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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 65. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you delete in its entirty the post and its responses to 388469.
I belive that the poem has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings.
The poem has the potential to have the God of the ancient jews , since the poster does say that he/she thinks that the god in refference in the poem is the god in the old testament, that is still their God, to be portryed as ,[...a vengefull God...] and , [...a cantankerous, bearded patriarchal figure...] and that that God [...perhaps should be reevaluated as not-so-divine...].
Now I am a jew and I do not think that my God needs to be reevaluated as to be not-so-divine.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/388469.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/389675.html
Posted by Cass on September 11, 2004, at 14:44:43
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dear Lou,
I am very sorry if the poem I posted or my interpretation made you feel that your religion could be attacked. That was truly not my intention.
However, according to the rules of Dr. Bob's forum regarding harassment, I am asking you not to post to me anymore. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/389675.html
Posted by Cass on September 11, 2004, at 15:00:17
In reply to Re: Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388 » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 11, 2004, at 14:44:43
Dear Dr. Bob,
In giving an example of why I didn't want Lou to post to me anymore, I accidentally gave the wrong link. I meant to give this one: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/389603.html
If you want any clarification, please let me know.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 15:29:59
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr. Hsiung,
I have asked you to expunge the posts that are involved in the poem posted here in question. I am asking you to do that because I feel that it [has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings], not for any other reason including anyone's intent to do so.
The administration board is for reviewing requests like mine and I consider it my privilege and anyone else's to ask for posts to be reviewed and to request administrative action if necessarry. I have not asked here for admonishmernt to the poster, but only that the post be deleted, for I consider posts that have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings or anti- any- other- people feelings to be an unsound mental-health practice if they are allowed to be posted.
I have objected to your "do not post to me" policy at its conception because I believe that it can stigmatize a poster that it is posted about.
I feel that I have done nothing other than ask for clarification and asking for clarification is something that I feel is a very sound mental-health practice because it gives the poster that is being requested to clarify what is in their post an opportunity to enrichen the discussion and allow others to have more infomation in order to reply to their post with more infomation.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 16:01:53
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr. Hsiung,
Another reason that I am asking you to expunge the thread in question is that in the poem is written:
[...this is a time of war mongering and bitterness...]. I feel that there is the potential for others to connect [..the god of the old testament...that is vengefull and needs to reevaluated to be {...not-so-divine...}...] with the war in Israel now and I do not consider it a sound mental-health practice to allow that type of discussion to be fostered.
It is only me, at this time, that sees that, but it is plainly visible to me, and it may be because I am from a different background than the rest ofthe posters here, or may be not, that the potential is there to have this happen and that is why I feel that the thread be considered by the moderator as to its merits on a mental health board and if the moderator wants to allow the thread to continue.
If the potential for antisemitic feelings to be arroused is not there, could you explaine to me why not?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 16:43:21
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr.Hsiung,
Another reason that I am requesting the thread in question to be expunged is that in the poem it the author writes,[...a {cantankerous} bearded patriarchal figure to please, oh yes, {smite your enemies} might be antiquated...].
This has the potential to arrouse what is called "replacement theology",which people of my faith object to, where this doctrine states that the jews have been replaced by God and all the promises to the jews by god are taken away from them and are now going to others.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 17:37:54
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr.Hsiung,
Another reason that I am requesting that the thread in question be expunged is that in the poem the author writes,[...bogus Iraqi attack plan...].
I feel that this wordage has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings as well as anti American feelings. Those that know a depth of the history of the Iraq invasion of Kuwaite could, but not necessarrily, connect that part of the poem with Israel, for Saddam Huesien said that he connected Israel with some aspects of his invasion and directed missles at Israel and paid suicide bomber's families $25000 for killing jews. What I am talking about here is called "linkage" and I am afraid that there is a potential to connect Israel with the invasion of Iraq , that the poem describes as {bogus}.
If the thread is going to be allowed to continue, could you put a halt on any future posts in that thread untill I finish posting more about why I think that it is not appropriate on a mental-health forum?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 18:14:50
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Friends,
Below is a link that describes"linkage" in respect to this iscussion about Israel-Iraq-The United States
Lou
http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_30.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 11, 2004, at 19:28:12
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
> I am requesting that you delete in its entirty the post and its responses to 388469.
> I belive that the poem has the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings.I'm going to let it stand. IMO, it's not anti-Semitic.
Bob
Posted by Jai Narayan on September 11, 2004, at 19:47:52
In reply to Re: Lou's request, posted by Dr. Bob on September 11, 2004, at 19:28:12
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2004, at 16:45:58
In reply to Lou's request to Dr. Hsiung for expungment-388469, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:48:33
Dr. Hsiung,
Thank you for having this administrative board to give me the opportunity to respond to your decision to allow 388469 to stand.
I have asked you to review the poem and I have pointed out what [I see] as some lines in the poem that have the {potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings}. One poster writes that she/he interprets part of the poem to mean [... that the God of the old testament is a vengeful God and that the author of the poem wants us to reevaluate that figure as perhaps not-so-divine...]. That is the God that has revealed Himself to me and the God that has revealed Himself to the jews while in slavery in ancient Egypt and to all others that believe in that God. If the author is saying that that God needs to be reevaluated as perhaps not-so divine, then would that statement alone not have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings? There are other lines that mention things that have the potential to link Israel with this, such as [...realize for every ongoing war and religious outrage...and [...bogus Iraqi attack plan...]and, [...this is a time of war mongering and bitterness...],and[...the world needs your help...you can do something...].
Your decision wrote that it is your opinion that the poem is not antisemitic. But I am not saying that the poem is antisemitic, for I wrote that it was my concern that the poem [...has the potential to arrouse antisemitc feelings...].
Has not my request to have a determination to delete the post, based on the post [...having the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings...], been changed to as to if the post is in your opinion antisemitic? I feel that these two are not the same.
For something to be determined as antisemitic one would have to have some rational for making that determination, and that rational could be many different things. If you could post what your rational for your opinion , then I could have the opportuinty to respond accordingly.
Many people have written their rational for determining if something is antisemitic. I am asking that the following link by Dr. Martin Luther King be taken in consideration in considering a rational for determining if something is antisemitic.
Lou Pilder
http://www.christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/ml_king.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 8:42:25
In reply to Lou's respons to Dr. Hsiung's decision 388469LS » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2004, at 16:45:58
Dr. Hsiung,
I am asking you to address the poem in relation to your rule that involves a post being supportive.
I think that the statement in the poem , [...the God of the old testament ...is vengeful...needs to be reevaluated as {not-so-divine}...]could be considered [...{not supportive}...].
I am asking you to consider writing a line in the thread to indicate that that statement is not supportive on a mentasl-health forum. I am not asking you to expell the poster.
Also, another suggestion that I am asking you to consider is to delete only the lines in the poem that I think have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings, and if you delete just the line in question here, that could be suffitiant to quell anyone's ideas about the God of the jews being involved in the poem. But I feel that as long as the statement in the poem that the [...old testament God...needs to be reevaluated as not-so-divine...]is seen, that the jews could be thought as the ones that are being the one's involved in the other statements, so that if that line is removed, the potential for the poem to arrouse antisemitic feelings could be greatly removed.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 10:09:08
In reply to Lou's respons to Dr. Hsiung's decision 388469LS » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2004, at 16:45:58
Dr. Hsiung,
I am requesting that you consider to examine the poem and its responses an relation to your rule that states not to post things that could, [... put down those of other faiths...].
I feel that the line in the poem has the potential to {put down} those that have the god of the old testament, which includes the jews and others.
The poster has written that he/she interprets the line in the poem that uses,[...realize that the divine is not quite what you think it might be... cantankerous bearded patrarchal figure...might be a bit antiquated...] to mean that the author:[...wants to have the god of the old testament reevaluated as perhaps {not-so-divine...] and that he/she thought that it is ,[...pretty straightforward...].
I am asking you to consider posting a statement, either in the poem or in the response as to what the poster interptreted the poen to mean, to indicate that either one or the other , or both, [...puts down those of other faiths...].
I am not asking that the poster be sanctioned.
I feel that the statement by the poster has the potential to be considered as to violate your rule to not post things that [..put down those of other faiths...] because the poster sees in his/her interpretation that ,[...the old testament god perhaps needs to be reevaluated as {not-so-divine}...]. Now if the poster writes that they see it, then there is a person that writes that it can be seen and others could see it also. What can be seen is the part,according to the poster, that that god is: ,[...not so divine...]. Are you saying that that part does not put down those of the faith that have that god ?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 12:47:08
In reply to Lou's respons to Dr. Hsiung's decision 388469LS » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 12, 2004, at 16:45:58
Dr. Hsiung,
Another request that I waould like for you to consider is to place the "please rephrase" statement by the post that wrote,[...perhaps not-so-divine..].
I feel that the statement by the poster could be written differently. Could someone here write,[I think the author wants us to reevaluate that figure(Allah)as perhaps not-so-divine...]? Or, [... (Jesus} as perhaps not-that-divine...]? or, [...{Mary} as perhaps not that Divine...]?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Toph on September 13, 2004, at 16:24:11
In reply to Lou's respons to Dr. Hsiung's decision 38846PRP » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 12:47:08
I understand Dr. Bob's conclusion that the poem is not anti-semetic given that the religious references are sufficiently vague. However, what I find curious is that the poster placed this poem on the faith board and not on the writing board. If it was meant to be inspiring or reflect an individual's emotion's it could be afforded some artistic license on the writing board. Since it was posted on the faith board, I can see how it's religious assertions could be viewed as offensive to someone's faith.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 16:37:25
In reply to Re: Dr. Hsiung's decision 38846PRP, posted by Toph on September 13, 2004, at 16:24:11
Toph,
You wrote,[...I can see...religious assertions...offensive...].
Your observation that on the writng forum it could be acceptable but on another forum it could be,[...offensivee...,],leads me to think that if the whole thread was redirected to the writing board that that would be another possible solution to objections that I have concerning the poem in this discussion. I agree with you in your observation.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 17:28:59
In reply to Re: Dr. Hsiung's decision 38846PRP, posted by Toph on September 13, 2004, at 16:24:11
Toph,
You wrote,[...I can see how it's religious assertions could be viewed as offensive to someone's faith...].
The religious assertion in question ,to me, was spacific because the term [..God of the old testament...]was used. If only "God" was used, then it could be vague as to which faith is being talked about. But the God in this thread was identified as the God of the old testament.
But I am a jew, and the God of the old testament is my God that I worship and obey.
I did not state that the poem was antisemitic and was asking Dr. Hsiung to remove the thread because I felt that it had the {potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings} if it was left to continue. Your observation that some part of it could be offensive to someone's faith could include me because of what I consider to be a spacific referece to the God that I believe in and that is indicative too me that the potential could be there.
I asked for the moderator to see that aspect of my request for I do not consider the posts to be antisemitic and I understand that things can be posted innocently, and things can be posted by someone without any intent and that is why I was specifying that the poster was not to be admonished, but that the post should be removed. Your solution, to redirect it, is very understanding.
Thanks,
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:16:00
In reply to Lou's respons to Dr. Hsiung's decision 38846PRP » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 12:47:08
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
I offer this closing argument in hopes that there could be a jury that agrees with me, on this forum or in the heavens. I am asking you to hear and for the angels in heaven to hear. I am asking both to have an open mind and a clean concious and a pure heart and listen in an unpartial manner to look at the issues and facts, not the persons involved.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:28:32
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:16:00
Ladies and gentleman of the forum,
It is no honor to plead for my concerns. But there is a voice in me that is telling me to plead for the people of the old testament God, for I feel that He has been defamed. On behalf of my people,and behalf of my God, I want this opportunity to show that they are innocent of any acts that could possibly be attributed to them in the poem in question that could deem my God to have to be reevaluated as not-so-divine.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:40:12
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:28:32
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
I want to show the people here in this forum and the angels in heaven, and my God, that the offense is not for us to bear and carry on this forum, for we are innocent and our God does not have to be written publically that to be reevaluated as perhaps not-so-divine. I will show that there is an error in the poem and I am afriad that it will become irreversible if the decision is not reversed.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 21:08:55
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-3 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 20:40:12
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
This house is being built. It is being built on the faith of principles. Priciples of sound mental-health. And if the bricks that make up the house do not fit, then the house could be built distorted from that point on, for each brick now is not fitted correctly due to the misfitted brick. And the house could fall. And great could be the fall of it.
I am taking this opportunity to correct this misplaced brick in the House of Babble.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 22:03:22
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-5 (nm) » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 21:27:44
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
It is said that one should light a candle instead of cursing the darknesss. I am asking you members of the forum to light a candle of open-mindness and decide the issues for yourselves. I would like to take this opportunity to shed the light of reason here so that what I see can be seen by others.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2004, at 8:13:41
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-5 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 13, 2004, at 22:03:22
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
This is my last plea to correct an error that I see here. It is my great conviction that it is an error in justice that you can have the opportunity to to agree or to not agree. But the teachings of the Buddha in The Dhammapada said that [...he who dispenses justice in an arbitrary manner could never be considered one who abides by the law...]. It is the teaching of the Jesus of christiandom that [...blessed are those that do hunger and thirst after rightiousness, for they shall be filled...] It is the teaching of the God of the old testament that what is good is ,[...to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God...].
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2004, at 8:37:22
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-6 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2004, at 8:13:41
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
Why does this poster object to the poem in question? And who has believed anything that I have reported? There have been posts here by posters dispising me and rejecting me. I feel that if the poem is left on the board that others could believe that the forum endorses and wants my God to be [...reevaluated... as {not-so-divine}...]. And that causes me to feel that I have to whare a Badge of Shame. And what is there about this poem that needs to be revealed?
The poster of the poem writes that the author is unknown. Could this mean that the poster does not know who the author is or does it mean that there is no known author?
The author, my friends is not blowing in the wind. The author is Mark Morford.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2004, at 8:44:00
In reply to Lou's closing argument- Dr. Hsiung's decision-7 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2004, at 8:37:22
Ladies and gentlemen of the forum,
Mark Morford is an editorialist for the San francisco Gate. The following link has the poem and it is the second from the last entry if you scroll down to the end.
Mr. Morford has a political agenda that I will show to you and develop the logical conclusion to my closing argument.
Lou Pilder
http://www.freewillastrology.com/beauty/pagan.shtml
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