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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by zenhussy on August 18, 2003, at 23:44:51
In reply to Lou's reply to St. James post-, posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 23:17:25
> St. James,
> I do not generally visit the psycho babble board so i am not aware of the discussions you point out. But in any of those discussions, did Dr. Bob make a determination? If so, could you give me the URL?Lou,
There is a great search feature on this site as well as Dr. Bob's link to searching this site with Google. I'm sure that if you really, really were interested in past (ancient) discussions regarding the topic matters that stjames brings up then you could do a search instead of requesting others to do the leg work for you.
If this issue is so important to you then please bring a bit more than anti drug propaganda to the discussion.
> But what if there is a determination that allows posters to advocate testing smoking MJ to see if it does something for them? Are you saying that the determionation should be accepted? If there has been a determination to allow such, then I will attempt to have that changed by the venue of this administrative board to write my point of view about such,...
>>>>...for I feel...<<<<
Exactly. What *YOU* feel Lou. Your feelings are important here but your moral compass is not the one and only one so please refrain from trying to chart the course for the entire babblers based on your "feelings".
>...that this mental health board should abide by the rule that is given hear,ie; that this site should not be used to facilitate any illegal activity and the use of MJ in most jurisdictions is illegal.
> LouI believe this site provides information and with disclaimers regarding such information. People need to be informed consumers and human beings. Anyone coming to this site and switching their meds or going off a med or using an alternative med or supplement based on some other poster's account of pill 123 or substance abc is flat out foolish. Dr. Bob even has these words at the top of each part of the babble boards: Don't necessarily believe everything you hear. Your mileage may vary. The only posts I take responsibility for are my own.
Good luck Lou.
zenhussy
Posted by zenhussy on August 18, 2003, at 23:55:19
In reply to Lou's response to Shar's post-PT » shar, posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 23:42:37
> Shar,
> You wrote,[...we have no way of determining if they are obtiaining legally or an off topic...].
> I disagree with that conclusion for the only jurisdiction that I know of that has legal use of MJ is in Holland, and my daughter and her husband returned from there last year and told me about it. It is not that simple, even there. It is controlled in pubs, and amounts over personal use are illegal, as it was explained to me.
> It is my understanding that the posters advocating trying MJ do not reside in Holland. See a previous post in this thread with my answer to the medicinal question. People here are not saying that they were prescribed MJ for chemotherepy and such. On the contrary, they wrote that they should not get busted and if they were using MJ as a california chemotherpy or gloucoma victim, that was not written. Also, one of the posters has written that she is a London, England resident.
> Lou
>Lou,
Here are some links so that you can stop referring to medicinal cannabis as just being used for "glaucoma victims (and why would you ever refer to someone with glaucoma as a victim???) and chemotherapy patients.You need to be a bit more informed before tossing about such stale propaganda.
http://www.cannabisnews.com/information/
http://www.wamm.org/medicinalbenefits.htm
http://www.cannabismd.com/reports/
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/medicalm.htm
Happy reading.
zh
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 23:55:34
In reply to Pot, etc., posted by shar on August 18, 2003, at 23:24:37
Shar,
You wrote,[...there are some things that we can not monitor here because we do not have enough info...].
I disgree with your conclusion, for the use of MJ is illegal in almost all jurisdictions. I did not see antything written that the poster was a glocoma victum or taking chemotherypy in California as a reason that they used to smoke MJ. The infomation given was about the use of MJ with other psychotropic drugs.
You wrote,[...we don't know if a person talking about alchohol is of age...].
Alchohol; is not a controlled drug like MJ. But I would be interestded in seeing any of those posts in order to respond to them.
Lou
Posted by zenhussy on August 18, 2003, at 23:59:29
In reply to Lou's reply yo Shar's post-PT-AL, posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 23:55:34
But I would be interestded in seeing any of those posts in order to respond to them.
> LouLou,
Do a search then.
zh
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 0:21:22
In reply to Pot, etc., posted by shar on August 18, 2003, at 23:24:37
Shar,
You wrote,[...MJ helps many people and is used as a legal drug...].
MJ is an illegal drug. It is illegal because of what the effects of the drug have on people and society as a whole. In the history of the world, MJ goes way back. And the effects of the drug are well-documented. Some countries have skid-row type areas of people that use MJ. Hirerd killers used MJ before they killed. They used the form called hasheeshan. The word assasin comes from those people. The list of dibilitating effects of MJ use is well documented ijn the liturature. It is a hallucinogenic substance and distorts peoples' thinking. No amount of clubs that advocate the use of MJ will change that.
You wrote that it is used as a legal drug. Plese tell me what instances it is used for legally except for chemotherypy and gloucoma and I will respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 0:36:04
In reply to Pot, etc., posted by shar on August 18, 2003, at 23:24:37
Shar,
You wrote, [...what is written here is not a reccommendation in any way...].
I disagree with you on that point because our young people give creedance and credibility to any site that is moderated by a psychiatrist. The medical profession is upheld above all othe professions in the USA. If a teenager sees what a psychiatrist 's board is saying, they give it great importance due to the fact that doctors are held in the highest esteem here. So it is my contention that by allowing the posts in question to go unanswered, a teenager could have his/her decision to use MJ made very easy to him/her, regasrdless of any disclaimer about milage and who to belive.
And a a teacher in the public scools for many years, I have seen the ruined lives of those that used MJ.They were caught in school or out and expulsion was given to many. Many dropped out of school;, or did not continue their education. Many were later criminals. Several became murderers. They were students that I taught. Thjey were students that wanted to do what the heros did, the rock stars that used drugs. Robert Zimmerman did not know the caliber of disaster that his music would have.
Lou
Posted by shar on August 19, 2003, at 1:05:34
In reply to Lou's reply yo Shar's post-PT-AL, posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 23:55:34
Lou,
I suppose the bottom line is (as my therapist would say) "what is your goal?"Is it to make this site one in which discussion is confined to legal topics? So, we would not have people talk about anything that is grounds for involvement of the law?
As I previously stated, the PB forum is essentially for adults looking for solutions, or asking questions about medications and drugs. For it to be a reflection of reality, and the real lives of individuals, and therefore useful to individuals, there will be times when illegal drug use may be discussed. It's possible that someone might learn NOT to use an illegal substance with AD's, which might save their lives. What a dilemma if discussion of an illegal drug was not allowed, and someone died because of it.
However, we know that this place (admin) is one in which we can agree to disagree, in a civil (if not ever-so-charming) manner. And, on this one, I will accept that you believe in your opinion, and I have my own which is very different.
Shar
Posted by zenhussy on August 19, 2003, at 1:21:01
In reply to Lou's response to Shar's post-PT-, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 0:21:22
Plese tell me what instances it is used for legally except for chemotherypy and gloucoma and I will respond accordingly.
> Lou
>
Lou,http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20030808/msgs/252025.html
Read my above post and you will find links to medical usages of cannabis.
Just read instead of asking for others to supply information for you.
zh
Posted by shar on August 19, 2003, at 1:26:17
In reply to Lou's response to Shar's post-PT, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 0:36:04
> Shar,
> You wrote, [...what is written here is not a reccommendation in any way...].
> I disagree with you on that point because our young people give creedance and credibility to any site that is moderated by a psychiatrist. The medical profession is upheld above all othe professions in the USA. If a teenager sees what a psychiatrist 's board is saying, they give it great importance due to the fact that doctors are held in the highest esteem here. So it is my contention that by allowing the posts in question to go unanswered, a teenager could have his/her decision to use MJ made very easy to him/her, regasrdless of any disclaimer about milage and who to belive.........Lou, I honestly believe that young people pay much more attention to their peers and celebrities, than to their doctors or the medical establishment. And, that a web site such as this would NOT be the determining factor in whether a teen decided to use pot. Nor, would a teen be likely to pour through the myriad of non-pot-related posts in order to find one where someone says "will it hurt me if I use pot with my AD?" and then suddenly decide that "hey, man, now I'm gonna use pot!"
> And a a teacher in the public scools for many years, I have seen the ruined lives of those that used MJ.
.....I've not taught school to teens, but I've seen many teens through rehab, worked with some, and never found that a factor of their drug abuse was a medically oriented website. In fact, I think if many had had access to a website about mental health, ad's, medical issues, it could have had an excellent impact. However, the websites of interest were those that glorified and/or reified the use of pot or other drugs...which one could hardly say describes PB.
>Thjey were students that wanted to do what the heros did, the rock stars that used drugs.
..........I would agree with your statement above. Rock stars, movie stars, sports stars, friends, parents....but, not websites about mental health issues.
.......Your pain and empathy for these youngsters is obvious, and admirable, but IMO the change you would make in PB would not necessarily make a difference in the tortured lives of these youth.
Shar
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 6:18:35
In reply to Lou's request for a determination-MJ 2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on August 18, 2003, at 21:25:06
All I said was that I smoked marajuana. I never told anyone where they could get it, or that I would supply them.
Where I live a small amount of marajuana for personal use will not get your arrested or given any kind of record.
I believe I have not broken any rules, as I have not spoken ot where this drug could be obtained.
nikki
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 6:34:05
In reply to Re: Lou's request for a determination-MJ 2, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 6:18:35
Lou, you say that Alcohol isn;t a ocntrolled drug.
So.. why can it only be sold by those licensed to sell it?? Why is it illegal to sell it to those under age??
So.. if I were 19, and spoke here about drinking a bottle of vodka a day, how would you feel about that?? At 19 I am legal to buy that vodka in the UK.. but in the US I would not be. Would I be encouraging other 19 year olds in the US to go and buy vodka??Would you like me to email ALL posts that I may make in the future to you first, so that I can make sure they match your very high moral judgements??
Maybe tonight I will simply get drunk and go out and have a fight and have some uprotected sex.
Nikki
Posted by wendy b. on August 19, 2003, at 7:34:06
In reply to Lou's response to Shar's post-PT, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 0:36:04
>Robert Zimmerman did not know the caliber of disaster that his music would have.
The "caliber of disaster"? Lou, millions of people worldwide who honor and respect the man and love his music would ardently disagree. I know I do. Dylan doesn't condone neither does he condemn the use of illegal substances. His music is more complex than that. But I'm sure he'd probably disagree with how our government handles the regulation of pot. And, geeze, don't get mad or anything, but Friday night I'm off to see Dylan perform, and yes, a lot of people will be standing around smoking pot and enjoying themselves. Who cares?
Here are a few words from a song you might like:
"The neighborhood bully
been driven out of every land.
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered,
his people hounded and torn.
He's always on trial for just being born...
He's the neighborhood bully."(Bob Dylan, "Neighborhood Bully" from the album Jokerman)
Wendy
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 8:05:50
In reply to Re: Now it's Lou vs. Bob Dylan! what next?, posted by wendy b. on August 19, 2003, at 7:34:06
Wendy b.
The music of Bob Dylan is one of the most influential in history. It is the foundation for many, including Brian Jones with Mick Jagger and many others. The music initiated a culture to embrace marijuana and anti-establishment ideas. One of the songs that glorified MJ was;
"Evrybody must get stoned."
another was "Subterranian homesick blues"
Other artists used Bob Dylan's music such as Sonny and Sher in their magnificant version of
"I've Got You Babe".
But it was th eearly music that caught the British groups attention and the outgrowth was many songs that glorified the use of drugs. Remember Woodstock.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 8:37:37
In reply to Lou's reply to wendy b's post BD » wendy b., posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 8:05:50
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 8:39:57
In reply to Re: Lou's request for a determination-MJ 2, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 6:18:35
NikkiT2,
You wrote,"All I said was that I smoked marajuana."
But you also wrote that you did this on almost a daily basis.
Now regular use would requier obtaining the illegal drug through sorces . The psychiatric manual describes this behavior.
I believe that we all have an obligation to be the exemplar to our young people here, and I would like to see the moderator here, aka, Dr. Bob, make a determination about posters being allowed or not to post about their use of illegal drugs. whether the penalty for possession of small amounts is just a fine, does not change the illigality of the drug. and if people use an illegal drug on a regular basis, they would either have to go out each day and find someone to get the drug from, or have an amount handy that could last them many days or weeks or such. This could mean that the user would buy more than the amount that would be punishable by a fine, and could lead them to but ,perhaps, the amount that could land them in prison, even though they only smoked a small amount. This happened to a women that I went to high school with. She was at a party where MJ was being smoked and the police were called and they were all arrested. A small amount of cocain was found and they all recieved one year in the penitentery. The MJ charge was secondary, but they were still charged with such and got addittional time in prison. Now if the MJ was not going to be used at all, perhaps she would not have gone to prison for the cocain was there and she did not know of it, but the police didn't care about who knew and who didn't know.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 8:55:21
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 8:39:57
Hang on Lou.. Cocaine is NOT marajuana, its a very different drug, and no one anywhere mentioned they were using cocaine. You are just jumping to conclusions that people that smoke marajuana will also be taking cocaine. I no longer take nay drugs other marajuana, and I find your comment that the two are linked pretty offensive. Your friend went to prison for cocaine, NOT marajuana.
The general rule to work on, and this is what applies in Holland too, is 12 - 15 grams are what is considered for person use. I know I certainly do not smoke that much each day.
if you would like my home address details, my full name etc, so that you could inform my local police that i do this, please let me know, I would be happy to supply these details.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 9:16:56
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Shar's post-PT, posted by shar on August 19, 2003, at 1:26:17
Shar,
You wrote that you agreed with me about teens emulating heros.
In today's society, the psychiatrist is held in the highest esteem by our society with the exception of, perhaps, a veternarian. In our community, which is pet friendly, our vet. is held in the highest esteem . Now if the vet endorsed illegal drugs in any way, i think that the esteem given would deminish. I believe that a psychiatrist is also to be the exempler to the community and not allow the potential for others to think that illegal drugs are permitted to be used by mental health discusssants on a public internet forum.
The rule on this forum is that the site should not be allowed to be used to facilitate any illegal activities and smoking MJ is illegal in almost all jurisdictions.
The change that I am asking for here is that the moderator of the site, that is a psychiatrist, follow his own law in his code about not allowing the site to be used to facilitate illegal activities, which using MJ is in most cases. Who is anyone here that could say that if a teenager looks at these posts in question here, that they will not be influenced to use illegal drugs? I think that it would be better to not take that chance and admonish the posts that write about poster's illegal drug use.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 9:25:43
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 8:55:21
NikkiT2,
I did not write that I conclude that people that smoke MJ also use cocain. Plese do not make false accusations about me.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 9:28:40
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-c » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 9:25:43
I quote from your message
"Now if the MJ was not going to be used at all, perhaps she would not have gone to prison for the cocain was there "
To me, that reads like you were saying that if people did not take marajuana, they would not take cocaine. By this I understand that you feel marajuana use leads to cocaine use. In my understanding, you are blaming her going to prison for cocaine, on people smoking marajuana. Your friend went to prison for COCAINE, not marajuana. HUGE difference and I don't feel that it is osmehting that needed to be included in this discussion
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 9:46:32
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-c » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 9:28:40
NikkiT2,
To obtain an illegal drug, one must procure it from sorces that may have other illegal drugs also and the person trying to procure the drug does not always know what other illegal drugs the person they are trying to obtain MJ from also posesses. This is the trap that I was writing about.
I also know of cases where people trying to obtan MJ have been shot and killed because they found themselves in a shootout and were killed just because they were there.
The point is that if they were not trying to procure the MJ, then they would not have been caught in a shoot out. The same is the example with the party. If the person that I knew from High School was not involved with the use of MJ, then she would not have been caught in the trap where cocain was also found at the party. I did not write that she went to prison for the MJ. I wrote that she went to prison for the cocain and that the MJ charge carried additional punishment.
Another example that I know of is that a person bought MJ and smoked it and did not know that it was laced with LSD or some other powerfulll hallucinogenic drug. The woman became psychotic and lost her ability to continue her college work. so procuring an illegal drug could be very hazarrdous in ways not expected.
This is one of the reasons that I am asking the moderator here to not allow posters to describe their illegal drug use in any way.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 9:55:40
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-c2 » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 9:46:32
I know of cases where people have procured alcohol and have died because it has been spiked with other substances.
I know of a person shot dead for walking down the street and getting in the way of a shoot out.Life is not safe, where ever you may be. Smoking marajuana does not change this fact.
I, personally, don't approve of drinking alcohol to exess. But I don't preach that people should not talk about it, or even do it. Its up to them.
You put WAY too much on how resepcted psychiatrists are. the vast VAST majority of teenagers I know wouldn't know a psychiatrist if they slapped them round the face. They have no respect for them, as they know nothing about them. Like someone else said, its 90% peer pressure, and I doubt a simple answer to question on a board like this is really going to make them run out and buy marajuana and smoke it. How would someone know where to buy it unless their peers were already smoking it?? Its not liked its advertised!!
You seem to regularly get upset about posts on these boards, and I wonder why you continue to come back each time your ban is lifted??
nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 10:18:19
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-c2 » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 9:55:40
NikkiT2,
You wrote about teenagers that you know that have no respect for psychiatrists because they no nothing about them.
Now Britian is famous for thie medical journals such as the Lancet and the British Journal of Psychiatry. I have corrosponded with many British psychiatrists concerning a neurological phenominum that they are reserching. Are you saying that all the teenagers in Britian are unaware that there are prestigious psychiatrists in England? And why would they have no respect for them because they know nothing about them? If you could clarify this, then I could have a better understanding of your post.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 10:37:35
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-psy » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 10:18:19
People only tend to know much about Psychiatrists if they are involved in mental health, or suffer from mental health difficulties. or someone close to them does.
I mean what I said.. most teenagers know nothing about mental health, and so do not have any feelings about psychiatrists.
They don't read the Lancet etc as they have no exposure to it.. they have no reason to care.I'm nnot saying the UK doesnt have some eminent Psychiatrists, infcat I know a few of the best in the UK through my voluntary work, but the average teenager doesn't know of their existence.
Nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 10:41:03
In reply to Re: Lou's response to NikkiT2's post-SMJ-c2 » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 9:55:40
NikkiT2,
You wrote,"You put WAY too much on how respected psychiatrists are."
In the US, a psychiatrist is respected above football players and race-car drivers and rock musicians. Now if a teenager would be influenced by the football player, or the rock star, then would it not also be that the teenager could be influanced by what is allowed to be posted on a psychiatrist's mental health website?
This is one of the reasons that I am here. To give support and education to the readers of this site. And I give more value to support and education than to allow poster here to tell of their use of illegal drugs for I believe that illegal drugs have the potential to harm more than do any good to those that use them and I am seeking to change any existing policy here that allows posters to tell of their illegal drug use. This may get me expelled here, but I will take that chance, for at least those mothers that have teenage children and are looking to this site for support and education will see my point of view and perhps use it to make an informed decision.
I do not want you to give me your address and such to give to your police for this board is monitored and the moderator must turn over the names of those that they request if there is a law broken and they wish to prosecute. I do not know if the London police are out to arrest MJ users, but you should be aware that poster's real names can be gotten through discovery in a law suit or criminal case and that the site must give the names to the court in those cases.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 19, 2003, at 10:49:44
In reply to Lou's response to NikkiT2's post- RU, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2003, at 10:41:03
You oftne want to change many things about this site Lou.. I'm sure if Dr Bob thought there was a problem he would have pointed that out when the post was originally made.
I am not ashamed that I smoke pot, so if Dr Bob would like to pass my real name onto the authorites, he is free to do so.
nikki
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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