![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Emme on June 11, 2004, at 9:12:09
Hi All,
I'm curious about what kinds of differences anyone might have noticed between kinds of SJW. Specifically, do the brands high in hyperforin (e.g. Perika) feel different from the ordinary 0.3% hypericum-standardized formulations?
Has anyone got any sense of how these might compare to tincture?
Thanks,
Emme
Posted by Emme on June 11, 2004, at 9:28:05
In reply to Various forms of SJW, posted by Emme on June 11, 2004, at 9:12:09
would they be different in terms of being stimulating vs. calming?
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 12, 2004, at 17:13:10
In reply to Various forms of SJW, posted by Emme on June 11, 2004, at 9:12:09
> Hi All,
>
> I'm curious about what kinds of differences anyone might have noticed between kinds of SJW. Specifically, do the brands high in hyperforin (e.g. Perika) feel different from the ordinary 0.3% hypericum-standardized formulations?I'm going to presume that you meant 0.3% hypericin, not hypericum.
My personal experience was that Perika was too strong for me....it reminded me of an SSRI in many aspects. I am very med-sensitive, so I may not be a good model subject.
I prefer the "feel" of products standardized on hypericin, but it is hard to know what quality you're getting. The German products like Perika and Kira are standardized on both hypericin and hyperforin. That said, there are hundreds of chemicals in Hypericum (the plant), and you can't assume that each product will provide you with a similar distribution of those other, unstandardized, constituents. SJW extracts with all the hypericin and hyperforin removed still act as antidepressants. There's nothing at all wrong with taking two different products at the same time, so long as you match the total dose appropriately.
> Has anyone got any sense of how these might compare to tincture?
A tincture is a totally unknown and unknowable entity, unless it is standardized.
Some of the terminology of herbalism might be a little confusing, so bear with me for a minute. A decoction is made by boiling an herb in water. An infusion can be hot or cold, but it is made by pouring boiling or cold water over an herb. When you have a cup of tea, you're making an infusion. A tincture is like an infusion, but instead of water, it involves a different solvent, usually ethanol (drinking alcohol), but sometimes it is vinegar or glycerine. The thing is, you don't know how strong any of these products are without doing some really fancy tests.
When the companies are preparing Perika or Kira or any other standardized brand, they make a methanol or ethanol tincture, and boil it like for a decoction. They filter out the spent plant material, then dry off the solvent. Then they test the residue for active ingredients, and use those concentrations to prepare a standardized (concentration standardized) tablet or capsule or what have you. So, standardized products have tincture in their background, but work has been done to "calibrate" the dose.
> Thanks,
> EmmeYou're welcome.
Lar
Posted by Teknohead on June 12, 2004, at 19:54:34
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on June 12, 2004, at 17:13:10
As I mentioned in a previous response to your earlier post (1st June), I would go for Kira every time. Not only do I know it works, but it has a proven track record.
As for the effect, I find Kira stimulating. In some ways it feels similar to the effect I've had from lofepramine, a strongly noradrenergic tricyclic, but there is without doubt a strong dopamine effect with Kira SJW too. And it feels nothing like any SSRI either.
I've never trusted tinctures. The dosages always seem far too small, the dropper measurements never seem to add up and many of them aren't standardised.
SJW also seems unusaul in the way that the quality, and even the effect can vary so much from brand to brand.
At the end of the day, personal experience is the only way you'll know for sure.
Good luck!
Posted by Emme on June 14, 2004, at 15:29:26
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Emme, posted by Larry Hoover on June 12, 2004, at 17:13:10
You're back! Welcome! :)
> I'm going to presume that you meant 0.3% hypericin, not hypericum.
Doh! Yeah, thanks.
> My personal experience was that Perika was too strong for me....it reminded me of an SSRI in many aspects. I am very med-sensitive, so I may not be a good model subject.
I'm pretty sensitive also. So maybe you're not such a bad model subject.
Thanks for the notes on Herbal 101. Much appreciated.
I hope you're doing well.Emme
Posted by Emme on June 16, 2004, at 8:23:46
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Larry Hoover, posted by Emme on June 14, 2004, at 15:29:26
I'm having a really hard time swallowing the Perika tablets. Too big and the round shape makes it tough. This sounds stupid I know. I hate to ditch something based on something as silly as "swallowability". Maybe I'll chop them in half. How are the other brands you've tried?
Posted by Questionmark on June 16, 2004, at 8:54:32
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW, posted by Teknohead on June 12, 2004, at 19:54:34
> As I mentioned in a previous response to your earlier post (1st June), I would go for Kira every time. Not only do I know it works, but it has a proven track record.
>
> As for the effect, I find Kira stimulating. In some ways it feels similar to the effect I've had from lofepramine, a strongly noradrenergic tricyclic, but there is without doubt a strong dopamine effect with Kira SJW too. And it feels nothing like any SSRI either.
>
> I've never trusted tinctures. The dosages always seem far too small, the dropper measurements never seem to add up and many of them aren't standardised.
>
> SJW also seems unusaul in the way that the quality, and even the effect can vary so much from brand to brand.
>
> At the end of the day, personal experience is the only way you'll know for sure.
>
> Good luck!
i've taken a number of different brands of SJW at several different times, each time for at least 5 or 6 weeks, and i never noticed even the slightest change. But i have never taken Kira (or Perika) so your post highly interests me. How long were you taking Kira before you began to noticed a beneficial effect? What was your dose? 900mg/day?
Thank you.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 16, 2004, at 8:55:22
In reply to They're too darned big » Emme, posted by Emme on June 16, 2004, at 8:23:46
> I'm having a really hard time swallowing the Perika tablets. Too big and the round shape makes it tough. This sounds stupid I know. I hate to ditch something based on something as silly as "swallowability". Maybe I'll chop them in half. How are the other brands you've tried?
How in swallowability? Perika is the only one I've ever used that has that shape. All other brands were capsules.
It may sound weird, but I think I recall that some people swallow pills easier if they grease them, like covering them in a smear of butter. I dunno, though, 'cause I can swallow handfuls of pills at a go.
Lar
Posted by Teknohead on June 16, 2004, at 10:55:10
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Teknohead, posted by Questionmark on June 16, 2004, at 8:54:32
> > As I mentioned in a previous response to your earlier post (1st June), I would go for Kira every time. Not only do I know it works, but it has a proven track record.
> >
> > As for the effect, I find Kira stimulating. In some ways it feels similar to the effect I've had from lofepramine, a strongly noradrenergic tricyclic, but there is without doubt a strong dopamine effect with Kira SJW too. And it feels nothing like any SSRI either.
> >
> > I've never trusted tinctures. The dosages always seem far too small, the dropper measurements never seem to add up and many of them aren't standardised.
> >
> > SJW also seems unusaul in the way that the quality, and even the effect can vary so much from brand to brand.
> >
> > At the end of the day, personal experience is the only way you'll know for sure.
> >
> > Good luck!
>
>
> i've taken a number of different brands of SJW at several different times, each time for at least 5 or 6 weeks, and i never noticed even the slightest change. But i have never taken Kira (or Perika) so your post highly interests me. How long were you taking Kira before you began to noticed a beneficial effect? What was your dose? 900mg/day?
> Thank you.Hi Questionmark.
I must admit that when the Kira first worked for me, I was very surprised of the effect as it felt differnt to how most books had decribed it. And as for waiting 3 to 4 weeks? Never longer than 10 days for me!
I would always buy the One-a-Day Tablets. Each contains 300mg of gently dried SJW extract (called L160). This is standardised on 0.3% hypericin equal to 900mcg (microgrammes) hypericin per tablet. Now, even though this is a One-a-Day tablet, anyone who has read much about using standardised SJW would know that its normally 3 tablets of this strength PER DAY that is the recommended dose (total of 900mg of extract). This is why I previously mentioned how expensive it costs. But I beleive it was worth it, at least for me.
I live in England but the product details/labels may vary between countries so make sure you chack the pack for hypericin content.Now there's no guarantees it will work for you, but after trying many different brands myself with little success, then I think it's worth a go.
One last point, and an important one, I think. I no longer smoke, drink alcohol or caffeine. Since quitting, I've found ALL psych meds to have a much more powerfull effect on me, even making some meds that had little effect before, become very effective. I beleive each of these three substances can even cause mental illness, yet most people don't even think twice about them. And anyway, when a med, herbal or synthetic, finally kicks in, any need for a pick-me-up should virtually vanish into thin air. If not, get on a different med!
Posted by Questionmark on July 3, 2004, at 3:10:42
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Questionmark, posted by Teknohead on June 16, 2004, at 10:55:10
Posted by KaraS on July 3, 2004, at 20:25:05
In reply to Thanks. (nm) » Teknohead, posted by Questionmark on July 3, 2004, at 3:10:42
You should check out the following board (http://www.sjwinfo.org/). It's started out devoted soley to info on Saint John's Wort but now has expanded to include other supplements. There are lots of discussions about the various brands. I have learned a lot from there. The best brands these days - including Kira - are hyperforin standardized (as well as hypericin) as current thinking holds that the former is the more active constituent.
Posted by Teknohead on July 4, 2004, at 4:18:31
In reply to Re: Thanks., posted by KaraS on July 3, 2004, at 20:25:05
> You should check out the following board (http://www.sjwinfo.org/). It's started out devoted soley to info on Saint John's Wort but now has expanded to include other supplements. There are lots of discussions about the various brands. I have learned a lot from there. The best brands these days - including Kira - are hyperforin standardized (as well as hypericin) as current thinking holds that the former is the more active constituent.
>
>Hi there!
Just wanted to mention that, here in England, the last time I looked for a SJW product standardised on hyperforin (this was about a month ago mind), I couldn't find a single one. Even Kira was still only standardised on hypericin. Have we still not got the new stock or something!? Who knows.
See ya.
Posted by KaraS on July 4, 2004, at 7:53:44
In reply to Re: Thanks., posted by Teknohead on July 4, 2004, at 4:18:31
Really? That's interesting. How strange that the company makes their product different for different countries. Oh well, I'm sure it will still be a good product. Good luck with it!
Posted by barbaracat on July 7, 2004, at 14:27:52
In reply to Various forms of SJW, posted by Emme on June 11, 2004, at 9:12:09
Hi Emme,
I've recently done a bit of research on this subject before deciding to go on SJW. I was surprised at the differences in brands and effects. It's a real science and all SJW brands are definitely not the same.Perika and Kira are the pharmaceutical brands used in the German studies. The active extract is hyperforin, although some studies used hypericin only and got similar results. No one really knows how SJW works for sure, but at this point a brand with hyperforin standardized to 3-4% is what's being recommended. Hyperforin degrades pretty quickly, so a brand that has a stabilizer is recommended.
All hyperforin extracts are not the same, however. Like Larry Hoover, I found the Perika brand a little too activating, although many people with lethargic depressions swear by it.
The best one I've found at the best price is by HBC Protocols:
www.hbcstore.com
It uses a pharmaceutical grade hyperforin 4% extract made by Indena, which supplied the extract for the American studies that reported very favorable results. I also supplement it with Flora Oil Extract SJW which I get at www.iherb.com. The flowers are steeped in olive oil and then encapsulated. I want to cover all bases since no one is really sure what's going on with SJW and I want to get as much of the whole plant as possible while still getting a strong dose of the pharmaceutical agent. This applies to your extract question. My feeling is that it's OK to use a liquid extract to supplement, but not as the sole remedy. As Larry said, it's hard to standardize a liquid extract (like HerbPharm) and you don't know what or how much you're getting.
I take one HBC and one Flora twice a day. I've found this is working well for me. It took about 4 weeks to notice that it was definitely helping my mood. But I found out the hard way (yet again) that I also must take lithium in order to not spin into a BP-II state that's always lurking. - BarbCat
>
> I'm curious about what kinds of differences anyone might have noticed between kinds of SJW. Specifically, do the brands high in hyperforin (e.g. Perika) feel different from the ordinary 0.3% hypericum-standardized formulations?
>
> Has anyone got any sense of how these might compare to tincture?
>
> Thanks,
> Emme
Posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 16:12:21
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » Emme, posted by barbaracat on July 7, 2004, at 14:27:52
BarbaraCat,
I'm going to try Perika because of your advice here. I had previously tried Jarrow brand SJW but need something more stimulating. Thanks.
Kara
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 17, 2004, at 23:27:47
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW, posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 16:12:21
Kara,
I think the actual brand name is NatureMade. Perika is the pharmaceutical byline, as in NatureMade Perika St. John's Wort. A good place to get it inexpensively is www.iherb.com. You can just type Perika in the search box. If Perika doesn't do it for you, try HBC Protocols, which I prefer. At any rate, good luck, give it at least 4 weeks to reach peak, although you may start to feel it right away, and play around with the dose. 900mg is standard but some go higher. I'm at 1200mg. And if you're bipolar-II and aren't on a mood stabilizer, the amino acid L-taurine has been getting good press. I use it along with lithium and think it's helping. BarbaraCat
> I'm going to try Perika because of your advice here. I had previously tried Jarrow brand SJW but need something more stimulating. Thanks.
> Kara
Posted by KaraS on July 18, 2004, at 3:02:02
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 17, 2004, at 23:27:47
> Kara,
> I think the actual brand name is NatureMade. Perika is the pharmaceutical byline, as in NatureMade Perika St. John's Wort. A good place to get it inexpensively is www.iherb.com. You can just type Perika in the search box. If Perika doesn't do it for you, try HBC Protocols, which I prefer. At any rate, good luck, give it at least 4 weeks to reach peak, although you may start to feel it right away, and play around with the dose. 900mg is standard but some go higher. I'm at 1200mg. And if you're bipolar-II and aren't on a mood stabilizer, the amino acid L-taurine has been getting good press. I use it along with lithium and think it's helping. BarbaraCat
>
>
> > I'm going to try Perika because of your advice here. I had previously tried Jarrow brand SJW but need something more stimulating. Thanks.
> > Kara
>
>Thanks. I get almost all of my supplements from iHerb. They really are the best. I think I'll start with the NatureMade Perika because the HBC Protocols isn't as energizing (though the price is quite good). L-taurine is on my list of things to try as well. Take care,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 2:58:53
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 17, 2004, at 23:27:47
BarbaraCat,
How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
Kara
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 10:43:27
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat, posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 2:58:53
Kara,
I'm not aware of a need to take breaks from SJW, never heard of this and can't imagine any benefit, since building up to a steady-state is the goal. The literature says to give it from 4-6 weeks, just like any other AD. I've been on it for about 6 weeks. Started feeling a response after 4 days but it was uneven with good and bad days. Restarted lithium at 4 weeks and felt both kick in within 3 days.I know something is working because I had a major fibromyalgia flare over the weekend from helping a friend move. I had to spend a beautiful weekend in bed, and normally I would have been lying there with alot of anxiety and despair which usually accompanies it (as though the physical pain weren't bad enough). This time I took it in stride and was able to summons hope that things would get better. Had a few rough moments, but nothing like the misery I usually go through.
>
>
How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
>
> It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
>
> Kara
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 15:57:37
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 10:43:27
> Kara,
> I'm not aware of a need to take breaks from SJW, never heard of this and can't imagine any benefit, since building up to a steady-state is the goal. The literature says to give it from 4-6 weeks, just like any other AD. I've been on it for about 6 weeks. Started feeling a response after 4 days but it was uneven with good and bad days. Restarted lithium at 4 weeks and felt both kick in within 3 days.
>
> I know something is working because I had a major fibromyalgia flare over the weekend from helping a friend move. I had to spend a beautiful weekend in bed, and normally I would have been lying there with alot of anxiety and despair which usually accompanies it (as though the physical pain weren't bad enough). This time I took it in stride and was able to summons hope that things would get better. Had a few rough moments, but nothing like the misery I usually go through.
> >
> >
> How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
> >
> > It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
> >
> > Kara
>
>It's a general rule with herbs that you should take them for 4 months, stop for one month and then start again in order to prevent tolerance/poop-out. Maybe SJW is different. I'll do some research or maybe I'll just be lazy and ask Larry!
Thanks,
Kara
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 16:40:04
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 10:43:27
> Kara,
> I'm not aware of a need to take breaks from SJW, never heard of this and can't imagine any benefit, since building up to a steady-state is the goal. The literature says to give it from 4-6 weeks, just like any other AD. I've been on it for about 6 weeks. Started feeling a response after 4 days but it was uneven with good and bad days. Restarted lithium at 4 weeks and felt both kick in within 3 days.
>
> I know something is working because I had a major fibromyalgia flare over the weekend from helping a friend move. I had to spend a beautiful weekend in bed, and normally I would have been lying there with alot of anxiety and despair which usually accompanies it (as though the physical pain weren't bad enough). This time I took it in stride and was able to summons hope that things would get better. Had a few rough moments, but nothing like the misery I usually go through.
> >
> >
> How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
> >
> > It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
> >
> > Kara
>
>BCat,
I forgot to mention that I'm sorry you were in so much pain but glad that you are better able to deal with it now. Definitely sounds like the SJW has been good for you. Have you ever tried d-phenylalanine for the pain or would that be contraindicated with lithium or for bi-polar in general?K
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 19:55:08
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat, posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 15:57:37
The form you'll be getting in pharmaceutical SJW is a potent standardized extract that works similarly to antidepressants in that it increases uptake of neurotransmitters. The action is not similar to other herbal products, such as Echinacea's needing a break, or other immune modulators. I'd be interested in whatever you find out, but I'd be very surprised if a break is suggested. It seems like you'd have to build levels up again. Please let me know what you find out. - Barbara
> > Kara,
> > I'm not aware of a need to take breaks from SJW, never heard of this and can't imagine any benefit, since building up to a steady-state is the goal. The literature says to give it from 4-6 weeks, just like any other AD. I've been on it for about 6 weeks. Started feeling a response after 4 days but it was uneven with good and bad days. Restarted lithium at 4 weeks and felt both kick in within 3 days.
> >
> > I know something is working because I had a major fibromyalgia flare over the weekend from helping a friend move. I had to spend a beautiful weekend in bed, and normally I would have been lying there with alot of anxiety and despair which usually accompanies it (as though the physical pain weren't bad enough). This time I took it in stride and was able to summons hope that things would get better. Had a few rough moments, but nothing like the misery I usually go through.
> > >
> > >
> > How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
> > >
> > > It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
> > >
> > > Kara
> >
> >
>
> It's a general rule with herbs that you should take them for 4 months, stop for one month and then start again in order to prevent tolerance/poop-out. Maybe SJW is different. I'll do some research or maybe I'll just be lazy and ask Larry!
>
> Thanks,
> Kara
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 20:04:31
In reply to Also : Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat, posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 16:40:04
> BCat,
> I forgot to mention that I'm sorry you were in so much pain but glad that you are better able to deal with it now. Definitely sounds like the SJW has been good for you. Have you ever tried d-phenylalanine for the pain or would that be contraindicated with lithium or for bi-polar in general?
>
**Thanks, Kara. That really means alot. I've spent the last two beatiful days dragging about indoors, lugging laundry that feels like 2 tons, sleeping. Everything is extra hard at these times but I'm lucky I'm no longer working (a mixed blessing) and can give in to the 'vapors' when I need to. But it makes me feel like life is passing me by and is very isolating. There's nothing to do about it except be in the moment with it. Getting a kind word of support during these times means more than anyone can imagine.I've tried L-tyrosine and it defintely gives me a lift. But D-Phenyl intrigues me. I've tried the DL form and it was a little too buzzy, but I've heard that the D form is better for depression. What is your experience of it? - Barbara
>
>
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 21:09:29
In reply to Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 19:55:08
> The form you'll be getting in pharmaceutical SJW is a potent standardized extract that works similarly to antidepressants in that it increases uptake of neurotransmitters. The action is not similar to other herbal products, such as Echinacea's needing a break, or other immune modulators. I'd be interested in whatever you find out, but I'd be very surprised if a break is suggested. It seems like you'd have to build levels up again. Please let me know what you find out. - Barbara
>
>
> > > Kara,
> > > I'm not aware of a need to take breaks from SJW, never heard of this and can't imagine any benefit, since building up to a steady-state is the goal. The literature says to give it from 4-6 weeks, just like any other AD. I've been on it for about 6 weeks. Started feeling a response after 4 days but it was uneven with good and bad days. Restarted lithium at 4 weeks and felt both kick in within 3 days.
> > >
> > > I know something is working because I had a major fibromyalgia flare over the weekend from helping a friend move. I had to spend a beautiful weekend in bed, and normally I would have been lying there with alot of anxiety and despair which usually accompanies it (as though the physical pain weren't bad enough). This time I took it in stride and was able to summons hope that things would get better. Had a few rough moments, but nothing like the misery I usually go through.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > How long did you say you've been taking SJW? Are you planning or have you been taking a month-long break after 4 months of use?
> > > >
> > > > It just dawned on me that if one stops SJW for a month and then takes another month to get results again, then one would only have that AD coverage for 4 out of every 6 months. What can one do for those other 2 months?
> > > >
> > > > Kara
> > >
> > >
> >
> > It's a general rule with herbs that you should take them for 4 months, stop for one month and then start again in order to prevent tolerance/poop-out. Maybe SJW is different. I'll do some research or maybe I'll just be lazy and ask Larry!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kara
> >
>
>I've looked at quite a few sources and there's no mention at all of going off of it after 4 months and restarting. One passage stated that you can take it for as long as you like. So I think it's a nonissue. Sorry to have alarmed you unnecessarily!
I had recently started taking Rhodiola and I had read that you should take the 4 month break with that one so it was in my mind already. Rhodiola also effects neurotransmitter activity so I figured it would be the same with SJW. However, Rhodiola is also an herbal adaptogen so there are other considerations there. (That one source I read regarding Rhodiola could have been wrong as well.)
Anyway, I'm glad I'm wrong. I'd prefer the continuous coverage! (One more reason to try the Perika.)
- K
Posted by KaraS on July 19, 2004, at 21:20:24
In reply to Re: Also : Re: Various forms of SJW - BarbaraCat » KaraS, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 20:04:31
> > BCat,
> > I forgot to mention that I'm sorry you were in so much pain but glad that you are better able to deal with it now. Definitely sounds like the SJW has been good for you. Have you ever tried d-phenylalanine for the pain or would that be contraindicated with lithium or for bi-polar in general?
> >
> **Thanks, Kara. That really means alot. I've spent the last two beatiful days dragging about indoors, lugging laundry that feels like 2 tons, sleeping. Everything is extra hard at these times but I'm lucky I'm no longer working (a mixed blessing) and can give in to the 'vapors' when I need to. But it makes me feel like life is passing me by and is very isolating. There's nothing to do about it except be in the moment with it. Getting a kind word of support during these times means more than anyone can imagine.
>
> I've tried L-tyrosine and it defintely gives me a lift. But D-Phenyl intrigues me. I've tried the DL form and it was a little too buzzy, but I've heard that the D form is better for depression. What is your experience of it? - Barbara
> >
> >
>
>
I know that feeling of "life passing you by" all too well. All illness and especially depression can be very isolating. Fortunately we have this board. It's such a pleasure to interact with so many bright, interesting, empathetic good people. Makes you realize that we are not truly alone in what we're going through.L-tyrosine did nothing for me. DLPA gave me a little buzz but not much else. I need to try it at a higher dosage as well as in combination with selegiline. I haven't tried D-phenyl yet but have heard that it's good for depression as well as pain relief.
BTW, that was very generous of you to help your friend move given your fibromyalgia. I hope that friend appreciates you.
Kara
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