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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 5:51:01
What do you guys think of this?
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 7:13:52
In reply to N-Acetyl cysteine (NAC) for Schizophrenia, posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 5:51:01
> What do you guys think of this?
>
> http://schizophrenia.com/?page_id=706I have not looked into the use of NAC for schizophrenia. However, it has been recommended by a Harvard clinical researcher that NAC be used for treatment-resistant depression (TRD). Given that there are reports of NAC being used in schizophrenia and bipolar mania, it might make sense to try it. However, it can take as long as 6 months for NAC to exert an antidepressant effect. I would guess that, for some people, it can take awhile to help with schizophrenia as well. If you tolerate NAC, and it doesn't make you feel worse, I don't see much of a downside to give it a few months to help your other drugs to work. I don't know how well NAC would work by itself. Taking NAC increases the amount of glutathione in the body. Glutathione is a critical anti-oxidant that can reduce free-radical damage and cell death.
To be complete in assessing the medical literature, NAC can induce the metastasis (spread) of pre-existing melanoma in rodents. However, it doesn't seem to produce new tumors. I believe that other anti-oxidant supplements, including vitamin E, have been shown to increase the metastasis of tumors like lung cancer. I don't have any statistics to present. I would hope that the occurrence of these things in humans is remote. People have been taking massive amounts of NAC supplements for many years.
Scott
Posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 7:19:18
In reply to Re: N-Acetyl cysteine (NAC) for Schizophrenia » Jeroen, posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 7:13:52
SLS what about sarcosine?
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 8:14:09
In reply to SLS what about sarcosine?, posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 7:19:18
> SLS what about sarcosine?
I wish I could help you out with this one. I don't know anything about sarcosine.
Are you now afraid to try NAC because of cancer thing? I guess it comes down to what the risk is versus the potential benefits. I read up a little more on NAC. It is reported that NAC will not start new cancers, but will allow them to metastasize (spread) to other parts of the body. Unless you have an elevated risk of developing tumors or have spent too much time in the sun without sunblock, I would not worry about it. If I find out otherwise, I'll let you know.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 9:11:03
In reply to Re: SLS what about sarcosine?, posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 8:14:09
6 months for an anti depressant to kick in no thanks
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 5, 2016, at 9:37:37
In reply to NAC 6 months, posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 9:11:03
ever tried Orthomolecular? The basic version is a b-50 or b-100, 3 grams+ of niacin or niacinamide, at least as much vitamin C as niacin or niacinamide, 800+ IU vitamin E (I prefer natural form w/ mixed tocopherols), plus a multi-vitamin.
It takes a while, especially if you've been sick for a while, but...it's made a huge difference for me.
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 15:56:56
In reply to NAC 6 months, posted by Jeroen on July 5, 2016, at 9:11:03
Hi, Jeroen.
> 6 months for an anti depressant to kick in no thanks
6 months is not an ideal waiting period, of course. 6 days would be beter. However, you can be trying other treatments in the meantime. You could consider NAC to be more of a supplement than a drug. It is thought that NAC reduces glutamate overactivity. If it were to work for you, you could have been better by now had you started taking it in January. That's not too bad.
I tried NAC, but I didn't like how I felt on it. It caused a mild dysphoria. This seems to be an atypical reaction, though. If you don't like it, you just stop taking it.
You have a long life ahead of you. 6 months is nothing. That's easy for me to say, though. It is true, though. And like I said, you can be trying other drugs in the meantime.
Okay... That's the end of my sale-pitch.
:-)
I truly don't know what I would do if I were in your position. I know you have had many bad reactions to drugs in the past. Perhaps it is best for you to do more research on NAC before committing to it.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 16:01:25
In reply to Re: NAC 6 months, posted by Christ_empowered on July 5, 2016, at 9:37:37
> ever tried Orthomolecular? The basic version is a b-50 or b-100, 3 grams+ of niacin or niacinamide, at least as much vitamin C as niacin or niacinamide, 800+ IU vitamin E (I prefer natural form w/ mixed tocopherols), plus a multi-vitamin.
That's an interesting treatment. It's not too complicated. It seems that you did a good job optimizing your regime with as few supplements as possible. In what ways do you feel that you benefit from this?
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 5, 2016, at 17:28:29
In reply to Re: NAC 6 months » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 16:01:25
well...I'm calmer, I tolerate the Abilify better, I sleep better...
...I think I get more mileage out of the meds, honestly. Depression is still a problem, but the Wellbutrin is working much better than I'd expected, with no noticeable side effects.
If you've been sick for a while, OM is supposed to be used with meds, probably indefinitely. There was a study of sorts from the late 60s into the early 80s that showed a very low rate of TD with an OM supplement mix a group of shrinks gave their patients on neuroleptics.
Posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 20:40:17
In reply to Re: NAC 6 months, posted by Christ_empowered on July 5, 2016, at 17:28:29
> well...I'm calmer, I tolerate the Abilify better, I sleep better...
>
> ...I think I get more mileage out of the meds, honestly. Depression is still a problem, but the Wellbutrin is working much better than I'd expected, with no noticeable side effects.
>
> If you've been sick for a while, OM is supposed to be used with meds, probably indefinitely. There was a study of sorts from the late 60s into the early 80s that showed a very low rate of TD with an OM supplement mix a group of shrinks gave their patients on neuroleptics.I'm glad that you are feeling better.
Is there still work being done with vitamin E and tardive dyskinesia?
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 6, 2016, at 12:14:15
In reply to Re: NAC 6 months » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on July 5, 2016, at 20:40:17
my understanding is that vitamin E is regarded as sometimes helpful in new(ish) cases of TD, but its not so great for established TD.
I did see a tiny abstract of a small German study that used vitamin C w/ vitamin E (doses weren't given) in people w/ more severe TD+affective disorders. The results were apparently quite good.
There's also some older research on using high dose B6 for a number of psychiatric indications, including TD and acute akathisia. I was taking a whole lot of B6 at one point, but now I just get the 100mgs provided in a B-100. I'm free of EPS, tremor, tics, dysphoria, etc., so OM has been tremendously helpful for me.
This is the end of the thread.
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