![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 30 to 54 of 61. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 17:57:12
In reply to Re: fund drive » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on November 25, 2001, at 10:49:32
> > Would you like to volunteer to be fund drive chair? If so, tell me what to do, and let's give it a try. :-)
>
> I would volunteer after the first of the year, as long as I have a co-chair who is is definitely more computer savvy than I am (which includes almost everyone), and can write HTML code, and develop pop up windows, etc.
>
> Would you do that stuff, Dr. Bob, or do I need to find someone to actually write the code?I think a co-chair is a great idea! If they know HTML, even better, but if not, I can try to do it. I'd need to incorporate it into the site, anyway...
> At the very least, you could raise the font size in that line from 9 or 10 to 12 and change the color, either to blue, or if you are feeling a bit more adventerous, dark violet. It's really not going to be annoying.
How about, um, green? :-)
> One idea would be to move the amazon rectangle over to the left, totally in tact minus only the donation line. Then create a smaller rectangular to the right with the heading Psychobabble Needs Your Help.and underneath in small but not tiny letters: "A donation may be made out to the University of Chicago " And a link which directly leads to your Support for Dr. Bob Page. If you put both the amazon box and your box on a light gray background, it will also be more noticable, but not tacky.
Sorry, I'm having a hard time visualizing your boxes... I did rearrange the current ones a little...
> why is the need for money presented in such an ambivilent manner on the support for Dr. Bob page: "but if you'd like to make a donation, I'm not going to turn it down, either. "
I changed the wording in the donation box a little. And on the support page, I made it: "But if you want to make a donation, that's great!" Better?
> I think it is here where you should be saying how important contributions are to the board...
Would you like to suggest some wording? Obviously, I need help with this...
> As far as the pledge drive, I do think life would be much easier if credit cards could be adopted as an option..
I agree, and I'm working on it...
> Once that is done, I like Mitchell's idea of a pop up window. I do find popup windowsa bit annoying, but it would only be for a week or so, AND the advantage, besides being noticable, is the basic site during non-drive times would not have to be touched.
It's a lot easier to modify the basic site than it used to be, thanks to some recent changes. But I agree, a week or so shouldn't be too bad. Plus there might be a way to program it not to pop up after someone's made a donation. :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 19:05:30
In reply to Perhaps one more idea, posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 15:06:13
> 1. If donations were part of the registration process, not part of the requirements,(an FYI) people would be aware with out being 'in your face all the time'.
If a charge is required, it would definitely need to be part of the registration process. But wouldn't people be more likely to make an optional donation after they've had some time to try out the site?
> 2. I think people would be more willing to contribute, if it were possible to do so in a way that didn't tie them to the PB/PBS board and being possibly 'found out' that it's a support site related to psychological/mental health issues.
>
> Maybe payable to Robert Hsiung, MD and in the memo part for online research and education?I see what you mean, but right now checks go to the university and in the memo part say "Internet work", so that's OK?
http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Bob
Posted by shelliR on November 25, 2001, at 19:37:44
In reply to Re: fund drive, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 17:57:12
I'm starting over because the other post got confusing to me. I will e-mail you at some point about what I meant about the squares, but yes, the
green is an improvement.I sincerely can't put any time into this now because I run a business and have to spend 90% of my time working until Christmas. So either we need need to find two
people who will work now, or wait until after christmas to get someone to help me That would give you a chance to get the credit card stuff in order, anyway.
This is what I don't understand about the contributions page:
You start by saying If you like my work -- and would like to support it -- then you've followed the right link!
This is a 100% volunteer effort. It's not part of my job description, I'm not paid to work on it, and the time that goes into it comes out of my "spare" time (ie, my
life).Okay, you do not get paid for your work on this web site.
Then you say , "This site is and always has been free (and free of advertisements). But if you'd like to make a donation, I'm not
going to turn it down, either."So here's where you ask for money.
I read this is as you spend all your time on this board and don't get paid for it, and you wouldn't mind getting a donation, or if you change it, (you'd be happy to accept a donation.)
How I understand this, is that you are not paid for this, so you will accept contributions to compensate for this. It sounds to me to say that donations will go
straight into your pocketfor your time. Is this true?Because the other way of presenting this is to talk about how much money it takes to organize and support a website. You are not compensated for any of these
expenses without donations, and so you are asking those who use the site, to help support the site.Then I would think that the donated money is going to the website, not persay directly into your pockets. It is going for web development, web support,
and the services that are provided by this site (all which you provide).Do you understand what I'm saying? Now if you are willing to take money both for the expenses of the site, *and* for your time in the site, I would still present it
the second way. I would not even talk about how YOU are not compensated for the work you do in your spare time, I would only say that the site needs money to
be able to provide its services and that is why you are asking for donations. Andthen go into how helpful the site is, how little it would cost to help donate, etc.
So I guess what I am saying is in my opinion, you need to rewrite the request for donation part in a completely different way.What do you think? I'm a little scared that I know what I mean, but I don't know really how to explain it.
Shelli
Posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 19:42:19
In reply to Re: Perhaps one more idea, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 19:05:30
> > 1. If donations were part of the registration process, not part of the requirements,(an FYI) people would be aware with out being 'in your face all the time'.
>
> If a charge is required, it would definitely need to be part of the registration process. But wouldn't people be more likely to make an optional donation after they've had some time to try out the site?
Yes, but what I meant was just information somewhere in the registration process-letting them know donations are welcome, but not required to browse, post, or whatever.> > 2. I think people would be more willing to contribute, if it were possible to do so in a way that didn't tie them to the PB/PBS board and being possibly 'found out' that it's a support site related to psychological/mental health issues.
> >
> > Maybe payable to Robert Hsiung, MD and in the memo part for online research and education?
>
> I see what you mean, but right now checks go to the university and in the memo part say "Internet work", so that's OK?
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Yeah that's fine, I certainly don't have a problem with it :-) I just think it's a little difficult to find/access, unless you know where to look.
> Bob
Kiddo-PS..how did you become DrdashBob?
Posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 21:05:58
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 20, 2001, at 19:16:11
There was a pretty lengthy discussion on this topic here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20001124/msgs/619.html
Personally, I think using popup windows/ads are a bad idea. They are irritating, a lot of people use ad blocking software, and I think would discredit your site to a certain degree.
I looked at your stats, and you have a lot of hits each month, how much space does your traffric generate? I noticed that it was 300.00 a month then, and it's the same amount now and you freed some space. Is that correct?
I know you do Grand Rounds-do you have medical students that do rotation under your supervision? If so, maybe you could enlist them (for extra credit, part of their grade, etc.) to post responses and have them registered as a med student, so it wouldn't be confusing. Perhaps another view or whatever...
> > can tou afford this? i remember reading that you get some insane number of hits daily...i've no idea how much how it costs to maintain a website...
>
> I can afford it, but it would be nice if it were self-sufficient. It costs $300 per month (for 800 MB; we were over 900 for a while, but I came up with a way to save some space -- 300 MB! -- so we're back under again).
>
> > why do you do this? why do *you* run this site?
>
> Selfish altruism? :-)
>
> > maybe one of these days i'll spend my weekely drinking money on a donation for the site.
>
> Hmm, interesting idea, and people who gave up smoking could donate *that* money...
>
> > > > what if you chose from a pool of professionals who were willing to do the service for no charge? or do you feel that would hurt the integrity of PB?
> >
> > what pool of professionals? whatever colleagues you could get your hand on. i would imagine that there are some professionals who would be delighted to help out the commonfolk for no charge
>
> I let colleagues know about it, but I don't try to twist anyone's arm. If they come, they come. And there *are* some professionals here, you know...
>
> > i dunno, i feel like the best information i've gotten is from the other posters...
>
> That came up when I asked about who people trusted. Which, BTW, I've since added to the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#trust
>
> > and i know this has probably been brought up before but have you thought about advertisements? totally tacky,yes, but with all the hits you get and devoted babblers...
>
> Online advertising isn't what it used to be, and who wants a tacky site, anyway? :-)
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 21:25:17
In reply to Re: fund drive » Dr. Bob, posted by shelliR on November 25, 2001, at 19:37:44
> I will e-mail you at some point about what I meant about the squares, but yes, the green is an improvement.
OK, one step forward, at least. :-)
> I sincerely can't put any time into this now because I run a business and have to spend 90% of my time working until Christmas.
I understand, no problem, this can wait, don't stress out about it.
> How I understand this, is that you are not paid for this, so you will accept contributions to compensate for this. It sounds to me to say that donations will go straight into your pocketfor your time. Is this true?
No. "Donations are deposited into a University account that I'm allowed to draw upon for Internet work-related expenses." That's one of the limitations of this system. But it still helps, and it would be fine for the fund drive.
But that's part of the idea of a membership fee, it could compensate me for my time, too. I'm more squeezed for time than money...
> Now if you are willing to take money both for the expenses of the site, *and* for your time in the site, I would still present it the second way. I would not even talk about how YOU are not compensated for the work you do in your spare time, I would only say that the site needs money to be able to provide its services and that is why you are asking for donations.
But if extra money goes into my pocket, I'd need to say so, wouldn't I?
> So I guess what I am saying is in my opinion, you need to rewrite the request for donation part in a completely different way.
>
> What do you think? I'm a little scared that I know what I mean, but I don't know really how to explain it.That was an important distinction, being reimbursed for expenses vs. being paid for my time. Let me know -- after the holidays --if you have any other questions or suggestions. Thanks for your help!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 21:40:46
In reply to Re: Perhaps one more idea » Dr. Bob, posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 19:42:19
> what I meant was just information somewhere in the registration process-letting them know donations are welcome, but not required to browse, post, or whatever.
OK, I get it now. But are you thinking that they might actually make a donation then, or just that it wouldn't hurt to plant a seed?
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
>
> Yeah that's fine, I certainly don't have a problem with it :-) I just think it's a little difficult to find/access, unless you know where to look.Well, that does seem to be the consensus... I assumed that someone who wanted to support the site would be able to figure out how, but if there's a better way, I'm interested...
> PS..how did you become DrdashBob?
The same way you became Kiddo? :-)
Bob
Posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 21:50:40
In reply to Re: Perhaps one more idea, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 21:40:46
> > what I meant was just information somewhere in the registration process-letting them know donations are welcome, but not required to browse, post, or whatever.
>
> OK, I get it now. But are you thinking that they might actually make a donation then, or just that it wouldn't hurt to plant a seed?Actually both, although I doubt that ppl would make a donation on their first visit. I guess more of a planting a seed. If people know about it, and like the site they may be more willing to contribute. I lurked here long before I posted, and didn't know about contributions until it was brought up on admin the first time. I didn't think about it actually 'costing' someone-and I have a site of my own. It just didn't connect and I think it may be due to the references to the University of Chicago.
>
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
> >
> > Yeah that's fine, I certainly don't have a problem with it :-) I just think it's a little difficult to find/access, unless you know where to look.
>
> Well, that does seem to be the consensus... I assumed that someone who wanted to support the site would be able to figure out how, but if there's a better way, I'm interested...In the registration process, and making the link on the Amazon ad helped a lot.
>
> > PS..how did you become DrdashBob?
>
> The same way you became Kiddo? :-)I never said I wasn't slow..LOL :-)
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 22:23:56
In reply to Re: Chapters, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 14:15:25
> > I'd highly suggest checking out their affiliate program
>
> I'll give it a tryI signed up, but don't think I'm going to link to them. Their system looks like it uses cookies and restricts the images to those on their server. Plus their "text" links use these little 1-pixel images that seem kind of surreptitious (and might slow things down). But I'll email them and see what they say...
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 23:46:36
In reply to Re: an idea? » Dr. Bob, posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 21:05:58
> > It costs $300 per month (for 800 MB; we were over 900 for a while, but I came up with a way to save some space -- 300 MB! -- so we're back under again).
> I looked at your stats, and you have a lot of hits each month, how much space does your traffric generate? I noticed that it was 300.00 a month then, and it's the same amount now and you freed some space. Is that correct?
Did you see the detailed monthly breakdowns? For example:
http://www.dr-bob.org/stats/usage_200110.html
As long as I'm under 800 MB, it's $300 per month. When I was over, it was extra...
> do you have medical students that do rotation under your supervision? If so, maybe you could enlist them (for extra credit, part of their grade, etc.) to post responses
I supervise a couple residents, but they haven't expressed any interest...
Bob
Posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 23:53:03
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 23:46:36
Ahhh-
I did look at the breakdown-I guess what I was asking was about bandwidth. I guess I was hoping for a quick answer instead of translating kb's to mg's and gig's.
I figured you might say that about the residents, but it was a thought-I never claimed it to be a GOOD thought however :-)
> > > It costs $300 per month (for 800 MB; we were over 900 for a while, but I came up with a way to save some space -- 300 MB! -- so we're back under again).
>
> > I looked at your stats, and you have a lot of hits each month, how much space does your traffric generate? I noticed that it was 300.00 a month then, and it's the same amount now and you freed some space. Is that correct?
>
> Did you see the detailed monthly breakdowns? For example:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/stats/usage_200110.html
>
> As long as I'm under 800 MB, it's $300 per month. When I was over, it was extra...
>
> > do you have medical students that do rotation under your supervision? If so, maybe you could enlist them (for extra credit, part of their grade, etc.) to post responses
>
> I supervise a couple residents, but they haven't expressed any interest...
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2001, at 0:25:44
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by kiddo on November 25, 2001, at 23:53:03
> I guess what I was asking was about bandwidth. I guess I was hoping for a quick answer instead of translating kb's to mg's and gig's.
Oh, 15382589 KB (in October) = 15382 MB = 15 GB. They don't charge me for bandwidth, so I don't pay much attention, but you can see that the new thread listing format in May made a big difference...
Bob
Posted by kiddo on November 26, 2001, at 0:44:32
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2001, at 0:25:44
Thanks for that-my math is under par to say the least right now. What about an additional site. Like a secondary one. Sometimes you can do that for little or no cost with your host, and may be a lot cheaper.
> > I guess what I was asking was about bandwidth. I guess I was hoping for a quick answer instead of translating kb's to mg's and gig's.
>
> Oh, 15382589 KB (in October) = 15382 MB = 15 GB. They don't charge me for bandwidth, so I don't pay much attention, but you can see that the new thread listing format in May made a big difference...
>
> Bob
Posted by kiddo on November 26, 2001, at 1:07:24
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 26, 2001, at 0:25:44
Umm-I sent an email with info, don't know why I didn't post it here-not thinking right again-sorry, I can copy and paste here if you'd like.
> > I guess what I was asking was about bandwidth. I guess I was hoping for a quick answer instead of translating kb's to mg's and gig's.
>
> Oh, 15382589 KB (in October) = 15382 MB = 15 GB. They don't charge me for bandwidth, so I don't pay much attention, but you can see that the new thread listing format in May made a big difference...
>
> Bob
Posted by Mitchell on November 27, 2001, at 3:23:44
In reply to Re: fund drive, posted by Dr. Bob on November 25, 2001, at 17:57:12
The new support text is somewhat better. I sense some reluctance to *tell* people directly to support the site. The text in the box at the top of the page says "You can help Psycho-Babble" whereas a more direct appeal would say "Help Psycho-Babble." It is important for any fundraising effort to reflect the value of the project for which funds are sought, so a direct appeal to "help" might not fit. It seems the philosophy here is to put the onus of control in the group and in individual members, so you might not want to tell them what to do, especially to give you money.
But another tack could get more directly to the heart of people's interest in supporting the site and could help to develop that interest. You could build on what is now the first line to more effectively develop people's interest.
Now it says: "If you like my work -- and would like to support it -- then you've followed the right link!"
A contingency statement like that is not so pushy than a direct ask. But the best contingency might be something other than whether a person likes your work. My advice would be that whether or not people like *your* work might not be relevant. Far more people are likely to support the site because they like the mission of the site than because they like your work.
I don't want to suggest *exactly* what it could say, but I do want to offer a suggestion. Maybe something along these lines:
"If you think on-line forums for mental health support are important you've come to the right place. I think they are important. That is why I contribute my time to make this site possible. This is a 100% volunteer effort...(etc.)"
...then... "No one is under any obligation to offer any support. This site is and always has been free (and free of advertisements). But if think a supportive and educational on-line forum such as this is an important resource, you might want to make a donation. If you want to contribute financially, that's great! etc."
This way, you're not limiting support to people who like your work, you are explaining why you do the work, why you think it is important, and acknowledging that others might want to help and facilitating their involvement.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 11, 2001, at 15:13:28
In reply to Re: an idea?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 18, 2001, at 21:25:30
> > It would be nice for a doc familiar with us to discuss cutting edge techniques, advances, thoughts, strange drug combos, etc. You could have a big disclaimer, of course.
> > Someone like Ivan Goldberg comes to mind.
>
> It's getting a doc familiar with you that would be the tricky part. But I can ask Ivan, he might be tickled that he was specifically requested. :-)OK, I asked him, and he's giving it a try, as "psydoc". Let's see how this goes...
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2001, at 17:48:09
In reply to Finding support, posted by Mitchell on November 27, 2001, at 3:23:44
> I sense some reluctance to *tell* people directly to support the site... you might not want to tell them what to do, especially to give you money.
Right.
> But the best contingency might be something other than whether a person likes your work. My advice would be that whether or not people like *your* work might not be relevant. Far more people are likely to support the site because they like the mission of the site than because they like your work.
Well, the site is my work, but I take your point, it depersonalizes it. I went and changed the text a little:
> If you'd like to support online education and self-help, you've followed the right link! Those are the goals of this site, and this is a 100% volunteer effort by one person (me)...
>
> No one is under any obligation to offer any support. This site is and always has been free (and free of advertisements). But if you'd like to support online education and self-help, you may make a donation...
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/support.htmlBetter?
Thanks for your input,
Bob
Posted by Mitchell on December 14, 2001, at 20:50:07
In reply to Re: Finding support, posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2001, at 17:48:09
> I take your point, it depersonalizes it. I went and changed the text a little:> > http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
>
> Better?They say the proof is in the pudding. The efficacy of fund-raising appeals can be measured in terms of donations.
The revised appeal might provide more readers with a better reason to donate. I would suggest adding a comment about money. Your testimony says you donate your time, but you do not explain that you fund the site out of your pocket and specifically why it costs money to run the site. Neurolinguists might suggest that simply repeating the word "money" in a script increases the likelihood that readers will do something with their money. Helping people to conceptualize you using your money to pay for the site might inspire them to use their money for the same purpose. Talking about server costs could help them connect the dots from their checkbook (or credit card payment) to the costs of operating the site, to the less tangible ideal of support and education.
> Thanks for your input,;-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2001, at 14:47:45
In reply to Re: Finding support, posted by Mitchell on December 14, 2001, at 20:50:07
> They say the proof is in the pudding. The efficacy of fund-raising appeals can be measured in terms of donations.
Well, it's multifactorial. And I think the actual saying is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Otherwise, it makes it sound like the proof is something buried in the pudding, like with:
> Your testimony says you donate your time, but you do not explain that you fund the site out of your pocket and specifically why it costs money to run the site... Helping people to conceptualize you using your money to pay for the site might inspire them to use their money for the same purpose. Talking about server costs could help them connect the dots from their checkbook (or credit card payment) to the costs of operating the site, to the less tangible ideal of support and education.
OK, good point, I've revised it again:
http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Bob
Posted by kiddo on December 15, 2001, at 16:38:32
In reply to Re: Finding support, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2001, at 14:47:45
Ummm-
If this is paid for out of your pocket (and I'm not doubting or saying that is isn't), then why do donations have to be made payable to the U of C instead of you?
Just curious
> > They say the proof is in the pudding. The efficacy of fund-raising appeals can be measured in terms of donations.
>
> Well, it's multifactorial. And I think the actual saying is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Otherwise, it makes it sound like the proof is something buried in the pudding, like with:
>
> http://www.crackerjack.com
>
> > Your testimony says you donate your time, but you do not explain that you fund the site out of your pocket and specifically why it costs money to run the site... Helping people to conceptualize you using your money to pay for the site might inspire them to use their money for the same purpose. Talking about server costs could help them connect the dots from their checkbook (or credit card payment) to the costs of operating the site, to the less tangible ideal of support and education.
>
> OK, good point, I've revised it again:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
>
> Bob
Posted by Mitchell on December 15, 2001, at 21:01:40
In reply to Re: Finding support, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2001, at 14:47:45
> > They say the proof is in the pudding. The efficacy of fund-raising appeals can be measured in terms of donations.
>
> Well, it's multifactorial.You know best what you want it to achieve. People's approach to using the forum might correlate with their awareness of your investment. But you might also enjoy finding a few coins in the bottom of your pudding, too.
> And I think the actual saying is that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Otherwise, it makes it sound like the proof is something buried in the pudding,
The Word Detective agrees with you, and common sense suggests the original version makes more sense. I actually thought "what a silly saying" when I wrote it. "Proof-of-the-pudding" is closer to the original English version, but "proof-is-in-the-pudding" is common and makes some sense, says Evan Morris, the Word Detective.
"'The proof is in the pudding,' a fairly common mutation of the proverb, does make a certain amount of sense, i.e., that the final product, not the recipe, is what counts." - Evan Morris
http://www.word-detective.com/081100.html
BTW, does anybody have a good Figgy Pudding recipe?
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2002, at 17:27:20
In reply to Re: Finding support, posted by Mitchell on December 15, 2001, at 21:01:40
> you might also enjoy finding a few coins in the bottom of your pudding, too.
More than a few coins arrived in the mail today. Thanks, Mair! :-) I very much appreciate your support. And it'll help keep this site going!
http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2002, at 19:30:11
In reply to Re: Thanks, Mair! :-), posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2002, at 17:27:20
> http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
And today Dinah joined her as a new Associate. Thanks!
Bob
PS: Did someone start the fund drive without letting me know? :-)
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 19:08:48
In reply to Re: Thanks, Dinah! :-), posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2002, at 19:30:11
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
Today mouse became a Partner. Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 26, 2002, at 8:55:58
In reply to Re: Thanks, Dinah! :-), posted by Dr. Bob on January 11, 2002, at 19:30:11
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/support.html
>
> today Dinah joined as a new Associate. Thanks!And today she was promoted to Partner. Thanks again! (No, this is not a law firm. :-)
Bob
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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