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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Trevpr on July 14, 2013, at 22:38:57
Yeah, so I'm not really sure what to do anymore. I've posted several times talking a bit about my symptoms, so I'm sure some of you guys know what's up already.
It's just this emotional numbness/apathy/low libido and such... It's killing me! And sometimes I get severe anxiety and panic attacks. I try not to use too much Xanax (I use at most 0.25mg and that seems to work for an acute panic attack) only when necessary.
The anxiety comes and goes, but the anhedonia/not being able to fully enjoy things really affects my quality of life! (I'm sure you know what I mean)
Well, it's obvious that the Parnate isn't helping. When I first started taking it, for the first week or two I felt more motivated and chatty and my libido went way up (though it wasn't the "touchy feely" libido I like, it was more crude and like the disloyal lusty meth libido kind, lol). I liked the boost sort of, but it faded quickly. This was probably the dopamine increase which my body always grows a tolerance to very quickly (like with stimulants such as Ritalin or Amphetamine).
I was left with not feeling the "lows" of the depression, but still no effect on the "highs" that I should be feeling in life. I still felt flat. Now it doesn't seem to be doing much at all. I went up to 50mg and stayed there a while, then went down to 40mg, and now I'm at 30mg and just going to come off of it. It seems to just be increasing anxiety.
I think it is affecting me differently after 11 bilateral ECTs. Before, it wouldn't make me feel anxious, but not, I think that it might be contributing to anxiety.
Anyways, any advice/experiences about coming off of Parnate? Did taking Parnate help your libido, or did it just give you a temporary boost like for a week or two like it did for me, or did it worsen it in the long run? Does it numb your emotions or help them to feel more intense (in a good way)? How did you feel tapering off of it? Any info would be helpful!
I just feel like I'm playing whack-a-mole with these meds! One med might help a tiny bit, but then it will have all these other problems to deal with. I keep having to whack symptoms taking more and more meds! I feel like I'm going to go crazy, lol. I think I'm just going to wash everything out and start with St. John's Wort and ECT as needed (really, ECT and Ritalin have been the only things to have helped with the anhedonia/numbness/apathy/low libido at all the way that I wanted). Some things like Parnate had some effects which were sort of fun, but they weren't what I was looking for and didn't make me feel like myself at all...
Posted by antennastoheaven on July 15, 2013, at 1:31:17
In reply to Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 14, 2013, at 22:38:57
I've never taken Parnate or another MAOI besides Emsam (which made me too tired so I gave up after three weeks), but I have a few comments... I suffer from some similar symptoms of anhedonia. I'm not sure if this will be very helpful and apologize if it is not useful at all.
My guess is that ECT could be responsible for the change in anxiety... I have never done ECT, but I have noticed my tendency to become anxious in response to the same situation and chemicals has changed over time, so maybe your general tendency to become anxious increased after ECT.
My anxiety got a lot worse after ecstasy abuse last summer, to the point where I took a SSRI to control it for a few months. A different form of anxiety developed soon after I stopped taking the SSRI, first just while taking drugs (Adderall) but later it started happening when not on any drugs (besides my daily Wellbutrin) and was much worse while taking any other anxiogenic drug. I started doing CBT and after a few months my anxiety was greatly reduced. I'm now able to use drugs that previously caused me great anxiety without having nearly so many problems.
Once again, just a guess... I've noticed effects from stimulants that might be similar to something you experience. I take care to avoid tolerance but maybe some of the bad things I feel short-term could be felt long-term on something like Parnate which is not only a MAOI but metabolizes into amphetamines. On both Vyvanse and Adderall I can get this feeling of anxiety while the drug is active... usually immediately after stopping an activity or cessation of some kind of stimulation. I can reverse the feeling quickly by finding something else engaging, but if I don't it can develop into worse anxiety. I have no idea if this is anything like what you could be experiencing.
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 4:54:43
In reply to Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 14, 2013, at 22:38:57
For me, Nardil treats anhedonia much better than Parnate does. Nardil should also be better for treating anxiety disorders.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2013, at 9:32:11
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING » Trevpr, posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 4:54:43
It just clicked parnate metabolizes into amphetimines? That to me would mean it's the worse med anyone with anxiety could take. Especially if wellbutrin causes anxiety in many me included. Phillipa
Posted by Trevpr on July 15, 2013, at 19:37:03
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2013, at 9:32:11
If it metabolizes into amp. it would have to be a pretty weak amp.
I know this is sort of strange but for some reason, a couple of days after a dose reduction in Parnate, I am actually feeling BETTER than before. Most people say that coming off of Parnate is difficult and triggers panic attacks and makes them feel down, but for me it seems to make me feel more calm, talkative, and lessens the anhedonia during the withdrawal!
Wtf, why am I having this kind of response to tapering off when initially Parnate took away my low moods and anxiety??
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2013, at 21:23:51
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 15, 2013, at 19:37:03
It amped you up and now you feel more calm without the med? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on July 16, 2013, at 21:46:45
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 15, 2013, at 19:37:03
> I know this is sort of strange but for some reason, a couple of days after a dose reduction in Parnate, I am actually feeling BETTER than before.
This phenomenon is called a discontinuation rebound improvement. It usually doesn't last for very long.
- Scott
Posted by Trevpr on July 19, 2013, at 0:56:13
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING » Trevpr, posted by SLS on July 16, 2013, at 21:46:45
You are right on, Scott. Yesterday was really awful!! I felt nauseous, I had ringing in my right ear, felt slightly confused, could not sleep, and more.
How long do these terrible withdrawal symptoms typically last??
I guess it makes sense, since it took about 7 days to feel Parnate, now it's taking 7 days to feel the withdrawal. Any pointers? This feeling of being slow like there is a brick in my head eventually goes away, right?
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2013, at 6:40:28
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 19, 2013, at 0:56:13
> You are right on, Scott. Yesterday was really awful!! I felt nauseous, I had ringing in my right ear, felt slightly confused, could not sleep, and more.
>
> How long do these terrible withdrawal symptoms typically last??It's hard to say. Maybe a week or so. It is just as important to taper Parnate gradually as it is with SRI drugs. The heaviness and slowness in your head should also resolve in a week or so. I guess this symptom is analogous to an amphetamine withdrawal.
How did you go about tapering Parnate?
- Scott
Posted by Trevpr on July 19, 2013, at 17:43:30
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING » Trevpr, posted by SLS on July 19, 2013, at 6:40:28
I only went from 40mg to 30mg. Going from 50mg to 40mg didn't seem as bad, but there were lots of panic attacks. I notice that about 4 hours after taking a pill, if I do not take another, I become extremely anxious, paranoid, and slow. It makes it difficult to sleep at night. Benzos don't seem to help too much (and I only have xanax, so it only helps for longer 1 hr when I take it a little bit)
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 6, 2013, at 9:44:17
In reply to Re: Coming off of Parnate, Coming off EVERYTHING, posted by Trevpr on July 19, 2013, at 17:43:30
I just hope i will be fine going off Parnate.. its no good for my particular psyche.
I wish you good luck with your project coming off off everything. Take your time. It must be liberating if you get along without psychiatric care. In a way, you feel more "normal" if you dont have to take the meds.
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