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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 82 to 106 of 125. Go back in thread:
Posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:10:00
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » alexandra_k, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 11:02:02
although... i don't know that i would feel much safer even if posters who were members were listed...
maybe... it is more about having a smaller group.
i don't know.
i give up.
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by alexandra_k on December 5, 2005, at 19:10:00
> although... i don't know that i would feel much safer even if posters who were members were listed...
>
> maybe... it is more about having a smaller group.
>
> i don't know.
>
> i give up.But it may still be small. It may bring lurkers out of the woodwork but it may not draw in that many regular posters. So It might be a collection of people who want more privacy who are posters as well as a few lurkers. Just a differnet group but not necessarilly huge.
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:27:54
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
that that still sets you up to have lurkers
a non googleable board??
Posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by rainbowbrite on December 5, 2005, at 19:24:05
Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board. I would classify myself in the 'lurker' category. I read quite a few posts but rarely reply, and I can count the number of conversational posts I have made on one hand. I occasionally post on the Writing board, but I wouldn't say that I really contribute to anything. Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.But I digress. The practical upshot of this piece of junk is that there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private. Short of imposing posting quotas, lurkers are a part of internet life.
The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
Posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
> Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board. I would classify myself in the 'lurker' category. I read quite a few posts but rarely reply, and I can count the number of conversational posts I have made on one hand. I occasionally post on the Writing board, but I wouldn't say that I really contribute to anything. Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.
Ha ha ha! That really made me laugh! Yeah, bloody mindedness could probably explain most of the things I do.
> But I digress. The practical upshot of this piece of junk is that there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private. Short of imposing posting quotas, lurkers are a part of internet life.
I think it’s easy to forget that. Perhaps the attraction of a non-googleable board is born of the occasional terror one might feel on suddenly realising that one’s mother-in-law could be reading.
Of course, it wouldn’t actually prevent mothers-in-law from reading. But it would feel safer. Just like wearing a seatbelt on an airplane feels safer. Yeah yeah, I know… turbulence…
> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
That’s very true. Until I did therapy I’d never felt inclined to search for private information about people, but I found my therapist’s home address and phone number on Google. I’m not actually stalking him, you understand. But it was very easy to find private information about him.
On the other hand, I think there’s a difference between information and ideas. Or at least, it feels that way to me. I’m a teacher and I don’t mind too much if my students find my telephone number (as long as they don’t pester me) but I wouldn’t want them to read what I’ve written here and connect it with me. However, I take the risk because I want to communicate with people here.
I have been very open here about my personal experiences and I suppose I could live with it if people I know were to read my posts. But there have been other things I’ve wanted to post about and I haven’t posted because I know that anyone could read it any time and I’d never know.
I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
Posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Shame, posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
>
> I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
>
>...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.
ClearSkies
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:49:37
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Tamar, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
> >
> > I don’t know if there’s a way around that. A members-only non-googleable board would provide a feeling of safety. But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
> >
> >
>
> ...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.
>
> ClearSkies
>
>right, but if there was an non-googleable (how the heck do you spell that anyway) board attched to googleable boards? I dont know
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:51:52
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
>
> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
>Huh? What? You mean there are lots of people reading the posts?! :-o
lol j/k
good point, I think my time on the internet is getting shorter and shorter
Posted by rainbowbrite on December 6, 2005, at 9:52:52
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Shame, posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 9:19:26
But maybe it could lull people into a false sense of security…
GOOD POINT!! Thank you for pointing it out!
Posted by Tamar on December 6, 2005, at 10:42:49
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Google » Tamar, posted by ClearSkies on December 6, 2005, at 9:37:27
>
> ...And how would have *any* of us found Babble in the first place if the posts had been unGoogleable? That's what got me here in the first place.Yeah... like Rainbowbrite I was assuming we were talking about part of the community being ungoogleable, rather than the whole thing.
I don't have a problem with our posts being Googleable. I choose what to write about myself, knowing that it can be seen by just about anybody.
But I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if there were one board (or a few boards) that felt more private. I'm pretty sure I'd feel more comfortable talking about some of the things I never post here.
On the other hand, as Shame points out, there is no real privacy on the internet...
Posted by alexandra_k on December 6, 2005, at 13:54:04
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Shame on December 6, 2005, at 7:12:50
> Lurkers usually make up a sizeable percentage of any given message board.
Yep. I think Dr Bob posted something a while back... I can't remember the exact figure but I think the estimate was that for every poster there were maybe 11 lurkers or something like that. Not sure how 'lurker' was defined. Someone who hasn't joined up as a member?
> Take this post for example. What am I saying here? No one knows. Why haven’t you stopped reading? Pure bloody mindedness perhaps.
LOL! Well I'm glad you decided to pipe up :-)
> there will be lurkers on any board, no matter how exclusive and how private.If only members can view the board...
Then only members can view the board.
And if there is a limit on the size of the board...
Then once the membership reaches the limit...
Nobody else would be able to view the board...> The only work that is being bandied about here that really confounds me is 'privacy'. What kind of expectations does everyone have? I wont bore anyone with geek-speak, but on the internet, 'privacy' is a relative term.
Yeah. It is a relative term.
I'd like to feel a bit safer...I guess...
To start with I was very careful...
Then over time I became less careful.
Kicking myself now rather...
But there is nothing I can do.
Need to get better at impulse control...
Or something.I don't know.
In two minds actually...
I love Babble
I find it really helpful to me to post about what is going on in my life...But I guess I need to realise that it is inappropriate to post a lot of the things I post.
Because...
It could do irrevokable damage IRL.I appreciate that non-googleable boards that are viewable only to members wouldn't be 100% secure.
I'm just looking at risk minimisation.But I guess...
It comes down to self control really
:-(
Posted by Jakeman on December 6, 2005, at 19:58:25
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle » Shame, posted by alexandra_k on December 6, 2005, at 13:54:04
I suspect that the typical user is not aware of the privacy ramifications of posting on sites such as this. I'd like to see, at the least, a prominent statement on the website maybe like: "Postings on this site are permanently archived on Goggle and other search engines and are visible to anyone who accesses the internet. These posts can be traced to your home internet address."
I think we are still in the early stages of the evolution of the internet. It's pretty much self-policeing now. Eventually the governent may step in, for better or worse.
Yes, isn't it interesting that it's so easy to find someone's address, phone number, and a map to their house. One search engine even gives you the person's age.
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2005, at 4:12:12
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Jakeman on December 6, 2005, at 19:58:25
> I'd like to see, at the least, a prominent statement on the website maybe like: "Postings on this site are permanently archived on Goggle and other search engines and are visible to anyone who accesses the internet. These posts can be traced to your home internet address."
It does say at the top of every main page:
> What you say may conceivably be used against you.
And next to every "submit your post" button is a link to:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#privacy
Which includes:
> What you post is public, as public as if you put it up on an old-fashioned bulletin board in a supermarket. Maybe even more so, since there aren't supermarket bulletin board search engines.
Regarding tracing posts, I don't think "anyone who accesses the Internet" can do that...
Bob
Posted by Shame on December 7, 2005, at 7:53:55
In reply to Re: privacy of this site and Goggle, posted by Dr. Bob on December 7, 2005, at 4:12:12
>
> Regarding tracing posts, I don't think "anyone who accesses the Internet" can do that...
>
> BobOnce again avoiding geek talk here, there are steps you can take to see what information you are giving away. www.grc.com is a pretty good site that will test your connection and let you know what you need to do to close any security holes. You want the "Shields Up!" section of his site. It is kind of up-and-down sometimes, so if its not up at the moment, try a bit later.
All in all though, getting detailed information about someone through message board postings is a genius-hacker type of activity, so I would say that your exposure here is extremely low.
Posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 18:24:08
In reply to small boards and privacy, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 19:26:19
Not something you wear on your face.
Just had to do that, just a smidgen OCD-ly yours,
ClearSkies
Posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 18:56:22
In reply to Google, posted by ClearSkies on December 7, 2005, at 18:24:08
> Not something you wear on your face.
> Just had to do that, just a smidgen OCD-ly yours,
> ClearSkiesI tried it already by changing the subject line but it just reverted. You can barely tell, unless you look closely. What can we do?
Tamar
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2005, at 19:51:42
In reply to Re: Google, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 18:56:22
Posted by 10derHeart on December 7, 2005, at 19:58:12
In reply to Re: Google, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 18:56:22
Posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 19:58:42
In reply to ? (nm) » Tamar, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2005, at 19:51:42
I just meant I changed it from Goggle to Google when I replied above, but somehow it ended up as Goggle again. I was just kidding really.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 0:34:00
In reply to Re: ? » Dinah, posted by Tamar on December 7, 2005, at 19:58:42
> somehow it ended up as Goggle again.
The default subject line is the subject line of the post being replied to, not the latest post in the thread...
Bob
Posted by Tamar on December 8, 2005, at 7:02:21
In reply to Re: ended up as Goggle, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2005, at 0:34:00
> > somehow it ended up as Goggle again.
>
> The default subject line is the subject line of the post being replied to, not the latest post in the thread...
>
> BobI knew that! I just felt defeated...
Posted by pseudoname on December 13, 2005, at 13:20:11
In reply to small boards and privacy, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 19:26:19
I don't know if this thread is still active, but I want to throw in my feelings. I think Tamar and ClearSkies are right about a members-only board possibly leading to a false sense of security.
I am *extremely* concerned about my own privacy and anonymity in posts here and everywhere, including the private boards I've posted to.
So for example
•my screen-names don't refer to my real name / nickname / location / school / job / interests / etc
•my posts don't mention my real name / nickname / location / school / job / ethnicity / etcIf I'm posting about potentially identifiable situations, I change irrelevant details the way that social science articles change details to protect subjects' privacy. A story about my cousin could become a story about "my relative" or "my friend" (if she is also a friend).
If I'm posting about a client, I might say "someone at work" or just "someone I know", when I think that gives enough context for others to comment on.
I also avoid using similar-sounding screen-names in different boards. Don't be "Bippo" here & at Yahoo; don't use different Disney names everywhere you post.
If someone is worried (like me) about malicious spies / neighbors / etc connecting posts back to her actual identity, can't she take steps like this, too? I would advise taking such steps whether a board is public or members-only. If it's in cyberspace at all, it must be considered insecure and potentially open to the WORLD. I agree that members-only access reduces the risk, but not nearly enough.
My only exposure is in disclosing my true •sex •marital status •age •Midwesternity(?) and •meds that I'm using. Because my meds are unusual, even these few facts may eventually be put together and traced back to me if I ever disclose my meds IRL.
But the only better privacy is not to post at all.
The other problem —of someone in your own residence / school / workplace sneaking into your computer files— won't be solved by a members-only board, of course. It can't be solved, period. That's why President Bush says he can't ever e-mail his daughters...
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 13, 2005, at 20:57:27
In reply to the best available online privacy, posted by pseudoname on December 13, 2005, at 13:20:11
Hey. What you say is correct. If you are worried about your privacy then you should take those steps to protect it.
The trouble (with me) is...
That I get into a space and let my guard down.
Alters... Though I can't blame them of course... But when I'm in a different space things get posted. Doesn't matter how much I regret them later, they are here indefinately for anyone with internet access to view. For anyone with access to my internet history to follow.
> But the only better privacy is not to post at all.
Well there are degrees of privacy. If you have to be a member to view then that would stop people following your internet history and reading your posts. That would be a greater degree of privacy. More private still would be posting from home so people are less able to access your internet history in order to be able to follow it. More private still would indeed be just to shut the f*ck up as you note.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet...
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 13, 2005, at 21:56:46
In reply to Re: the best available online privacy » pseudoname, posted by alexandra_k2 on December 13, 2005, at 20:57:27
okay.
so here goes...
i post from work because i don't have internet access at home. over here there simply isn't any free internet access except a limited amount in schools (where it is of course monitered by teachers). you are charged for your usage at the library and where i am you can only use the internet at the main library (to the best of my knowledge) which is a fair hike away. yeah, there are lots of internet cafe's but they charge by the hour and it is fairly expensive.so i post from work.
and what i have noticed...
is that every user login has a separate file. i only have access to the file that is associated with my login. i go in there and try to clear my cookies and there is this little document or whatever called 'index'. i can view it and what it seems to be... is a record of my entire history. every single link i've followed. i can view that but when i go to delete it it says 'you must have administrator access to modify / delete this document' or something along those lines.so...
people with administrator access (that probably means staff in the department who have some administrator priveledges associated with their login) and the wonderful people over at information technology support have access to my entire access history.
if they decided to follow the links...
well, there are pages and pages and pages and pages of babble links, of course. also... i do tend to follow the link to my new post. so a fair few of those links are to my posts. and yeah, because i've been stupid enough to post a lot of the things i've posted it is just oh so easy for them to figure out who i am. really wouldn't take them very long at all.and there it is.
i don't know whether all work situations do this...
i don't know whether all universities do this...but what i do know is that if people find out who i am then it gives them a bit of a predicament.
when they are requested to write me an anonymous referee report / reference and they are asked specificially 'do you know of anything that may affect the candidates ability to complete or whatever...' and 'do you have any reservations about the candidates ability to complete or whatever...' then i suppose they have a choice... they can keep their trap shut or they can be honest.
not a nice position to be in.
and yeah, it is my own fault, i appreciate that.
but how much safer would i feel in knowing that when they follow my access history they will be slapped with 'access denied'? a whole heap safer that is what. a whole heap safer.
Posted by alexandra_k2 on December 13, 2005, at 22:02:52
In reply to Re: that wasn't very clear..., posted by alexandra_k2 on December 13, 2005, at 21:56:46
and it is of course my own fault.
because of the things i've posted.
but the problem is that...
there isn't a single thing that i can do about that now.
there isn't anything i can do about what i've posted already.and so...
when i move i won't be accessing the boards.
because when i access the boards i leave a trail associating me with this site.
and because of what i have already posted
its just not safe for me to do that.
not even if i joined up with a different name
and kept my trap shut from this point on
it doesn't matter because when i access the boards i leave a trail associating me with this site.
and because of what i have already posted
its just not safe for me to do that.people from work know i post here.
i think...
they probably know who i am.
my supervisor has said a couple things which i think he would only have known from reading here.
he is a good person
i am pretty sure that he will keep it to himself
and that he doesn't regard me any differently because of it
but...
other people are not so understanding
and the risk is too great.most people...
i dare say most people wouldn't go out of their way
and i would have absolutely no way of knowing
except that...
i wouldn't find work
because of the anonomous referee reports / references
and i can't afford to take that risk.because of what i have already posted
that i can't do anything about.so.
here until the 24th i guess.
then my internet access is gone from this end.
and there it is.
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