![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on August 8, 2004, at 16:41:00
Hi All,
I posted over on the med board to get thoughts on the inflammatory process and depression. I won't repeat the whole post here, but I'm wondering if it is possible for a low-dose interferon treatment I had years ago to have triggered an immune response that long outlasts the treatment and perpetuates mood problems.
I am wondering what alternative treatments might be immunomodulating and help any inflammatory processes. I know fish oil does this. I know SJW is supposed to as well, but I didn't do well with SJW.
Thanks,
Emme
Posted by linkadge on August 8, 2004, at 18:57:05
In reply to immune system/ depression, posted by Emme on August 8, 2004, at 16:41:00
Aspirin was shown in one study to be beneficial to depressed patients.
The immune system has a lot to do with depression. One time I was so suicidal, and I took some advil for a headache, and it actually seemed that the suicidal thinking really subsided. I have heard other reports of indeviduals helped by antiinflamitories at certain stages of mental illness.
Linkadge
Posted by Emme on August 9, 2004, at 6:17:26
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression, posted by linkadge on August 8, 2004, at 18:57:05
> Aspirin was shown in one study to be beneficial to depressed patients.
>
> The immune system has a lot to do with depression. One time I was so suicidal, and I took some advil for a headache, and it actually seemed that the suicidal thinking really subsided. I have heard other reports of indeviduals helped by antiinflamitories at certain stages of mental illness.
>
> LinkadgeInteresting. Do the antiinflammatory agents also act to modulate the immune system, or do they just take immediate inflammation? Or is there even a difference? Pardon my ignorance on this. :)
Emme
Posted by linkadge on August 9, 2004, at 8:23:46
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » linkadge, posted by Emme on August 9, 2004, at 6:17:26
It is proposed that some of the inflamitory cytokinnins like interleukin-1, and interleuken-6 and many others may be way out of wack in depression. The brain seems to be responsive to these inflammitory mediators. It is not uncommon for alpha-interferon used in cancer to cause disabling depression. Different antiinflamitory agents work to reduce veraious makrers of inflamation which are produced by an overactive immune system (Its complex and I don't really understant it myself)
Linkadge
Posted by Emme on August 9, 2004, at 15:18:13
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression, posted by linkadge on August 9, 2004, at 8:23:46
> It is proposed that some of the inflamitory cytokinnins like interleukin-1, and interleuken-6 and many others may be way out of wack in depression. The brain seems to be responsive to these inflammitory mediators. It is not uncommon for alpha-interferon used in cancer to cause disabling depression. Different antiinflamitory agents work to reduce veraious makrers of inflamation which are produced by an overactive immune system (Its complex and I don't really understant it myself)
>
>
>
> LinkadgeThanks. I'd pretty much gotten that basic info from what I've read, though you probably have a little better grasp on it than I do. I haven't seen anything as to whether any depressing effects from interferon might become self-sustaining after the interferon is stopped by making the immune system more or less permanently overactive. Kind of like flipping a toggle. (I'm not even sure if it's a really stupid hypothesis...) I'm going to see if there's anything on pubmed. Maybe Mr. Hoover can suggest additional alternative options that are immuno-modulating. Maybe I should get a headache and try a dose or two of baby aspirin? :)
Emme
Posted by SLS on August 9, 2004, at 20:43:25
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » linkadge, posted by Emme on August 9, 2004, at 15:18:13
Have you ever thought of using an antibiotic like minocycline or doxycycline? They have anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective, and possibly NMDA antagoinist properties.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9861045
- Scott
Posted by Emme on August 10, 2004, at 5:53:03
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression, posted by SLS on August 9, 2004, at 20:43:25
Interesting concept. I presume you mean like a 7 to 10 day course to jump start some improvement? I wonder if there are actually any psychiatrists who have tried it. I took doxycycline in Nov. for a throat infection. I can't recall if I felt any better on it. But then it was Thanksgiving and that kicks off a terrible time of year.
You're posting over on alternative. Are you considering some alternative ideas?
Emme
> Have you ever thought of using an antibiotic like minocycline or doxycycline? They have anti-inflammatory, neuroprotective, and possibly NMDA antagoinist properties.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9861045
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on August 10, 2004, at 7:14:16
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » SLS, posted by Emme on August 10, 2004, at 5:53:03
Hi Emme.
Regarding the use of doxycycline as a treatment for depression:
> Interesting concept. I presume you mean like a 7 to 10 day course to jump start some improvement?
No. Actually, you would want to take it for an extended period of time - months. If it is going to work, the improvements in depression sometimes come in waves on the way to remission. It is possible to feel a transient worsening before feeling an improvement. I am considering this treatment, but I can't decide whether or not to start it now or wait until I see what Cymbalta will do for me. I already have a prescription for doxycyline.
> I wonder if there are actually any psychiatrists who have tried it.
My doctor has used it with some success. I'm not really sure what his criteria are for choosing it for any given individual. He is big on treating Lyme disease and has an interest in the possible contributions of chronic inflammation processes to psychiatric syndromes. As disgusting as this is to contemplate, the number of microbes festering in your body outnumber your cells by a factor of 10.
> You're posting over on alternative. Are you considering some alternative ideas?
In the past, my experimentation with "supplementation" has been expensive and fruitless. However, I cannot logically exclude any alternative from consideration, and I try to keep an open mind. I can't help but to think my illness involves pathologies that are physiologically too severe an anomalous to be amenable to the alternatives discussed here. My doctor has recommended both inositol and omega-3 as things to try. I've got them, but haven't committed to a course of treatment at this point in time. I tried both separately a year ago without any improvement, but I don't think I gave either a fair chance as I didn't take them for more than a month or so. I'm sure they are healthy and otherwise benign, but... I don't know. Maybe after Cymbalta fails (I try to think this way so as not to become bitterly disappointed and perhaps suicidal should it really fail to work), I will consider revisiting some of these things. I've got quite a list of other things to try, though.
Thanks for your persistent concern about me. It feels nice. :-)
- Scott
Posted by Emme on August 10, 2004, at 15:19:58
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression, posted by SLS on August 10, 2004, at 7:14:16
Hi Scott,
> Regarding the use of doxycycline as a treatment for depression:
>
> > Interesting concept. I presume you mean like a 7 to 10 day course to jump start some improvement?
>
> No. Actually, you would want to take it for an extended period of time - months. If it is going to work, the improvements in depression sometimes come in waves on the way to remission. It is possible to feel a transient worsening before feeling an improvement. I am considering this treatment, but I can't decide whether or not to start it now or wait until I see what Cymbalta will do for me. I already have a prescription for doxycyline.Stock up on acidophilus! :) In general I have concerns about prolonged antibiotic use and generation of treatment resistant bacteria, both from a public health and from an individual point of view. However, in a serious situation such as yours, you need whatever will give you your life back and it would great if you got relief.
> > I wonder if there are actually any psychiatrists who have tried it.
>
> My doctor has used it with some success. I'm not really sure what his criteria are for choosing it for any given individual. He is big on treating Lyme disease and has an interest in the possible contributions of chronic inflammation processes to psychiatric syndromes.Very interesting. I'll put this on my list of things to ask my pdoc about. I wonder if measurements of IL-1 and IL-6 would provide an indication of whether an individual's psychiatric problems would benefit from antiinflammatory treatments.
> As disgusting as this is to contemplate, the number of microbes festering in your body outnumber your cells by a factor of 10.
Well, yeah, they do breed...and don't even think about the mites and bacteria riding around ON your body. :)
I heard someone once say that the main goal of a bacteriUM is to become bacteriA. But hey, as one of my professors once put it, bacteria are good company if you hang with the right ones.
> > You're posting over on alternative. Are you considering some alternative ideas?
>
> In the past, my experimentation with "supplementation" has been expensive and fruitless. However, I cannot logically exclude any alternative from consideration, and I try to keep an open mind. I can't help but to think my illness involves pathologies that are physiologically too severe an anomalous to be amenable to the alternatives discussed here.Do you have some specific ideas of anomalous etiologies? (You don't have to bother answering if you don't feel like it.)
> My doctor has recommended both inositol and omega-3 as things to try. I've got them, but haven't committed to a course of treatment at this point in time. I tried both separately a year ago without any improvement, but I don't think I gave either a fair chance as I didn't take them for more than a month or so. I'm sure they are healthy and otherwise benign, but... I don't know.
You know, I've been curious about inositol. I haven't tried it yet. 5HTP was bad. Tryptophan was okay but ho-hum. SJW didn't pan out. SAM-e is helpful in microdoses and I'm reserving that as something to go potentially back to. I'm thinking I may drag in an article or two to my doctor about inositol.
> Maybe after Cymbalta fails...I will consider revisiting some of these things. I've got quite a list of other things to try, though.
It sounds like you may be the first Cymbalta guinea pig on the board unless someone beats you to it. I admire your perseverence in generating options.
> Thanks for your persistent concern about me. It feels nice. :-)
You're welcome. You're always concerned about everyone else, no matter how bad you feel.
Emme
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 19:45:46
In reply to immune system/ depression, posted by Emme on August 8, 2004, at 16:41:00
> Hi All,
>
> I posted over on the med board to get thoughts on the inflammatory process and depression. I won't repeat the whole post here, but I'm wondering if it is possible for a low-dose interferon treatment I had years ago to have triggered an immune response that long outlasts the treatment and perpetuates mood problems.There is a theory that suggests that possibility. Because interferon induces changes in brain chemistry identical to those seen in depression, and both have similar response to antidepressive agents, it has been argued that the former is merely an artificial or iatrogenic form of the latter.
Your experience with interferon may have "primed" your body to be more vulnerable to depressive stressors at a later time.
> I am wondering what alternative treatments might be immunomodulating and help any inflammatory processes.
Interferon treatment induces tryptophan stress, by more than one mechanism. The effect is to create a systemic deficiency in serotonin. The obvious intervention would be tryptophan supplementation, but nicotinamide would also be a useful adjunct, as one pathway which contributes to the tryptophan deficit is the enhanced conversion of tryptophan to what eventually becomes NADH (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide).
> I know fish oil does this.
Yes, it does.
> I know SJW is supposed to as well, but I didn't do well with SJW.
>
> Thanks,
> EmmeYou might want to consider ginkgo biloba. It downregulates a number of genes which are implicated in inflammatory reactions.
Lar
Posted by Emme on August 17, 2004, at 16:36:55
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 19:45:46
Hi Lar,
Thanks for your response.
> There is a theory that suggests that possibility. Because interferon induces changes in brain chemistry identical to those seen in depression, and both have similar response to antidepressive agents, it has been argued that the former is merely an artificial or iatrogenic form of the latter.
Interesting.
> Your experience with interferon may have "primed" your body to be more vulnerable to depressive stressors at a later time.
Well, it wasn't exactly "later". I'd had anxiety and depression problems in the past, but hadn't had any treatment. At the time I had the interferon, I was trying to finish my dissertation. It seemd logical that the psychological burden of the medical treatment plus the dissertation would make me depressed and anxious. I slid into a clinical depression before the end of the interferon treatment, but no one linked it *directly* to the effects of the interferon. I wish someone had at least considered it.
I've long wondered if the interferon, as you said, "primed" my system and it's never been turned off. Would that be considered a form of kindling? No way to prove it of course - just a sneaking suspicion. Anyway, I clearly had the vulnerability plus plenty of external stressors.
Interestingly, I also had the mother of all anxiety attacks during the treatment - hit me violently one day and I had to be taken to student health center. I physically felt the effects for days. Again, we thought it was stress. I think it was the drug.
> Interferon treatment induces tryptophan stress, by more than one mechanism. The effect is to create a systemic deficiency in serotonin.
Well, I definitely had a great response to Paxil at that time. (Have become bipolarish since then)
> The obvious intervention would be tryptophan supplementation, but nicotinamide would also be a useful adjunct, as one pathway which contributes to the tryptophan deficit is the enhanced conversion of tryptophan to what eventually becomes NADH (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide).
I was underwhelmed by tryptophan, although I might consider another trial at some point. I haven't heard of nicotinamide. I'll read about it a bit.
> > I know fish oil does this.
>
> Yes, it does.I've got to get disciplined and take it again. sigh.
> You might want to consider ginkgo biloba. It downregulates a number of genes which are implicated in inflammatory reactions.
I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)
Thanks,
Emme
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 10:29:43
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on August 17, 2004, at 16:36:55
> Hi Lar,
>
> Thanks for your response.You're welcome.
> I've long wondered if the interferon, as you said, "primed" my system and it's never been turned off. Would that be considered a form of kindling? No way to prove it of course - just a sneaking suspicion. Anyway, I clearly had the vulnerability plus plenty of external stressors.
That's exactly what I meant, kindling.
> Interestingly, I also had the mother of all anxiety attacks during the treatment - hit me violently one day and I had to be taken to student health center. I physically felt the effects for days. Again, we thought it was stress. I think it was the drug.
If you didn't have a similar anxiety attack after the drug was withdrawn, then I'd agree with you 100%. In the early days of interferon treatment, attitudes were such that adverse effects were ignored or trivialized. Kind of like the early days of Prozac.
> > Interferon treatment induces tryptophan stress, by more than one mechanism. The effect is to create a systemic deficiency in serotonin.
>
> Well, I definitely had a great response to Paxil at that time. (Have become bipolarish since then)Bipolarish? Interesting "outside the DSM" conceptualization, going on here:
http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/02_diagnosis.html> > The obvious intervention would be tryptophan supplementation, but nicotinamide would also be a useful adjunct, as one pathway which contributes to the tryptophan deficit is the enhanced conversion of tryptophan to what eventually becomes NADH (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide).
>
> I was underwhelmed by tryptophan, although I might consider another trial at some point. I haven't heard of nicotinamide. I'll read about it a bit.The amide form of vitamin B3. Do not confuse it with niacin (or nicotinic acid).
> > > I know fish oil does this.
> >
> > Yes, it does.
>
> I've got to get disciplined and take it again. sigh.Or eat fish.
> > You might want to consider ginkgo biloba. It downregulates a number of genes which are implicated in inflammatory reactions.
>
> I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)It will make you smart, like me. No major interactions to worry about, except I think you need to notify the anaesthetist if you're having surgery.
> Thanks,
> Emme
>Welcome,
Lar
Posted by Emme on August 19, 2004, at 11:19:44
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 10:29:43
'Lo again.
> If you didn't have a similar anxiety attack after the drug was withdrawn, then I'd agree with you 100%. In the early days of interferon treatment, attitudes were such that adverse effects were ignored or trivialized. Kind of like the early days of Prozac.I'd had anxiety attacks in the past. But it had been a few years since I'd had one, and the one I had on interferon was horrendous. I didn't have more of them after the interferon. Although I wasn't sure at the time, ain't no doubt in my mind that it was the drug.
> Bipolarish? Interesting "outside the DSM" conceptualization, going on here:
Yes, I found that site helpful after my pdoc looked at me and said "...I think you're bipolar." The descriptions on that site describe a lot of me. Repeated AD poopouts. Sometimes my depression is sluggish/can't move, sometimes very anxious. Major sleep disturbances. Sometimes my nerves were utterly raw/bristly. My thoughts don't race sequentially in the way doctors ask. I've had times where a number of negative thoughts were swishing around in my head simultaneously competing with each other so that my mind felt chaotic rather than "fast" per se. One 4 -day definite hypomanic episode . I think a fair assessment would be mostly major depression with some bipolarity.
>> I haven't heard of nicotinamide. I'll read about it a bit.
>
> The amide form of vitamin B3. Do not confuse it with niacin (or nicotinic acid).Okay.
> > > > I know fish oil does this.
> Or eat fish.I've been a vegetarian for a long time. This is inconsistent with using fish oil I know, but desperate situations.... Fact is, I generally don't like fish. Most of it tastes *bad* to me. But I understand flax seed is a less efficient way to get omega-3.
> > > You might want to consider ginkgo biloba. It downregulates a number of genes which are implicated in inflammatory reactions.
> >
> > I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)
>
> It will make you smart, like me.Ooh, gettin' a big head now are we? :)
What dosage do you find helpful?Emme
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 10:12:59
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on August 19, 2004, at 11:19:44
> 'Lo again.
G'day, eh? That's Canadian.
> > If you didn't have a similar anxiety attack after the drug was withdrawn, then I'd agree with you 100%. In the early days of interferon treatment, attitudes were such that adverse effects were ignored or trivialized. Kind of like the early days of Prozac.
>
> I'd had anxiety attacks in the past. But it had been a few years since I'd had one, and the one I had on interferon was horrendous. I didn't have more of them after the interferon. Although I wasn't sure at the time, ain't no doubt in my mind that it was the drug.You're the expert on you. Don't let anyone take that away from you.
> > Bipolarish? Interesting "outside the DSM" conceptualization, going on here:
>
> Yes, I found that site helpful after my pdoc looked at me and said "...I think you're bipolar." The descriptions on that site describe a lot of me. Repeated AD poopouts. Sometimes my depression is sluggish/can't move, sometimes very anxious. Major sleep disturbances. Sometimes my nerves were utterly raw/bristly. My thoughts don't race sequentially in the way doctors ask. I've had times where a number of negative thoughts were swishing around in my head simultaneously competing with each other so that my mind felt chaotic rather than "fast" per se. One 4 -day definite hypomanic episode . I think a fair assessment would be mostly major depression with some bipolarity.I think the whole construct of mood disorders could do with a little less construct.
> > > > > I know fish oil does this.
> > Or eat fish.
>
> I've been a vegetarian for a long time. This is inconsistent with using fish oil I know, but desperate situations.... Fact is, I generally don't like fish. Most of it tastes *bad* to me.Maybe you're not getting fresh fish? Really fresh fish doesn't smell fishy, period. And there are some really mild white fish to consider (colour does correlate to flavour). Sauces and herbs/spices might help, too.
> But I understand flax seed is a less efficient way to get omega-3.
Yes, it is (less efficient). Do you do eggs? Eggs can be a substantial source of long-chain omega-3s, if the eggs are free range, or they have flaxseed-supplemented chow (you get the benefit of the chicken's pre-processing of the alpha-linolenic acid, and the tendency to concentrate EPA and DHA in the yolk). Unless you use the algae-based DHA supplement called Neuromins, I don't know a really effective way around the fish bit. I also have some reservations about the completeness of Neuromins, as it has no appreciable amounts of EPA.
> > > > You might want to consider ginkgo biloba. It downregulates a number of genes which are implicated in inflammatory reactions.
> > >
> > > I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)
> >
> > It will make you smart, like me.
>
> Ooh, gettin' a big head now are we? :)
> What dosage do you find helpful?
>
> EmmeGetting cheeky, is all.
100-200 mg per day, at 24% ginkolides.
Lar
Posted by Emme on August 24, 2004, at 7:26:48
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on August 22, 2004, at 10:12:59
> > 'Lo again.
>
> G'day, eh? That's Canadian.Well, I did spend a couple of months in Ontario once. :)
> > > Bipolarish? Interesting "outside the DSM" conceptualization, going on here:
> >
> > Yes, I found that site helpful after my pdoc looked at me and said "...I think you're bipolar." The descriptions on that site describe a lot of me. Repeated AD poopouts. Sometimes my depression is sluggish/can't move, sometimes very anxious. Major sleep disturbances. Sometimes my nerves were utterly raw/bristly. My thoughts don't race sequentially in the way doctors ask. I've had times where a number of negative thoughts were swishing around in my head simultaneously competing with each other so that my mind felt chaotic rather than "fast" per se. One 4 -day definite hypomanic episode . I think a fair assessment would be mostly major depression with some bipolarity.
>
> I think the whole construct of mood disorders could do with a little less construct.Agreed. I like the broad inclusiveness of the "bipolar spectrum" concept for that reason. Less "cubbyholing" (or at least looser cubbyholing) and more inclusion of a broad range of individual symptoms.
>> Fact is, I generally don't like fish. Most of it tastes *bad* to me.
>
> Maybe you're not getting fresh fish? Really fresh fish doesn't smell fishy, period. And there are some really mild white fish to consider (colour does correlate to flavour). Sauces and herbs/spices might help, too.I grew up on the coast where fresh fish was available. You'd think I'd like it. My mom's especially fond of the mild white fishes. I tolerated them as a kid b/c they were put in front of me, and were heavily breaded, seasoned, buttered, lemoned. The only things I've really liked are shrimp, swordfish and shark..
> > But I understand flax seed is a less efficient way to get omega-3.
>
> Yes, it is (less efficient). Do you do eggs? Eggs can be a substantial source of long-chain omega-3s, if the eggs are free range, or they have flaxseed-supplemented chow (you get the benefit of the chicken's pre-processing of the alpha-linolenic acid, and the tendency to concentrate EPA and DHA in the yolk).Yeah. I've started to see (and buy) the omega-3 rich eggs. I could probably go ahead and eat more of them instead of forgetting they're in my fridge until I bake. :)
> Unless you use the algae-based DHA supplement called Neuromins, I don't know a really effective way around the fish bit. I also have some reservations about the completeness of Neuromins, as it has no appreciable amounts of EPA.
Hm. I haven't heard of that.
> > > > > You might want to consider ginkgo biloba.
> > > > I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)
> > >
> > > It will make you smart, like me.
> Getting cheeky, is all.You're allowed.
> 100-200 mg per day, at 24% ginkolides.
Great. Thanks.
Emme
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 8:32:32
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on August 24, 2004, at 7:26:48
> > > 'Lo again.
> >
> > G'day, eh? That's Canadian.
>
> Well, I did spend a couple of months in Ontario once. :)Oh? Where? I've lived here my whole life.
> > I think the whole construct of mood disorders could do with a little less construct.
>
> Agreed. I like the broad inclusiveness of the "bipolar spectrum" concept for that reason. Less "cubbyholing" (or at least looser cubbyholing) and more inclusion of a broad range of individual symptoms.About a decade ago, a proposal to create six forms of bipolar, rather than the current two, seemed to make a whole lot of sense to me. One was "normally depressed, but induced mania from antidepressants". It just didn't get past the gatekeepers at the APA.
> >> Fact is, I generally don't like fish. Most of it tastes *bad* to me.
> >
> > Maybe you're not getting fresh fish? Really fresh fish doesn't smell fishy, period. And there are some really mild white fish to consider (colour does correlate to flavour). Sauces and herbs/spices might help, too.
>
> I grew up on the coast where fresh fish was available. You'd think I'd like it. My mom's especially fond of the mild white fishes.Unfortunately, those have the least omega-3 fats.
> I tolerated them as a kid b/c they were put in front of me, and were heavily breaded, seasoned, buttered, lemoned. The only things I've really liked are shrimp, swordfish and shark..
Of those, shrimp aren't half bad for you. The other two have high mercury content.
> > > But I understand flax seed is a less efficient way to get omega-3.
> >
> > Yes, it is (less efficient). Do you do eggs? Eggs can be a substantial source of long-chain omega-3s, if the eggs are free range, or they have flaxseed-supplemented chow (you get the benefit of the chicken's pre-processing of the alpha-linolenic acid, and the tendency to concentrate EPA and DHA in the yolk).
>
> Yeah. I've started to see (and buy) the omega-3 rich eggs. I could probably go ahead and eat more of them instead of forgetting they're in my fridge until I bake. :)All in due time. Just make yourself remember, eh? Hard-boil a few, for a snack, anytime?
> > Unless you use the algae-based DHA supplement called Neuromins, I don't know a really effective way around the fish bit. I also have some reservations about the completeness of Neuromins, as it has no appreciable amounts of EPA.
>
> Hm. I haven't heard of that.It's rather expensive, as I recall.
> > > > > > You might want to consider ginkgo biloba.
> > > > > I can try that. Are there any side effects or medication interactions to worry about? Will it make me very smart? :)
> > > >
> > > > It will make you smart, like me.
> > Getting cheeky, is all.
>
> You're allowed.Gee, thanks. ;-) Try and stop me, eh?
> > 100-200 mg per day, at 24% ginkolides.
>
> Great. Thanks.
>
> Emme
>You're welcome.
Lar
Posted by Emme on August 29, 2004, at 13:48:32
In reply to Re: immune system/ depression » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on August 28, 2004, at 8:32:32
> > Well, I did spend a couple of months in Ontario once. :)
>
> Oh? Where? I've lived here my whole life.I did field work (Geology) in southern Ontario along the east coast of Georgian Bay. We camped in one of the provincial parks near Parry Sound and spent a fair amount of time crawling around along the shoreline. I really enjoyed the area (once the black flies went away). The level of hospitality I found there bowled me over. A mechanic installed a new starter motor in my car for free b/c he saw that I was a student. People let us walk on their shorefront property and offered us sodas, water, beer. Park staff did everything they could for us.
> About a decade ago, a proposal to create six forms of bipolar, rather than the current two, seemed to make a whole lot of sense to me. One was "normally depressed, but induced mania from antidepressants". It just didn't get past the gatekeepers at the APA.
Seems like every science goes through phases of lumping vs. splitting. The traditional unipolar vs. bipolar 1 is clearly too narrow. It's a split that doesn't include a lot of people. I'm not sure yet if I'd prefer covering the bipolar spectrum with a series of categories, or with a single broadly inclusive "spectrum lump". I can see the utility in trying to lay out a series of variations to try to be as descriptive as possible. OTOH, in my field I sometimes find too many categories cumbersome. Just thinking out loud.
> > I tolerated them as a kid b/c they were put in front of me, and were heavily breaded, seasoned, buttered, lemoned. The only things I've really liked are shrimp, swordfish and shark..
>
> Of those, shrimp aren't half bad for you. The other two have high mercury content.As I understood it, swordfish and shark are okay once in a while, right?
> > Yeah. I've started to see (and buy) the omega-3 rich eggs. I could probably go ahead and eat more of them instead of forgetting they're in my fridge until I bake. :)
>
> All in due time. Just make yourself remember, eh? Hard-boil a few, for a snack, anytime?I've actually boiled water several times in the last few weeks. Amazing what happens when you start to function a little, eh?. So yes, egg boiling can happen now. :)
> > It will make you smart, like me.
> > > Getting cheeky, is all.
> >
> > You're allowed.
>
> Gee, thanks. ;-) Try and stop me, eh?Does that mean you're not feeling to bad these days? I hope so.
Emme
This is the end of the thread.
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