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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bleauberry on July 11, 2018, at 9:06:09
I think something missing from the psychiatric community is diversity. I'm not talking about skin color or country of origin. I'm talking about the actual treatments.
Our treatments are very un-diverse. They are basically focused only on one thing - manipulating brain chemicals one way or another. Nothing else. Just that. Each med manipulates brain chemicals in different ways. Sometimes only a little different, for example Zoloft versus Lexapro, and sometimes a lot different, such as Ability versus Zyprexa, or Adderall versus Ritalin. They all focus on just one thing - brain chemicals.
In my opinion, and experience, I truly believe the vast majority of psychiatric diseases and symptoms originate from issues having to do with 1.systemic inflammation, gut inflammation and/or brain inflammation; 2.Pathogenic microbial overload; 3.Pathogenic accumulation of trace toxins. Those 3 things dramatically change genetic instructions, organ functions, and neurotransmitter integrity.
Digging deep into clinical studies at pubmed there are hints of anecdote observations of these kinds of things going on: 1.Toxins from environment or chronic infection can bind with serotonin or dopamine molecules and contaminate them, change them, make them so they don't fit in their keyholes any more, they don't dock at their receptor sites properly. And of course bad mood would result from that. Or perhaps something is blocking the receptor site so that even if the serotonin is not contaminated, it can't dock itself, it can't finish its journey, it can't do its job.
And so when we increase levels of serotonin with a drug, maybe at some point the increased concentration of un-contaminated serotonin overtakes the concentration of contaminated serotonin, and that is where the patient feels improvement. Or maybe, increased serotonin competes at the binding sites and kicks out whatever is blocking the sites. But it requires a heavy concentration of serotonin to do that, drug induced.
If the serotonin stays contaminated or the docking sites stay clogged, then no matter how much we increase brain chemicals, it doesn't change the situation, and then we say the term "treatment resistant".
I submit that if we introduce diversity into treatment, we remarkably increase the chances of better outcomes. That could include: 1.Anti-inflammatory herbs/meds. 2.Antimicrobial herbs/meds. 3.Anti-toxin herbs/meds. 4.Adaptogen herbs. 5.Changes to the grocery cart.
Some immediate thoughts for those roles:
1. Anti-inflammatory: Andrographis, Resveratrol extracted from Polygonum Cupsidatum not extracted from grapes, Baical.
2. Anti-microbial: Many, berberine, raw garlic, andrographis, resveratrol, grapefruit seed extract, neem leaf or extract, black walnut hulls, wormwood, cloves, oregano, and others...rotate every few weeks 2 or 3 of these. Can also include antibiotics and/or the anti fungal Diflucan.
3. Anti-toxin: N-Acetyl-Cystein, parsley, cilantro, DMSA, high dose vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid.
4.Adaptogens: Eleuthero, Rhodiola rosea, Cordyceps, Ashwaganda. Try them all and find 1,2, or 3 that you are comfortable taking for months or forever. These herbs have complicated multi-faceted mechanisms but are basically combination agonist and antagonist at a lot of different sites in the body - so the end result is that they tend to bring balance to something that is too loud or too quiet, too strong or too weak, and are commonly used to help stabilize mood, adrenal glands, thyroid operation and pituitary gland, as well as manipulating brain chemicals mildly or modestly.
5.Gluten free. There is no excuse for any psychiatric patient not taking at least 2 weeks out of their normal schedule to try a totally gluten-free eating habit to see if anything changes. There is a good chance things will change. Non-GMo foods, sort of the same thing, but not as dramatic. Genetically modified grains kill animals and even humans when eaten in large quantities, as happened on a corn farm in a National Geographic documentary. In smaller quantities, I think it is reasonable that they could cause mood symptoms in some people with weak genetics. No way to know for sure. But it's easy enough, it makes no sense to not try. Other than that, focus on organic as much as possible so as to avoid trace amounts of pesticides, herbicides or other unknowns. A general rule of thumb for each meal is that the plate should be well balanced with good protein, good fats, lower carbs, low sugar, and plenty of color - each plate should have a variety of colors - reds, orange, green, brown, white, the more variety the better. Eat 5 smaller meals per day rather than 3 huge ones. Or eat 3 modest meals with 2 healthy snacks. Believe it or not, on a 1 to 10 scale of psychiatric symptom intensity, diet changes alone can make a 1 or 2 point difference.I was going to mention anti-oxidants as a thing, but no. I don't think it is. That's because I was on serious anti-oxidant treatment when I was sick and it did nothing to help my mood at all. Maybe good for overall health, but not so much for acute mood issues. That said, all of the herbs mentioned here have very high anti-oxidant properties.
On a 1-10 scale, each of the above 5 strategies might get you a 1/4 point to 2 point gain. In our treatment resistant battles, every little bit matters! Especially when we stack all these little improvements on top of each other, we get big improvements like 3-6 improvement on a 1-10 scale.
The meds might get us a few points. But we need to add to that. I don't think more and more meds are the best way to do that. Reviewing this archives of this board suggest strongly that adding more meds probably won't bring significant points.
Diversity. We need. Diversity of treatment. I think we get our best outcomes by doing the best we can with psychiatric medications, and then methodically add/subtract other treatments to that on a continuing basis until we find our personal magic pills. Which do exist. They just might not be prescription magic pills. I don't think they are prescriptions. The magic comes from the other stuff that helps the meds work better.
In my opinion.
I take a large cocktail to stay well. It got me well over many months and keeps me well. Most of it, but not all of it, is listed below.
Anti-inflammatory: Resveratrol, fish oil, berberine, andrographis, digestive enzymes, co-q10, ECGc (green tea extract), and a professional Multi.
Anti-microbial: Resveratrol, berberine, andrographis, needs leaf, L-arginine, high dose C., silymarin.
Anti-toxin: Professional multi (Life Extension brand), orac-energy greens, N-A-C, high dose C, silymarin. Plus dietary broccoli, cauliflower, cabbages.
Adaptogens: Rhodiola Rosea, Cordyceps, Ashwaganda.
Grocery: Gluten free always, Non-gmo often, organic often, low sugar.And other stuff. Currently ramping up on St Johns Wort mostly for Lyme applications not so much mood issues. Hawthorne for heart health. Silymarin for liver health.
As you can see, scanning the list, most herbs have multiple mechanisms and serve multiple roles.
I think back to 10 years ago I was a treatment resistant basket case running out of ideas with meds. I had been through all of them. I had even ordered meds from overseas that aren't available in our country. I had failed 12 sessions of bilateral ECT. I failed everything tried. But then, when the above strategies were added to my psychiatric meds, we can fast forward 10 years and see that the treatment resistant depression is gone, and the psychiatric medications are also gone.....
I think it deserves mention - emphasis actually - that I was very sensitive to all of these supplements in the beginning. All of them had to be approached with a low-and-slow titration plan. That by itself - the sensitivity - is a strong clue of Lyme. But anyway, months and years later, I'm at full doses with no probs, all benefit, no side effects, no ill effects.
The sicker we are, and the longer we've been sick, the slower we have to go with adding new treatments. But we can still get to the finish line.
I'm just suggesting that diversity of treatment is likely to produce much better results than just psychiatric cocktails would. And I'm not making it up.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 27, 2018, at 1:59:40
In reply to Treatment Diversity, posted by bleauberry on July 11, 2018, at 9:06:09
ketogenic diet, which purges all processed food out, and makes all natural, also this is another....you had said about inflammation, also undetected abnormalities in the brain also....i got a scan done at the hospital after a wreck in 2006, they said there was small abnormally, but they said it didn't look serious, that was 12 years ago....i never went back to get rescanned over the CAT scan
sickness, psychical sickness can cause psychiatric disorders, due to abnormality in brain, frontal lobe
i've used scalar energy bracelet, it uses this quantum.....it has metals in it that restore the body's bio field, and i've also taken supplements, i was taking stablon for a while and another med, stablon improved fluoxetine's effects.....but i didnt stay on it forever
treatment session, you said diversity, is alot of factors, i usually have to take other supplements and meds, because it's impossible to work with doctor, they never take me serious, will never up or down the meds, its been way for 2 years, i went into a session they would not help me at all with struggles in school, there are supplements and meds that do help with attention and anxiety, had to divert in that direction to keep up in school
treatment diversity also could mean a combination of treatment for doctor, nutrition, sports medicine, combined that would help a patient benefit
Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 27, 2018, at 18:30:51
In reply to Re: Treatment Diversity, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 27, 2018, at 1:59:40
ok, nevermind about the doctor thing, i've just been thinking about that alot, doctor has gotten me on good meds, i need to reverse what i said, but its just sometims i feel kinda sit duck in water, not moving around when i get really depressed, or anxiety.....
take back all mean things said, but i just take supplements now, there's that stuff dl-phenylalanine and other supplements that help dopamine depletion that i have sometimes, not parkinson's but just low dopamine, that's a main thing i've had trouble with
take everything i said, replace it with good vibes, supplements can help diversity, and dopamine depletion that the other meds are not getting, forgetful, have some issues, not but for some reason i create ideas and work on providing info
Posted by rjlockhart37 on July 27, 2018, at 18:38:21
In reply to Re: Treatment Diversity, posted by rjlockhart37 on July 27, 2018, at 18:30:51
but yes....no more mean things say anymore, just have to deal with what it is
This is the end of the thread.
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