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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 384 to 408 of 412. Go back in thread:
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 14, 2006, at 21:59:14
In reply to Re: looking for trigger words, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 21:54:21
> I agree, a computer program could be, but if it suggests flagging based on words, then wouldn't it teach flagging based on words
In my opinion, the program would be teaching self-restraint. The word list is only there to cause the poster to pause and think about whether or not what they have written is a trigger.
> > I would suggest starting with a short list of trigger words and adding or modifying them as needed.
>
> If we did, which ones should we start with?
>
> BobI think we already came up with a pretty good word list when we listed trigger words/subjects several weeks ago.
MidnightBlue
Posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 16:34:37
In reply to Re: looking for trigger words » Dr. Bob, posted by MidnightBlue on June 14, 2006, at 21:59:14
because some people just don't get it
it's not okay to hurt children or to post LIGHTHEARTEDLY or any other way about it
it needs to be mandatory because some people don't seem able to voluntarily comply
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 16:40:23
In reply to MANDATORY triggers for child abuse triggers, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 16:34:37
> because some people just don't get it
>
> it's not okay to hurt children or to post LIGHTHEARTEDLY or any other way about it
>
> it needs to be mandatory because some people don't seem able to voluntarily complyI'm going to gently disagree.
It's not about willingness to comply. It's about grasping the significance of it.
Shaping people towards understanding should be the guiding principle. Not punishing those who can't yet see. Would you punish a dyslexic child for failing to read? A deaf child, for not hearing?
A missed trigger flag is a teaching opportunity. What would you like Dr. Bob to understand, that he apparently failed to grasp? What feeling would you like him to imagine?
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 21:37:26
In reply to MANDATORY triggers for child abuse triggers, posted by zazenduck on June 20, 2006, at 16:34:37
> > I agree, a computer program could be, but if it suggests flagging based on words, then wouldn't it teach flagging based on words
>
> In my opinion, the program would be teaching self-restraint.But self-restraint in what circumstances?
> > > I would suggest starting with a short list of trigger words and adding or modifying them as needed.
>
> I think we already came up with a pretty good word list when we listed trigger words/subjects several weeks ago.
>
> MidnightBlueThis list?
> violence
> suicide
> self-harm
> abusehttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/653706.html
--
> it needs to be mandatory because some people don't seem able to voluntarily comply
>
> zazenduckI think "mandatory" trigger warnings may sound like a good idea because it would be great if you could rely on triggering posts to be flagged. Like it would be if you could rely on all posts to be civil.
Bob
Posted by zazenduck on June 21, 2006, at 10:30:56
In reply to Re: looking for trigger words, posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 21:37:26
I withdraw my suggestion. My concern IS civility not triggers. I would like to have rules against posting humor involving violence against children such as throwing objects at childrens heads such as books or chairs or expressing approval for such actions. If there are such rules all ready (I thought there were) I would like them to be enforced equitably. Thanks
> >
> I think "mandatory" trigger warnings may sound like a good idea because it would be great if you could rely on triggering posts to be flagged. Like it would be if you could rely on all posts to be civil.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 12:45:09
In reply to Re: child abuse trigger, posted by zazenduck on June 21, 2006, at 10:30:56
> I would like to have rules against posting humor involving violence against children such as throwing objects at childrens heads such as books or chairs or expressing approval for such actions. If there are such rules all ready (I thought there were) I would like them to be enforced equitably.
It's already considered uncivil to treat injury or death lightly. Did I miss something? Sorry, I'm still behind...
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2006, at 15:52:21
In reply to Re: humor involving violence, posted by Dr. Bob on June 21, 2006, at 12:45:09
He's talking about my response to you under "Do I have to stop this car"
I didn't really think of it as violence, or triggering at the time I wrote it. I'm a victim (survivor) of much much worse, which is possibly why I didn't think this was bad..
Didn't Cheech & Chong have a routine????
But - I'd rather have a ruling on it than just let it hang, if it's all the same to you.
Posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 17:01:17
In reply to Re: humor involving violence » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2006, at 15:52:21
Hi Auntie Mel,
> He's talking about my response to you under "Do I have to stop this car"
>
> I didn't really think of it as violence, or triggering at the time I wrote it. I'm a victim (survivor) of much much worse, which is possibly why I didn't think this was bad..I’m sorry you’ve been victimised in the past. That shouldn’t happen to anyone.
I’m a victim/survivor too. And perhaps you’ve dealt with those issues more extensively or more effectively than I have. It’s still quite a difficult issue for me. And I tend to find it’s not the details of the story that distress me so much as the themes.
When I read the story, there seemed to be a definite theme of violence, humiliation and abuse of power in an institutional context where the victims dare not complain. It’s those themes that I find triggering rather than the exact details of the story.
I know that schoolchildren of previous decades had different expectations of the institutional environment, and that violence from teachers was often considered normal and permissible. But I am happy that school kids in most schools no longer expect routine violence in the classroom.
I’m not writing this to criticise you, but to explain why I found it hard to read. I don’t expect people to have to avoid certain subjects to protect me… I’m not saying you shouldn’t mention the events of your childhood. Of course I wouldn’t want to say anything like that. But in case you didn’t understand why it might be problematic I just wanted to explain my feelings about it. I hope that’s OK.
Best wishes,
Tamar
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2006, at 18:52:49
In reply to Re: humor involving violence » AuntieMel, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 17:01:17
Of course it's ok, Tamar.
I had no idea that that type of joshing around would bother anyone. It's stuff I've heard joked around about (in those type terms) a lot and I assumed everyone else had, too. I wouldn't have done it if I had known.
Thank you for telling me.
And BTW - all kidding aside I really don't believe in corporal punishment. Ask my kids. <smile> It doesn't work. Ask my father <bigger smile>
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2006, at 18:54:33
In reply to Re: humor involving violence » AuntieMel, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 17:01:17
I'm glad you told me it bothered you. If I'm not told, I'm not likely to change anything.
And and extra big thank you for the kind, adult way you informed me.
Posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 10:39:50
In reply to Re: humor involving violence » AuntieMel, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 17:01:17
Some times it takes a lot of different voices before people are willing listen. Thank you for being one of them! Thanks for being courageous enough to speak up.
Posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 11:09:18
In reply to Thanks Tamar :) » Tamar, posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 10:39:50
> Some times it takes a lot of different voices before people are willing listen. Thank you for being one of them! Thanks for being courageous enough to speak up.
>
people means whatever people it takes a lot of voices for not all people or any specific person just people to whom that statement applies in a civil and equitable manner with charity towards all and malice toward none..no offense intended to any nonRepublicans by quoting Lincoln or to other nationalities or to the indigenous peoples or refugees who have no homeland or other species or those who might believe differently i could of course be wrong in other words i feel whatever it is i feel
Posted by AuntieMel on June 23, 2006, at 11:16:09
In reply to Re: humor involving violence » AuntieMel, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2006, at 17:01:17
I have to admit, Tamar, that on thinking more about it, I still don't really 'get' why that particular post bothered you. Though I can really relate to sensitivity on the topic.
But, you know, it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that it *does* bother you.
I'll try really hard not to forget.
But sometimes I get a bad case of 'foot in mouth' so please, if I forget, give me another gentle smack, ok?
Peace??
Posted by Racer on June 23, 2006, at 13:47:01
In reply to civility scrupulosity addendum, posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 11:09:18
> > Some times it takes a lot of different voices before people are willing listen. Thank you for being one of them! Thanks for being courageous enough to speak up.
> >
> people means whatever people it takes a lot of voices for not all people or any specific person just people to whom that statement applies in a civil and equitable manner with charity towards all and malice toward none..no offense intended to any nonRepublicans by quoting Lincoln or to other nationalities or to the indigenous peoples or refugees who have no homeland or other species or those who might believe differently i could of course be wrong in other words i feel whatever it is i feel
>
>
>I'm afraid I don't understand. I have a lot of trouble understanding posts that don't contain much punctuation, just because my brain can't split things up into anything coherent when I read, without some help. That's one of the things about those lots of voices -- maybe sometimes, when it takes a lot of voices, it's because some of the auditors can't make out the words.
But I truly can't understand your point, and I want to. Any chance you could try again, for those of us who are apparently comprehension impaired?
Thanks.
Posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 16:49:21
In reply to Re: civility scrupulosity addendum » zazenduck, posted by Racer on June 23, 2006, at 13:47:01
I am a good person with good intentions. I assume other people are too. I have not posted anything uncivil intentionally. If Bob or his deputies chose to block me they will. It has nothing to do with my lack of civility. Same for the vast majority of other blocked people. Lots of voices are good! Free Lou Pilder! Free Estella! Free Gabbi! Free Larry! Free Bob! Freethink babblers!
That's my rephrase. Thanks for asking about my post.
> > > Some times it takes a lot of different voices before people are willing listen. Thank you for being one of them! Thanks for being courageous enough to speak up.
> > >
> > people means whatever people it takes a lot of voices for not all people or any specific person just people to whom that statement applies in a civil and equitable manner with charity towards all and malice toward none..no offense intended to any nonRepublicans by quoting Lincoln or to other nationalities or to the indigenous peoples or refugees who have no homeland or other species or those who might believe differently i could of course be wrong in other words i feel whatever it is i feel
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'm afraid I don't understand. I have a lot of trouble understanding posts that don't contain much punctuation, just because my brain can't split things up into anything coherent when I read, without some help. That's one of the things about those lots of voices -- maybe sometimes, when it takes a lot of voices, it's because some of the auditors can't make out the words.
>
> But I truly can't understand your point, and I want to. Any chance you could try again, for those of us who are apparently comprehension impaired?
>
> Thanks.
Posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 20:16:42
In reply to civility scrupulosity addendum, posted by zazenduck on June 23, 2006, at 11:09:18
Dr B's readability machine says so. And I'm in the eighteenth grade. And I AM kind...... of weird.
668 characters
117 words
3 sentences
1 paragraphs
1.61 syllables/word
39 words/sentence
31.31 Flesch Reading Ease
18.58 Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level
23.58 age level> > Some times it takes a lot of different voices before people are willing listen. Thank you for being one of them! Thanks for being courageous enough to speak up.
> >
> people means whatever people it takes a lot of voices for not all people or any specific person just people to whom that statement applies in a civil and equitable manner with charity towards all and malice toward none..no offense intended to any nonRepublicans by quoting Lincoln or to other nationalities or to the indigenous peoples or refugees who have no homeland or other species or those who might believe differently i could of course be wrong in other words i feel whatever it is i feel
>
>
>
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 26, 2006, at 0:17:59
In reply to Re: looking for trigger words, posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 21:37:26
Dr. Bob,
> > In my opinion, the program would be teaching self-restraint.
>
> But self-restraint in what circumstances?The self-restraint would come from the pause. If a trigger word is noted, the computer would not let you post without marking a box "yes" or "no" that the message did or did not contain a trigger.
It would give the poster time to THINK about whether or not their post could trigger someone. Somewhat in the same way you have the "confirm" button now. It would just be another layer for posts that contain trigger words. They could still be posted without a trigger warning, but would be subject to later review.
I thought I had already explained that, but I guess I didn't do a good enough job. :-)
>
> > > > I would suggest starting with a short list of trigger words and adding or modifying them as needed.
> >
> > I think we already came up with a pretty good word list when we listed trigger words/subjects several weeks ago.
> >
> > MidnightBlue
>
> This list?
>
> > violence
> > suicide
> > self-harm
> > abuseThat is part of the list, but I thought it was longer....
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/653706.html
>
> --
> I think "mandatory" trigger warnings may sound like a good idea because it would be great if you could rely on triggering posts to be flagged. Like it would be if you could rely on all posts to be civil.
>
> BobDr. Bob, it sounds like you are really leaning towards a workable program! Why don't you try us on the "honor" system I suggested, and if that doesn't work make it mandatory?
MidnightBlue
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2006, at 1:46:34
In reply to Re: looking for trigger words » Dr. Bob, posted by MidnightBlue on June 26, 2006, at 0:17:59
> Dr. Bob, it sounds like you are really leaning towards a workable program! Why don't you try us on the "honor" system I suggested, and if that doesn't work make it mandatory?
I'm trying! :-) I do think I'd prefer to start with it not being mandatory.
OK, here's another question, can anyone tell what font was used in the "new" indicators?
Bob
Posted by MidnightBlue on July 12, 2006, at 23:11:04
In reply to Re: looking for trigger font, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2006, at 1:46:34
Dr. Bob,
I hope you are still looking for that font and haven't given up on this idea! I'm sorry, but I'm not very computer savy so I can't help you!
MidnightBlue
> > Dr. Bob, it sounds like you are really leaning towards a workable program! Why don't you try us on the "honor" system I suggested, and if that doesn't work make it mandatory?
>
> I'm trying! :-) I do think I'd prefer to start with it not being mandatory.
>
> OK, here's another question, can anyone tell what font was used in the "new" indicators?
>
> Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2006, at 7:57:36
In reply to Re: looking for trigger font, posted by MidnightBlue on July 12, 2006, at 23:11:04
Posted by 10derHeart on July 13, 2006, at 11:46:55
In reply to Is it Garamond? (nm), posted by gardenergirl on July 13, 2006, at 7:57:36
Seems close, but actually, I don't think so.
Copy one of the "NEW" (yellow) icons and paste it into MS Word. It's an image, black text on a bright, yellow background, and you can grab a corner and stretch it to a large size. When I did this, the 'W' in particular is quite different from Garamond. The 'N', too, really.
It's one of what I think of as 'techno' fonts...made to look like the characters on some old, black and white (or green and white) PC screens from the 80's. Reminds me very much of many of the computer displays in the movie "War Games"
Yet I still can't find a font to match....don't know any easy way to search.
It's a mystery and I haven't got the patience to keep investigating. But ooo, do I love trying to figure out stuff like this (symptom of dorkiness? ;-))....that is, until my ADD-brain loses interest and suddenly doesn't love it any more!
Posted by Deneb on July 13, 2006, at 13:46:10
In reply to Re: looking for trigger font, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2006, at 1:46:34
Dr. Bob, it's difficult to tell what font it is because the text size is very small and the pixalation becomes an important factor.
I searched and searched and couldn't find an exact match, but I did come pretty close. When you shrink the font "Mangal" down, it looks sort of like the trigger font. I couldn't shrink it down to the trigger font, but I think if you did it might look more like the trigger font.
Dr. Bob, I don't think it matters whether or not the font is an exact match because the font is so small you can't tell anyways. I think a number of similar fonts would work too.
Posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 5:50:27
In reply to Re: Is it Garamond? » gardenergirl, posted by 10derHeart on July 13, 2006, at 11:46:55
The "new" indicators:
it's either FF OCR-F Regular or EF OCR-B Regularhttp://www.fonts.com/findfonts/detail.asp?pid=418541
http://www.fonts.com/findfonts/detail.asp?pid=404224
looks pretty close.
Pretty close to Andale mono too, except the W is a lil different.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 31, 2006, at 13:23:45
In reply to i think..., posted by cloudydaze on July 30, 2006, at 5:50:27
> Pretty close to Andale mono too, except the W is a lil different.
Let's go with Andale Mono, which I already have. And I'll just revise the "new" indicators so they'll match. :-) Thanks for your help,
Bob
Posted by Deneb on July 31, 2006, at 17:02:35
In reply to Re: looking for trigger font » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on July 13, 2006, at 13:46:10
:-(
Dr. Bob, you ignored me. :-(
What about my suggestion? I spent some time looking for it.
I looked and looked.
:-(
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