esteem, like you feel like you are contributing something in the cogwheel but more so for some independence.
My last interview..about 3 years ago, I totally blew..and it should have been a walk in..but ya don't want to hear about that.
I'll try to reply more later...just wanted to wish you good luck.Oh what are C.E. credits too..and I guess you're training is something in the health field?
> It's so true what the Buddhists say about attachment and suffering. It's kind of hard not to be "attached" to wanting to have a job though!
>hmm what do Buddists say...though I can see they are related.
Jan
> JL
>
>
Posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 20:10:32
In reply to Re: More jokes, licorice » tealady, posted by JLx on September 28, 2004, at 11:07:38
> Thanks for the warning about licorice. I remember talking about it before now and thinking it might not be a good idea after all. Actually I think I'm not going to really try anything new just yet, just tweak the stuff I already have.
Here's one thread on it.. I guess you know about setting "advanced" view to view up to 20 posts at once..bottom RHS
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroiduk/messages?msg=2569.1I still have to take some licorice as without it I end up having to take cortisol and raising the amounts of various minerals, fiddling.. I'm trying to wean off..but I get kinda stressed out and its such a relief to take some...and this is only lollies..not huge doses..actually I might get around to phoning up the company for the strength today.
>
> Some great jokes, thanks! I've seen a number of those lists but this was a new one.
They were new to me too.
Posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 20:22:15
In reply to Re: More jokes, licorice » tealady, posted by JLx on September 28, 2004, at 11:07:38
I know C.E. continuing education credits.
Seen them on the web
Oh and it s Friday already here.
Jan
Posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 20:25:11
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 30, 2004, at 16:50:43
>No one really talks about healing the adrenals or thyroid before trying to boost them. Have been trying some of the ideas out on my girlfriend using kinesiology and homeopathic testers to work out how to help heal her thyroid.
>
> RayPlease let us know if you have any success. Lots of us out there need our thyroids healed!
-K
Posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 20:27:31
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?- Larry » karaS, posted by raybakes on September 30, 2004, at 16:55:53
> > > >
> >
> >
> > I wonder how that translates for people with adrenal fatigue who are already taking thyroid hormone and have been for years. I only take 50 mcg. a day of thyroxine and I'm not completely certain that I have adrenal fatigue (but I probably do). I have been feeling a lot better in terms of the adrenal fatigue type symptoms lately but I wonder if I might be better off not taking the thyroxine.
> >
> > -K
>
> Difficult to know what to do - thyroxine, does lower thyroid antibodies by around 25% - 30% for some people so you might get an increase. I'm working on my girlfriend using some of the info I've learnt from our chats on here - will let you know how it goes!
>
> Ray
I think I'll stay on it for now. I can't afford to become less functional now.Thanks,
K
Posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 21:17:35
In reply to Re: What is n acetyl cysteine supposed to do?, posted by TeeJay on September 29, 2004, at 19:56:40
> Cysteine is an amino acid but in the form mentioned in my post, its supposed to be very good for breaking down mucous in the body and as such is recommended for ex-smokers to clear out their lungs of "rubbish". I just had a few left over from when I stopped smoking and I hate to chuck supplements away that are still in date.
>
> Only got a few left and take just 1 500mg capsule each morning.
>
> TJ
Also good for fighting against neurotoxicity via glutathoine.-Kara
Posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 21:34:37
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by Simus on September 29, 2004, at 18:17:37
> >
> > > And to complicate matters, I have read that in people with both adrenal fatigue and hypothyroidism, the adrenal fatigue should be treated first. People with both can feel worse if given thyroid hormone before the adrenals are stronger. ???
> > >
> > Hi Simus, this study supports your view about treating adrenals first..
> >
> > Evaluation of thyroid function in patients with isolated adrenocorticotropin deficiency.
> >
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=1332472
> >
> > Ray
> >
>
> Ray,
>
> (((jumping up and down))) (((jumping up and down))) (((HUG))) or if you are a man,(((handshake - but enthusiatic one)))
>
> I have tested normal for thyroid hormones with the exception of TSH, which was out of range high but not extremely so. I never fit the profile of someone with thyroid problems (I lean more towards symptoms of hyper though), but my symptoms line up exactly with those of adrenal fatigue. I never knew what to do with the high TSH info. My naturopathic dr said I was hypothyroid based on my TSH, and gave me bladderwrack (iodine source) which I never had the courage to take because I have never done well with iodine or thyroid hormones. Now I have hope that I am similar to cases 5&6 in the study whose TSH normalized when the adrenal function improved. That finally makes sense.
>
> Simus
Hey, I started Raybakes on this thread... don't I get any of the credit? :-)Kidding of course. I'm glad you have your answer. I'm still confused about my neighbor's condition. She doesn't have adrenal fatigue symptoms at all. She's thinking possibly hyperpituitary is her real problem. Maybe she's right.
Kara
Posted by JLx on September 30, 2004, at 21:48:24
In reply to Good luck with the interview today » JLx, posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 19:53:38
> I'm not sure what a medical transcriptionist is? Someone on the thyroid forum did that too I think, so it must be a US type job? ..sooo what do they do?Medical transcriptionists type the dictation of doctors: operative reports, histories and physicals, discharge summaries, etc. It's a slightly different skill from regular typing because you are listening and then typing what you hear, and of course, you have to be able to decipher what they're saying by knowing medical terminology. Anywhere there are health records, there are medical transcriptionists, except Third World medical facilities possibly where everything is done by hand, or unless very effective voice recognition software is being used. This is the Australia organization for my former profession: http://www.himaa.org.au/him.html My life fell apart about the time that records were really getting computerized, so I'm not up to date, that's my problem with picking up where I left off. Too many years of technological change.
> My last interview..about 3 years ago, I totally blew..and it should have been a walk in..but ya don't want to hear about that.
> I'll try to reply more later...just wanted to wish you good luck.Thanks. :) I've been trying to not worry before the fact, doing pretty well until tonight. Tomorrow I will load up on niacinamide and GABA!
> > It's so true what the Buddhists say about attachment and suffering. It's kind of hard not to be "attached" to wanting to have a job though!
> >
>
> hmm what do Buddists say...though I can see they are related.One of the 4 Noble Truths of Buddhism http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html is, "The origin of suffering is attachment." The idea in this instance, I think, is that I do my best in the interview when the time comes and then let go of the outcome. To the extent that I am thinking how desperate I am, and well, craving and desiring this job I'm suffering, especially if I don't get it. It's tricky business, to want something bad enough to go after it, but then be able to let go at the same time.
JL
Posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 22:28:10
In reply to Re: More jokes, licorice » tealady, posted by JLx on September 28, 2004, at 11:07:38
Posting here in bits and pieces as I come across them.
Here's another thread where I mentioned licorice
..might be intersting to some., although I may have mentioned this thread before.
End of thread if what I've been looking at lately re osmosis..no results as yet though.
Were you taking calcium supps when you got the kidney stones?..sorry bad memory today
http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroid/messages?msg=53370.1Here' some of Larry's post on licorice, but I thought there was another more recent one?
I give up looking for the more recent one..but if anyone comes across it ..ah,maybe I dreamt it.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20021108/msgs/126943.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031023/msgs/275736.html
Jan
Posted by raybakes on October 1, 2004, at 7:20:25
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » raybakes, posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 20:27:31
Hi Kara, came across this info about the relationship between selenium and iodine in thyroid health. Thyroxine production is quite a dangerous process as thyroid peroxidase produces the powerful free radical hyrogen peroxide, to oxidise iodine before adding it to thyroxine. N acetyl cysteine has been mentioned on this thread recently and both selenium and NAC are needed for glutathione peroxidase synthesis, to protect the thyroid from being damaged by it's own hydrogen peroxide - defficiency in glutathione/selenium has been suggested as one of the factors leading to hashimoto's. To take iodine when there is a glutathione/selenium deficiency, could cause the thyroid to produce more hydrogen peroxide than it can manage, and exacerbate the thyroid problems - the article also says too much selenium causes problems because it acclerates the T4-T3 conversion, exhausting supplies of T4.
Hope it's interesting!
a selenium deficiency causes an iodine deficiency to get worse. This may be a protective adaptation by the body to limit the damage caused to the thyroid when selenium is deficient and iodine is adequate. Let's examine this part of the interaction.We've all heard that many doctors tell hypo patients, especially those with Hashimoto's thyroiditis, not to take iodine because it can aggravate their condition. The reason seems to be that selenium protects the thyroid gland from oxidative damage and this damage can increase significantly if iodine is supplemented. Taking iodine will increase thyroid hormone production and the production of H2O2 which damages the thyroidal cells. The lack of selenium prevents GPX from being able to protect the cells from this oxidative damage. While I doubt if most doctors realize why iodine should be restricted (it certainly seemed counter-intuitive to me at first), they have learned through experience that iodine can increase the thyroid damage in Hashimoto's. The information that selenium should be supplemented along with iodine is so new that most of them are unaware of it.
Here's what we have: Studies have shown that if iodine is low, selenium must also be kept low to prevent the hypothyroidism from becoming worse (from increased DI-I and T4 depletion, as explained above.) So if both minerals are low, then the person is hypo and gets a goiter, but the damage to the thyroid is kept to a minimum. More severe problems happen when either selenium or iodine is high and the other is low. If selenium is high and iodine low, then T4 to T3 to T2 conversion is accelerated without T4 being replenished, leading to a worsening of the hypoT. If iodine is high and selenium is low, then H2O2 is not degraded by GPX. Since H2O2 drives the thyroid hormone production, then the thyroid over-produces thyroid hormone (Grave's hyperthyroidism), the thyroid is damaged from the oxidation by the H2O2, and the end result is that the damaged thyroid ultimately decreases activity and hypothyroidism results (Hashimoto's thyroiditis). This could explain the observed progression of Grave's to Hashimoto's.
Posted by Simus on October 1, 2004, at 7:20:59
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » Simus, posted by raybakes on September 30, 2004, at 16:50:43
I wonder about kinesiology... What is your opinion?
Simus
Posted by Simus on October 1, 2004, at 7:40:11
In reply to Re: More jokes, licorice » JLx, posted by tealady on September 30, 2004, at 20:10:32
> > Thanks for the warning about licorice. I remember talking about it before now and thinking it might not be a good idea after all. Actually I think I'm not going to really try anything new just yet, just tweak the stuff I already have.
> Here's one thread on it.. I guess you know about setting "advanced" view to view up to 20 posts at once..bottom RHS
> http://forums.about.com/ab-thyroiduk/messages?msg=2569.1
>
> I still have to take some licorice as without it I end up having to take cortisol and raising the amounts of various minerals, fiddling.. I'm trying to wean off..but I get kinda stressed out and its such a relief to take some...and this is only lollies..not huge doses..actually I might get around to phoning up the company for the strength today.
>
> >
> > Some great jokes, thanks! I've seen a number of those lists but this was a new one.
> They were new to me too.
>
>
I am giving up on licorice. I took it in capsule form and became very ill (may or may not have been from the licorice). Then I bought a tincture and put it in my tea because I wanted to give it a fair try but I wanted to control the quantity. After sipping about 1/2 c. of tea, I started feeling a little worse - but not as bad as on the capsule. Anyway, I guess I will try something different.Simus
Posted by Simus on October 1, 2004, at 7:48:03
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? » Simus, posted by karaS on September 30, 2004, at 21:34:37
> > (((jumping up and down))) (((jumping up and down))) (((HUG))) or if you are a man,(((handshake - but enthusiatic one)))
> >
> > I have tested normal for thyroid hormones with the exception of TSH, which was out of range high but not extremely so. I never fit the profile of someone with thyroid problems (I lean more towards symptoms of hyper though), but my symptoms line up exactly with those of adrenal fatigue. I never knew what to do with the high TSH info. My naturopathic dr said I was hypothyroid based on my TSH, and gave me bladderwrack (iodine source) which I never had the courage to take because I have never done well with iodine or thyroid hormones. Now I have hope that I am similar to cases 5&6 in the study whose TSH normalized when the adrenal function improved. That finally makes sense.
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> Hey, I started Raybakes on this thread... don't I get any of the credit? :-)(((Jumping up and down for Kara))) ((Jumping up and down for Kara))) (((hug for you too)))
>
> Kidding of course. I'm glad you have your answer. I'm still confused about my neighbor's condition. She doesn't have adrenal fatigue symptoms at all. She's thinking possibly hyperpituitary is her real problem. Maybe she's right.
>
> KaraCould be pituitary... I wonder if that would be difficult to test for...
Simus
Posted by raybakes on October 1, 2004, at 13:36:30
In reply to Kinesiology » raybakes, posted by Simus on October 1, 2004, at 7:20:59
> I wonder about kinesiology... What is your opinion?
>
It's really helped me a lot but I did see four of five kinesiologists before I found a good one. I found it a useful feedback tool, and it's only as good as the person using it. It is very easy to influence the testing, so it's so important to keep your mind in neutral when working!Tried some of the ideas on this thread on my GF, who has menstual irregularities, to see if she had a thyroid problem. Using homeopathic testers I tested Ig G, Ig E, Ig M and Ig A, whilst touching her thyroid to see if she muscle tested for antibodies to her thyroid (Ig G tested positive) - then tried supplements to see which supplements would abolish the response - transdermal glutathione, B1, lipoic acid, riboflavin, niacinamide and selenium, together all abolished the muscle response to Ig G.
She's not that keen on taking supplements, so not sure she'll stick at it, but it was a useful experiment!
Ray
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.