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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 225. Go back in thread:
Posted by sigismund on July 6, 2013, at 23:08:59
In reply to Re: Historical perspectives » Toph, posted by SLS on July 6, 2013, at 13:12:48
>I do remember being quite angry at Dr. Bob in the midst of his draconian enforcement of the rules governing civility. My anger emerged as I believed that this paradigm of moderation was responsible for a sharp decline in posting activity. I didn't collect statistics, though, so I don't know for certain that there was such a decline.
I recall that. But I think that was after many people left with all the acrimony. That was a later attempt. I think.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 15:47:52
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 6, 2013, at 12:12:38
> > one Refuge board, not all the boards being refuge boards.
>
> Then, no, absolutely not interested. That is a penalty or a punishment for preferring civility.
>
> 10derheart> Unless, like Room 2 of chat, the refuge board was considered the main board, and this was the place people were directed after registration, I wouldn't much care for the idea.
>
> DinahWhich board is the main board is in the eye of the beholder. I don't think people are directed to any one board after they register.
How much energy it takes me to battle posters' insistence gives me an idea of how much energy it takes them to battle Lou's insistence.
--
> It is ironic, but during your period of close moderation, people had very few fears of being hurt except for by the rigid sanctions administered by you.
>
> I can't believe you would open a new board dedicated to protect people from a single person
>
> Question: What kind of posting behavior would cause you to exercise a posting block?
>
> - Scott> A new board because he can't place the same limits that have essentially been here for years on one poster?
>
> Wouldn't Lou just avoid that new board? And how would that address the issue? I care a lot more about what he says to others than what he says to me
>
> 10derheartAll posters who cared about what was said to them could choose to join the new board. People who are posting here would be welcome, and others would be welcome, too.
The catch before, which would be the catch again, would be that to make it feel safe(r) for some people, there would need to be sanctions for other people. And my bet is that it wouldn't just be one person who would be sanctioned.
If there's interest in a refuge board, we'd need to discuss what in fact would be sanctioned. What's come up so far:
> what I used to sanction
> posting something that might scare other posters
> nasty free-for-alls--
> the idea ... makes me feel....like I'm being shuffled off to some padded room for annoying people
>
> 10derheartTo me, it sounds like a cushy room free from annoying people A refuge that helps people find strength. Like a nice massage can rejuvenate. I understand the appeal. Some people prefer the spa, others the gym, still others the spa one day, the gym the next. It's nice to have a choice.
--
> On the other hand, if Psychology should ever have life after death, I wouldn't mind at all for more strict rules on sensitivity to be applied there.
>
> DinahSo at this point I count 1 vote for a new Refuge board and 1 for making Psychology a refuge board. Anybody else interested in a refuge board?
--
> many others leave because we let them down.
>
> Toph> Psych is nearly dead, Social on life support...etc.
>
> 10derheartSome people, "old" as well as "new", may feel disappointed that Psych and Social aren't more active. Does it take that much energy to keep posting on Psych and Social? What's the problem?
Let's make a deal. If I invest time and energy to moderate Babble, will you all invest time and energy to keep the boards alive and supportive?
Bob
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:19:39
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 15:47:52
Why not make Psycho-Babble a refuge website?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:34:51
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:19:39
> Why not make Psycho-Babble a refuge website?
This might not consume that much time and energy if the moderator does not feel the need to read every post. He could rely, to a great degree, on poster notifications as the primary route to be alerted to possible uncivil behavior. He could then read the boards at his leisure to help maintain the integrity of the forums.
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 17:12:51
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:34:51
> This might not consume that much time and energy if the moderator does not feel the need to read every post. He could rely, to a great degree, on poster notifications as the primary route to be alerted to possible uncivil behavior. He could then read the boards at his leisure to help maintain the integrity of the forums.
1. That's what the moderator's been doing. And it seems some posters don't feel safe enough here.
2. The issue isn't the time and energy of the moderator. The moderator has been learning ways to cope and finding the time and energy to persevere.
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on July 7, 2013, at 17:18:53
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 17:12:51
Couldn't you be present but do something other than PBC and block people?
Posted by Twinleaf on July 7, 2013, at 17:43:38
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by alexandra_k on July 7, 2013, at 17:18:53
He has been doing that - he's been talking to us. There are just 2-3 PBCs.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 18:10:46
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 17:12:51
> > This might not consume that much time and energy if the moderator does not feel the need to read every post. He could rely, to a great degree, on poster notifications as the primary route to be alerted to possible uncivil behavior. He could then read the boards at his leisure to help maintain the integrity of the forums.
> 1. That's what the moderator's been doing. And it seems some posters don't feel safe enough here.1. They don't feel safe enough to notify you?
2. They don't feel safe because you don't act to moderate the the posting behaviors of people who submit posts that are explicitly uncivil, despite notifications?
> 2. The issue isn't the time and energy of the moderator. The moderator has been learning ways to cope and finding the time and energy to persevere.
1. I appreciate this.
2. I have to say, though, that you are making things much too difficult for yourself and the posting community. You can begin to relieve yourself of burden by strongly suggesting to <redacted> that he maintain civility in his posts under the auspices of the rules proscribing over-generalization and exaggeration. Other people have suggested additional proscriptions that are being violated by <redacted>. If the posting behaviors you enumerate are not modified by him, then you proceed to block him from posting. The same protocol should be used to moderate my posting and those of everyone else.
* Has it been strongly suggested to you that you not block people from posting?
Something about this whole situation seems odd to me. It is as if you were caught between a rock and a hard place.
Well, anyway... whatever.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2013, at 18:17:56
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 18:10:46
> Something about this whole situation seems odd to me. It is as if you were caught between a rock and a hard place.
>
> Well, anyway... whatever.
>
>
> - ScottMy guess is that he has a new theory and is reluctant to give it up. You know how he is about new ideas. They must be his way of coping and finding the energy to persevere.
Posted by Dinah on July 7, 2013, at 18:23:51
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 15:47:52
> How much energy it takes me to battle posters' insistence gives me an idea of how much energy it takes them to battle Lou's insistence.
I can't decide whether to be insulted or say "Well, I hope so!"
> So at this point I count 1 vote for a new Refuge board and 1 for making Psychology a refuge board. Anybody else interested in a refuge board?To be clear, I was just acknowledging that Meds board posters and Psych board posters have traditionally had different tolerance levels. And that instead of applying one setting for all, please be sensitives might be more appreciated on Psychology (as it was at least). While resented on some other boards.
> Let's make a deal. If I invest time and energy to moderate Babble, will you all invest time and energy to keep the boards alive and supportive?
>
> BobI'd have to see what form that time and energy took before I could agree to invest more here. My dissociation from the board has been hard won.
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2013, at 18:50:13
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dinah on July 7, 2013, at 18:23:51
Since someone who has posted a question about a medication on psychology. It was Policy wasn't it to redirect the question to the meds forum. Why does one person have to change babble. Phillipa
Posted by baseball55 on July 7, 2013, at 20:50:36
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2013, at 18:50:13
The last thing this forum needs is yet another board to split up posts and posters. Also, on reading this, it's pretty clear that the main (perhaps the only) problem on people's mind is Lou. I deal with Lou by never opening his posts and never opening any replies to his posts. I've done that since I first came here a few years ago. I realize new posters may get scared away, but anyone with experience on the internet knows there's always going to be someone with an ax to grind.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2013, at 21:41:14
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 17:12:51
I know psych is not a busy board, these days.
However, maybe because of the nature of the board, and who chooses to post there, I don't recall a lot of problems there.
Whatever.... I do think it's a board that needs a lower tolerance for crap.
Posted by Toph on July 8, 2013, at 8:40:18
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Dr. Bob on July 7, 2013, at 15:47:52
>
> Some people, "old" as well as "new", may feel disappointed that Psych and Social aren't more active. Does it take that much energy to keep posting on Psych and Social? What's the problem?
>
> Let's make a deal. If I invest time and energy to moderate Babble, will you all invest time and energy to keep the boards alive and supportive?
>
> BobWhat if Babble is less active for reasons other than it's design or the amount of time Bob spends here? What if participation is being siphoned off by dynamic outside interests such as Facebook, Twitter, Pintarest, Instagram, blogs and countless other sites? I know they don't offer mental health support, but it appears the cyber world is evolving faster than Babble.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2013, at 8:44:37
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Toph on July 8, 2013, at 8:40:18
> What if Babble is less active for reasons other than it's design or the amount of time Bob spends here? What if participation is being siphoned off by dynamic outside interests such as Facebook, Twitter, Pintarest, Instagram, blogs and countless other sites? I know they don't offer mental health support, but it appears the cyber world is evolving faster than Babble.
Good point.
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on July 8, 2013, at 20:14:37
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by SLS on July 8, 2013, at 8:44:37
I came to babble initially for the psych board. Then I was having problems with meds and found the med board. The psych board is less active than it used to be, but I don't recall any problems on the board -- hostility, arguments, etc. I think posters are mostly empathic there, since it hinges so much on our anguished relationships with therapists.. I'm not sure it needs more moderation, though it certainly needs more posters.
Posted by Phillipa on July 8, 2013, at 20:42:55
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Toph on July 8, 2013, at 8:40:18
My time if home is facebook and ebay. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 2:32:06
In reply to Re: a refuge(e) board, posted by Toph on July 8, 2013, at 8:40:18
> you are making things much too difficult for yourself and the posting community. You can begin to relieve yourself of burden by strongly suggesting to <redacted> that he maintain civility in his posts under the auspices of the rules proscribing over-generalization and exaggeration. Other people have suggested additional proscriptions that are being violated by <redacted>. If the posting behaviors you enumerate are not modified by him, then you proceed to block him from posting. The same protocol should be used to moderate my posting and those of everyone else.
>
> Something about this whole situation seems odd to me. It is as if you were caught between a rock and a hard place.
>
> - ScottAs far as what's too difficult for me, the old model was unsustainable and this model has (so far) been sustainable.
It's odd that I have power, but I'm not using it?
Think of it as a dialectic. Lou has taken the role of Rock. Some posters have taken the role of Hard Place. Do you ever find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place? What do you do then?
--
> What if Babble is less active for reasons other than it's design or the amount of time Bob spends here? What if participation is being siphoned off by dynamic outside interests such as Facebook, Twitter, Pintarest, Instagram, blogs and countless other sites? I know they don't offer mental health support, but it appears the cyber world is evolving faster than Babble.
>
> TophWhat if PB and FB are evolving in different directions?
Bob
Posted by SLS on July 9, 2013, at 5:33:39
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 2:32:06
> > you are making things much too difficult for yourself and the posting community. You can begin to relieve yourself of burden by strongly suggesting to <redacted> that he maintain civility in his posts under the auspices of the rules proscribing over-generalization and exaggeration. Other people have suggested additional proscriptions that are being violated by <redacted>. If the posting behaviors you enumerate are not modified by him, then you proceed to block him from posting. The same protocol should be used to moderate my posting and those of everyone else.
> >
> > Something about this whole situation seems odd to me. It is as if you were caught between a rock and a hard place.> As far as what's too difficult for me, the old model was unsustainable
Surely, the old model of enforcement was.
> and this model has (so far) been sustainable.
You do what you gotta do for yourself. The health of Psycho-Babble is dependent on the health of its benefactor and moderator, whether it be psychological or physical.
> It's odd that I have power, but I'm not using it?
It would be odd were you to feel that you don't have the power.
> Think of it as a dialectic. Lou has taken the role of Rock. Some posters have taken the role of Hard Place. Do you ever find yourself caught between a rock and a hard place?Not here. I have no one else to answer to. However, I find myself being frustrated, disappointed, and sad at times. These things are dissipating, though, as my interest in participating on Psycho-Babble wanes.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on July 9, 2013, at 8:01:44
In reply to Re: the big picture » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on July 9, 2013, at 5:33:39
> However, I find myself being frustrated, disappointed, and sad at times. These things are dissipating, though, as my interest in participating on Psycho-Babble wanes.
>
>
> - ScottIt would be a huge loss to Babble were you to lose interest in participating. But I do understand.
You have been so important to Babble for so long, but ultimately a poster's power is limited, and the responsibility for Babble really lies with those with the power.
Posted by Dinah on July 9, 2013, at 8:22:57
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 2:32:06
> It's odd that I have power, but I'm not using it?
But...
You are using it. You aren't using it in this circumstance but you are using it. Moreover, you're also spending time talking about double quotes and clarifying posts.
There has to be more than your simply choosing not to exercise your power. Do you disagree with the stance of "some posters"?
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 9:21:45
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dinah on July 9, 2013, at 8:22:57
> There has to be more than your simply choosing not to exercise your power. Do you disagree with the stance of "some posters"?
Do you ever find yourself between a rock and a hard place? What do you do then? Do you decide which you agree with?
Bob
Posted by SLS on July 9, 2013, at 11:09:33
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 9:21:45
> > There has to be more than your simply choosing not to exercise your power. Do you disagree with the stance of "some posters"?
> Do you ever find yourself between a rock and a hard place? What do you do then? Do you decide which you agree with?How much would you lose if you were to choose that which you agree with? How much would Psycho-Babble lose if you were to choose that which you disagree with?
Are posting blocks no longer available to you as a tool for moderation?
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on July 9, 2013, at 11:29:33
In reply to Re: the big picture, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 9:21:45
I'm afraid I don't see it as a rock and a hard place situation.
People have reported posts to you. You have done nothing about those posts. You seem to be saying you're doing nothing because you don't wish to spend time moderating. And yet you have been moderating, so that can't be the entire problem.
What you haven't said is something like "I don't think those posts are uncivil." Do you think the reported posts were in line with site rules? Are you going to amend the site guidelines about overgeneralizations, exaggerations, and accusations to fit the new reality?
Where is the rock and the hard place? One poster is posting a certain way, other posters have complained. You can either say you agree or don't agree with the posters who are complaining. Or you might say you agree and will post a warning.
Either way you have complaints, but I don't understand the rock and hard place simile as a cause of what you admit is a choice not to exercise your power.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 15:12:04
In reply to Re: the big picture » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on July 9, 2013, at 11:29:33
> I'm afraid I don't see it as a rock and a hard place situation.
OK, reasonable people can disagree. Do you ever find yourself between a rock and a hard place? What do you do then?
Bob
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