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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 18:25:59
Please delete the threads:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050819/msgs/547069.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050819/msgs/547075.html
and
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050819/msgs/547318.html
They upset people a lot. I'm sorry.
Deneb
Posted by TofuEmmy on August 27, 2005, at 22:11:26
In reply to Dr. Bob, please delete the posts I made on social, posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 18:25:59
This is a repeat performance by this user. She has been conjoled, assisted, supported, mentored, buddied, and tutored. Nothing has stopped her behavior. IMO it's intentionally disruptive and provocative.
Only you can stop her and protect your posters.
Eagerly awaiting a block. Would you let GG do it?? I wanna be her first.
emmy
Posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 22:25:06
In reply to Dr. Bob - How about a block instead!, posted by TofuEmmy on August 27, 2005, at 22:11:26
> This is a repeat performance by this user. She has been conjoled, assisted, supported, mentored, buddied, and tutored. Nothing has stopped her behavior. IMO it's intentionally disruptive and provocative.
>
> Only you can stop her and protect your posters.
>
> Eagerly awaiting a block. Would you let GG do it?? I wanna be her first.
>
> emmyTofuEmmy
You really hurt me. I'm really very sorry. I'm not a troll. Remember how I promised you to never mention the bad web site? I kept my promise didn't I? I'm trying you know, I really am.
Dr. Bob, you can block me if you want to. I think I'll be very upset, but it is entirely my problem to deal with. I'll call the distress centre or something.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 22:37:52
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob - How about a block instead! » TofuEmmy, posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 22:25:06
I'm not a troll because I don't derive any pleasure from making others upset. It upsets me a great deal when I upset others. I do not know why I continue my behaviour, it is clearly maladaptive and it only ends up hurting me greatly...I guess it is part of my disorder. I'm not blaming my disorder, I may just be a horrible person I don't know.
I agree that sometimes I'm provocative, but I don't intend to harm others. The fact is, I'm not so good at interacting with others.
I'm very hurt that you seem to think I derive some sort of pleasure from upsetting people. I don't think real trolls get hurt so much.
I know I cannot tell you here just how distressed I am right now because it will only upset others.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on August 28, 2005, at 1:15:41
In reply to Dr. Bob - How about a block instead!, posted by TofuEmmy on August 27, 2005, at 22:11:26
I'm sorry TofuEmmy, I just can't handle this right now.
I'm sorry if I've upset you and others. I don't want to die yet, please understand.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 1:32:52
In reply to Dr. Bob, please delete the posts I made on social, posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 18:25:59
I'm not sure that Dr Bob deletes those kinds of posts. If they hang around then they serve as an example of what happens when people post that kind of stuff... Everybody gets the chance to learn by them and you live with the consequences of what you posted.
Thats just my take anyway...
Posted by messadivoce on August 28, 2005, at 2:48:09
In reply to Dr. Bob, please delete the posts I made on social, posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 18:25:59
Deneb, I don't think you're an evil person or anything. I think you're sweet, insightful and a valuable member of babble.
But here's the thing....I was offended by your posts as well. I'm not sure why you chose to express yourself like that. Are you looking for attention? Confirmation that people will like you even when you post disturbing material? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just hoping you'll ask yourself why you do it.
I think when I post, or when you post, or when 10derheart posts, or GG or sleepygirl or DaisyM or Dinah or ANYBODY posts, they should stop and consider:
1. Is this helpful to the community?
2. Does it build it up or tear it down?
3. Does it make light of serious/triggerish subjects, such as death or suicide?
Don't get me wrong. It's okay to post here in anger and frustration and despair. Lord knows I have. But it's all in how you DO it. As a writer, I always STOP and THINK and EDIT before I post my final post (this one has been through 4 revisions). Can I suggest you do such a thing as well, to keep from offending Babble members and avoid a block? I would hate to see that happen. :-(
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 4:11:53
In reply to Re: Why I'm not a troll » Deneb, posted by Deneb on August 27, 2005, at 22:37:52
I don't think you are a troll.
And I think you have improved because you thought to put trigger warnings on the posts :-)
I think the trouble with discussing death is that other people may respond negatively.
This might be worse if they feel like you are joking around about it.
Posted by JenStar on August 28, 2005, at 9:16:54
In reply to Re: Please don't post to me » TofuEmmy, posted by Deneb on August 28, 2005, at 1:15:41
Deneb, if you're going to dish it out, I think you should ensure that you can also take it! I don't think it's fair to post lots of extremely provocative things for all to read, then ask people not to post to you when they respond negatively to your provocative posts! That's my opinion, anyway.
To me, there's a clear trend here. You've done this before. The pattern is: You post regularly for a long time; your posts get morbid and start joking about death; your posts get more provocative; people respond negatively to your posts; you apologize with hpyerbole and ask people if they want you to die, imply that you'll die if you get more negative feedback or if you are asked to leave babble with a block, then often create your own DNP's to people who were upset with your posts. (You did it to me once!) Then after a while you seem to calm down and are REALLY back to normal, and your posts go back to normal, too. Then interacting with you is fun again. :)As a friend (who's currently kind of exasperated!), I'm asking you to think about this pattern. I understand that it's difficult to recognize the pattern once you're in it, but you do usually seem to recognize it once you're "back to yourself again."
Maybe it's just your cycle and there's nothing we can do except watch and hope that it will all end up OK. But I know that you're smart enough to know what works and doesn't work here on Babble. I don't think you're a troll AT ALL. But I DO sometimes wonder about why you post the things you do?
take care of yourself!
JenStar
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 9:27:58
In reply to Re: Why I'm not a troll » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 4:11:53
>I think the trouble with discussing death is that other people may respond negatively.
This might be worse if they feel like you are joking around about it.I think its in the context with which its discussed. For example if someone was to discuss cancer related death very light heartedly and it come across in a joking sense, then I cannot see how most people would respond postively.
Suicide is a form of death and it will more than often upset people here because that form of death is what is related to the biggest cause of death of mental illness. There is a time for jokes and light heartedness, its a very delicate subject to make of light here I think. Its confusing to know how serious the comments are...
Deneb speaks about not understanding or knowing why people would get upset. I can only think that if perhaps she was to read up on the effects suicide has on families or was to sit in on some kind of grief counsellering session where a familiy/friends was to discuss how they felt when someone close to them died of suicide, then she may gain the understanding to then realise and know how people would indeed get upset.
There was a post a while ago about how she would be very upset when a her pet dies, if I remember correctly. So I would imagine shes well aware of the seriousness of death, but chooses to take suicide less serious with her posts, whilst also knowing from previous experience(s) that it will upset people.
My memory usually serves me well, I do believe this isn't the first time deneb has spoke about suicide in a light hearted fashion only to then appologise and say it won't happen again.
Sometimes history does repeat itself, hopefully some lessons have been learnt and so that it will not keep recurring as prevention is better than cure so to speak.
Kind regardsNick
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:05:21
In reply to Re: Please don't post to me » Deneb, posted by JenStar on August 28, 2005, at 9:16:54
I've noticed at times that when things flare up with posts that people find upsetting/offensive or disruptive to others, is that Dr Bob or Dinah are no where to be found to intervene to act as moderators/admistrators and issue blocks or warnings.
Of course I understand and accept that both Dinah and Dr Bob do have lives out side of babble and can't be here 24 hours a day to over see things and stop them occuring to an uncomfortable level. At the same time aswell sometimes a person may post and 5 minutes later they are blocked or warned so this stops the situation escalating.
With the amount of posters here though and at the times when they're both not around is when things are most likely and do as history has shown get out of hand...and its good when the situations can be kept under control in their absence.
What could help is if there was more of a presence of admistrators/moderators for those times when they cannot both be here.
Just thought i'd post that administrative thought on my mind.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:08:05
In reply to One thing that could help on a separate issue...., posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:05:21
That said I now just saw a post by Dinah ~ hows that for timing!
Dr Bob will be here any minute I guess.. LOL
Whoops i'm talking to myself again :- /
Posted by Dinah on August 28, 2005, at 10:17:24
In reply to Re: One thing that could help on a separate issue...., posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:08:05
There was an apology by the time I got here last night, and other people seemed to be handling things appropriately in my opinion at least. People seem to be caring as well as upset. I figure it's a situation best handled by Dr. Bob as he sees fit.
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:33:35
In reply to Re: One thing that could help on a separate issue.... » Nickengland, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2005, at 10:17:24
I totally agree Dinah. I was kinda speaking on a separate note, not specifically about the threads last night but in general i've noticed it has happened once or twice before...However it does always get cleared up in the end though :-)
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by justyourlaugh on August 28, 2005, at 17:17:07
In reply to Re: One thing that could help on a separate issue.... » Dinah, posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 10:33:35
not a chance i want to post to deneb...
i do not want to play her games...
but she is all over a "social board"..
am i being uncivil?
she has hurt me more than a few times with her ignorance.."yes , ignorance"..not a feeling but a fact..
block me if you must ...i want her to "shut up"
shut up, shut up, shut up,!
she is pushing me over....
i am a poster with thoughts and feelings too...
i thought this was a safe place...
i am so...
how could you allow her to have that power?
dr..where is your common sense?
...
Posted by ClearSkies on August 28, 2005, at 18:06:42
In reply to Re: One thing that could help on a separate issue.... » Nickengland, posted by Dinah on August 28, 2005, at 10:17:24
> There was an apology by the time I got here last night, and other people seemed to be handling things appropriately in my opinion at least. People seem to be caring as well as upset. I figure it's a situation best handled by Dr. Bob as he sees fit.
Unacceptable behaviours followed repeatedly by apologies do not undo the upset that they cause, and I hope that Dr. Bob decides to take appropriate action.
It's one thing to act inappropriately and learn from it; it's another to think that if you apologize it's OK to do it over and over again.
CS
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:15:10
In reply to does it really? » Nickengland, posted by justyourlaugh on August 28, 2005, at 17:17:07
> how could you allow her to have that power?maybe thats something you want to ask yourself
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:19:51
In reply to Re: does it really? » justyourlaugh, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:15:10
it concerns me how quick babblers can be to turn on someone...
this is my perception and i hope i'm not being uncivil in saying so...
but...
lou
soostracised.
not by everyone.
but by a fair few.is that going to happen with deneb?
there has been an improvement.
trigger warnings.
they were hard enough to get - remember?
but she did.
she did.and thats good.
real good.as for joking about death...
that one can be hard to understand.
from both sides.there are sites out there that delete things that people might find upsetting.
some people prefer that i suppose.
i prefer not to feel babied.
i bet deneb feels pretty bad about now.
i understand that a lot of people are upset...
but my guess would be she is beating herself up far more than anybody here could.:-(
Posted by gardenergirl on August 28, 2005, at 18:20:04
In reply to does it really? » Nickengland, posted by justyourlaugh on August 28, 2005, at 17:17:07
Posted by justyourlaugh on August 28, 2005, at 18:33:51
In reply to Re: does it really? » justyourlaugh, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:15:10
please be civil while f*cking yourself...
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 18:56:43
In reply to does it really? » Nickengland, posted by justyourlaugh on August 28, 2005, at 17:17:07
Did you mean, does it really get cleared up in the end? (from the header in the Subject?)
When you're willing to let go of what has happened, then I personally find that is when you are willing to let it go. Its an individual thing.... or when the Doctor is back and has given the PBC's or blocks then I notice that posters (myself included) tend to move on to other subjects.
I know your upset, i'm just responding to the subject line in you're post, I felt the actual message wasn't directed at me although the message was with my name.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by 10derHeart on August 28, 2005, at 19:40:02
In reply to Re: does it really? » justyourlaugh, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:15:10
Posted by Gabbix2 on August 28, 2005, at 20:04:20
In reply to Re: does it really?, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:19:51
> it concerns me how quick babblers can be to turn on someone...
>
> this is my perception and i hope i'm not being uncivil in saying so...
>
It may not be civil, but it disturbed me too.
Enough to change my feelings about babble permanently.
Posted by Nickengland on August 28, 2005, at 20:07:05
In reply to Re: does it really?, posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 18:19:51
Hi Alexandra
>this is my perception and i hope i'm not being >uncivil in saying so...
>but...
I see what you're saying and I think its good to try and look at things from all angles. I do think though that in real life and this has some bearing on here too - People mirror people, in that when you meet someone or converse with someone who shows you lots of respect and happiness, you tend to mirror that right back to them. At least thats what i've found.
>lou
>so>ostracised.
>not by everyone.
>but by a fair few.In ways they were merely given the respect back that they gave to others, that might not seem right in an ideal world, but it happens on a regular basis and it can be hard to rise above that. I personally like to try and gain a deeper understanding of the particular posters you mention there, but at the same time realise that when they were posting messages in the nature that they were, it was obvious to me that they would not be spoken so highly of, for want of a better word.
People didn't go out of their way to ostracise, or criticise those posters, every action has a consequence and people were reacting to those particular actions, being the format of the nature of their posts which is why partly due to the fact they are not posting here today.
>Is that going to happen with deneb?
Only deneb and can answer that as she is in control of her actions which others will respond to. Good reputations are as easy to make as bad ones, and people can choose which direction they want to take.
>there has been an improvement.
>trigger warnings.
>they were hard enough to get - remember?
>but she did.
>she did.I don't think placing the word *trigger* counts though, as it doesn't give you the power to bend the rules so to speak and post things that you know will upset other posters. Improvement would be that suicide or death wasn't being taken so light heartly, but 4 months ago the same posts were happening and if their still happening today, I don't see improvement just because the word trigger is used, as the content is exactly the same.
I know where your coming from in your post Alexandra, and I think its admirable what you say in favour of deneb.
To keeps thing in context for myself, suicide ~ taking lightheartly, teehee'ing about suicide ~ which is death ~ which is a high pecentage of people with my particular illness and everyone elses here do die of and maybe feeling those thoughts when they read that message or knowing someone who has died of suicide.
>i bet deneb feels pretty bad about now.
That would mean that hopefully she now understands not to make light of suicide, lets hope it doesnt haopen again like it did 4 months ago.
>understand that a lot of people are upset...
For more than one particular reason too, with the nature of the posts.
>but my guess would be she is beating herself up far more than anybody here could.
She said she doesn't know why people would feel hurt that she is joking around discussing suicide, or words to that effect. The people here reminded of people they have lost in there life is alot more painful than what someone is feeling right now when they can't even understand the whole seriousness of suicide, or is she beating herself up because really she does understand it, but didnt quite get the reaction she was hoping for?
Whatever it was, I've read the posts and been reminded of a family member that died of suicide, I don't mind reading about suicide and i'm willing to discuss it and read posts about the subject.
I'm not too happy of the subject being laughed about though, no more than I would be of deaths from cancer, I don't find them amusing, deneb does, I be interested to know what she find amusing and how she doesnt understand why it is not serious.
Sorry to end with a negative note.
Kind regards
Nick
Posted by alexandra_k on August 28, 2005, at 20:10:42
In reply to Re: does it really? » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on August 28, 2005, at 20:04:20
(((Gabbi)))
It is a tricky one... I know the issue of scapegoating has come up before... Though it might be considered uncivil to say that that is what is happening when particular people are implied...
Yeah. I think my feelings about Babble have changed significantly too. (That happened a while back) Seeing how quick people are to turn sometimes. Just like RL. Just like RL :-(
I guess on the upside...
People do stick up for the 'underdog' too.
And that is good to see.And some people...
Are just having a bad day.But the potential...
The potential that people have...
It scaires the f*ck out of me
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