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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 10:09:53
In the largest randomized, double-blind, placebo controlled study to date on the effect of OnabotulinumtoxinA (known as Botox) on depression, researchers found that more than half of subjects suffering from moderate to severe depression showed a substantial improvement (greater than or equal to 50% of baseline) in their depressive symptoms as measured by the MADRS scale. The study showed that Botox may help relieve depressive symptoms both as a stand-alone and an adjunctive treatment.
The entire article: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/04/prweb11720136.htm
The study: http://www.botoxfordepression.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Finzi-Rosenthal-Article-FINAL-copy1.pdf
Posted by sheilac on April 3, 2014, at 11:08:31
In reply to Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50%, posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 10:09:53
Not sure I've noticed it has helped my depression! But, hey, if it will eventually be paid for by insurance for treatment in depression, great!
Posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 15:25:19
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50%, posted by sheilac on April 3, 2014, at 11:08:31
Where on your face did you get the injections? For treating depression, the corrugator and procerus muscles are injected -- between the eyebrows and just above.
Posted by Sheilac on April 3, 2014, at 15:39:23
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » sheilac, posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 15:25:19
That's where I get it, so I can't squint or make a bad face. I guess this makes my face look more pleasing to others so others are nicer to me and in theory that's how Botox is supposed to help depression?
My face looks great, but it still doesn't help with depression.
Maybe it does for some people. Who knows.
Posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 16:07:24
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » Hugh, posted by Sheilac on April 3, 2014, at 15:39:23
> That's where I get it, so I can't squint or make a bad face. I guess this makes my face look more pleasing to others so others are nicer to me and in theory that's how Botox is supposed to help depression?
That might explain part of it, but a stronger case can be made that by preventing depressed people from frowning, it makes it more difficult for them to feel negative. The New York Times weighs in on it here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/opinion/sunday/dont-worry-get-botox.html
Posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2014, at 17:47:08
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » Sheilac, posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 16:07:24
I best get it then. I had a frown line across the nose surgically fixed but some there there. What about the nose to mouth lines? Phillipa
Posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 18:29:49
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » Hugh, posted by Phillipa on April 3, 2014, at 17:47:08
I doubt treating the nose to mouth lines would do any good for depression.
"Injections were delivered at five locations in the corrugator and procerus muscles between the eyebrows, roughly defining a letter V. Total doses were 29 units for women and 40 units for men."
Here's a book about this treatment:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Face-Emotion-Affects-Relationships/dp/0230341853
Posted by kribensis on April 4, 2014, at 10:39:12
In reply to Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50%, posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 10:09:53
Please be careful using botox!
Botulinum toxin is the most potent NEUROTOXIN on the planet. It damages nerves! What you are not told is that is spreads VERY easily. (And when you think about it, what substance could every be injected into the body without spreading to a certain extent?).
Dr's don't tell you this when they are injecting you, but you can get botulism from the injections. There is no known treatment or cure for this and it is way more common than you think. Usually on forms they say that a little bruising or headache could result even though they are legally suppose to inform you of the true risks.
I had cosmetic botox injections a few times. Looking back, the first few times I was getting some spreading but didn't realize that is what it was (trap nerve pain, trouble sleeping, some anxiety). My last injections 3 years ago sent me to the ER by ambulance 2 days after my injections. I had iatrogenic botulism and it took me 2.5 years to recover. I consider myself fortunate as some people never recover. One woman I know is in a wheelchair from her COSMETIC botox injections 2 years after her last injections. I have been in touch with at least 100 people who have had severe reactions and that is only who I have been in touch with.
Many people have side effects and don't attribute them to botox as many dr's aren't even aware of the possible side effects. Insomnia, depression, anxiety, rage, fibro like symptoms, gallbladder problems, digestive problems, nerve issues anywhere on the body, muscle spasms anywhere on the body, heart palps, headaches, diarrhea, panic attacks, constipation, blurry vision, dry eyes, dry mouth, etc., etc. As the toxin affects the autonomic nervous system, it can affect any system in the body. Symptoms can start immediately after injections to several weeks later. That is why it is often difficult to connect the injections to the symptoms.
I am not talking about black market botox! I am talking about real botox injected by a trained and certified physician. And it is like playing russian roulette... just because you were fine with previous injections, it doesn't mean that you won't have a severe reaction one time. Dr's downplay the effects and side effects are way underreported because they don't want to acknowledge it as it is such a big money maker.
When it spreads significantly, it is like being tortured day after day and nothing helps. Unless you have been through it you would think I was exaggerating but it is pure hell, not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Although I am "recovered" I am not the "same" and have PTSD issues from the experience.
I know this won't stop most of you from getting injections but I would encourage you to at least do some research on it and actually to know and understand the facts. I understand that there are risks with many things (even antidepressant and antianxiety drugs!) but the studies on botox were skewed in order to get it approved.
Here is a great site to get more information:
www.botoxcommunitysupport.comGreat to watch: http://kfor.com/2013/05/03/investigation-allergan-botox/
Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2014, at 21:08:18
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50%, posted by kribensis on April 4, 2014, at 10:39:12
I have also read that all the cosmetic fillers can cause serious side effects. Like bumps and infections in the skin requiring surgery to fix. Seems like an inexpensive way to look a bit younger. As for the depression which started the Link can't comment on that really. But even after having conventional surgery it caused PTSD type reactions for a few months. So I guess this is why when have visited the plastic surgeon's offices neither they or they staff use the products or have had surgery. Some female RN's had implants. Phillipa
Posted by brynb on April 16, 2014, at 21:34:41
In reply to Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50%, posted by Hugh on April 3, 2014, at 10:09:53
Hugh-
Love this! I'm a big fan of the 'tox; I'll be 40 in 2 months and I've been doing it (out of sheer vanity) since my early 30's. (Admittedly, I'm quite expressive and from depression and anxiety, you can imagine how it's manifested on my forehead and furrowed brow!) That said, it never helped my depression, lol.
As you know (I think), my pdoc here in NYC (Fruitman), offers Botox as well as kinds of fillers and other cosmetic dermatology treatments. In fact, he expanded his office and opened an adjacent med spa! Naturally, I have mixed feelings on combining the 2 medical fields, though in theory it does make sense as we all know how our feelings affect the way we carry ourselves and how we look. I suppose the idea of looking younger and less expressive can lead to more confidence and perhaps some contentment too. We all know how harshly we judge all aspects of ourselves!
That said (again), in my personal experience, Botox, if anything, may have only relieved my depression for all of a few hours immediately after treatment as it restored some confidence. After that, not so much!
-b
Posted by brynb on April 17, 2014, at 0:02:34
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » kribensis, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2014, at 21:08:18
> I have also read that all the cosmetic fillers can cause serious side effects. Like bumps and infections in the skin requiring surgery to fix. Seems like an inexpensive way to look a bit younger. As for the depression which started the Link can't comment on that really. But even after having conventional surgery it caused PTSD type reactions for a few months. So I guess this is why when have visited the plastic surgeon's offices neither they or they staff use the products or have had surgery. Some female RN's had implants. Phillipa
Hi Phillipa!
How are you? Just wanted to point out (from any earlier response on the thread), I've never heard of Botox being used on the nose, and only sometimes (and very rarely), is it used for the mouth (and if it is, usually it's to "freeze" puckering/lines above the mouth that develop w/age, though the only way to really address anything except for brow lines, forehead wrinkles and crow's feet is with fillers such as Juvederm (the treatment of choice, at least in NYC).
Also, Botox is not considered a filler; it acts as a paralytic agent to the muscles it's injected into--it's doesn't fill or plump the face; it smoothes it out (and usually only lasts for about 3 months). Fillers are typically temporary, too (ie Juvederm, Restalyne, etc.), but last longer than Botox. Silicone though is permanent and can cause the lumps and puffiness (so it's really very hard to remove and/or restore the original skin/facial area to "normal.") Goodness! I'm way too into skincare ;), lol!!
I agree that cosmetic/surgical procedures can sometimes worsen depression at first, especially as many people have unrealistic expectations, though if folks can get past the initial healing period, it's usually a great mood booster, at least in terms of how one feels about themselves.
All good with you?
Hope you're well!!
-b
Posted by Hugh on April 17, 2014, at 11:33:55
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » Hugh, posted by brynb on April 16, 2014, at 21:34:41
Hi Bryn,
I'd try Botox in a minute if I thought it would help my depression, but I have very little frown line activity between my eyes, so it would be much less likely to help me. I just looked at Dr. Fruitman's med spa site. He's certainly branching out, and in a big way.
Posted by Phillipa on April 17, 2014, at 19:51:41
In reply to Re: Botox improves 52% of depressed by at least 50% » Phillipa, posted by brynb on April 17, 2014, at 0:02:34
Bryn sorry to reply so late but had to take the computer in and using the spare. What you say is totally true about the fillers. And thinking back I did get a newsletter on the botox on nose helping depression. Worth a shot isn't it? Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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