![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Hugh on January 15, 2013, at 10:43:23
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gilmourr on January 14, 2013, at 23:10:43
> Did you friend have a 70%+ of his depression remit? And did it help with comorbid symptoms?
He's certainly not depression free on ECT. Probably not even 70%. And he still takes antidepressants. But before ECT he was severely depressed, and had attempted suicide at least twice.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 15, 2013, at 17:17:29
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT? » gilmourr, posted by Hugh on January 15, 2013, at 10:43:23
Hi mate
before you consider undergoing ECT, would you consider posting a list of which drugs you've tried, and what effect each had on your symptoms
A few of us (especialy Mr SLS) might have some ideas that could help without going through ECT, which while it can be life saving in severe melancholic depression, could hardly be described as a fun experience
Posted by Hugh on January 15, 2013, at 17:57:04
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gilmourr on January 15, 2013, at 6:03:59
> By "new tms" are you talking about rTMS or repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation?
Last week the FDA approved Deep TMS for depression. It's been available in Europe for three years. rTMS normally penetrates only about 1.5 cm into the brain. The newer Deep TMS, manufactured by Brainsway, penetrates 6 or 7 cm. It looks like it was just approved in Canada today.
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000814731&fid=1725
Posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 19:01:36
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gilmourr on January 14, 2013, at 23:13:13
> After 12 meds and different combos I'm tired of trying meds. I'm 22 and I want my life back. Not willing to play with meds for the next 10 years if an option can save my life
Fair enough. Unilateral wasn't nearly so bad as bilateral, which was so devastating I had to do it in the hospital because it took me a full day or two to recover. Unilateral you can do as an outpatient if you have friends who can drive you and wait for you.
Posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 19:09:26
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 19:01:36
Before I did ECT, I read a meta-study from a medical journal about its effects. The study did find cognitive effects in many patients but rarely permanent. It also found that the benefits were nowhere near as high as some claims made (3/4 patients achieve remission, etc). I used to have it on my computer until I got a virus and lost my files. I can't remember the author's name. I'll check my flash drives tomorrow and see if I saved it somewhere.
Posted by Zyprexa on January 15, 2013, at 22:22:49
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 19:09:26
I have nothing good to say about ECT, except that it got me to take my meds.
If anything I think it made me stupider. In one year I had about the max # of ECTs posible. About 3 a week for many weeks on two occasions. When I first got sick, I would not take my meds, I thought I didn't need them and that I was fine. But my psychosis got the better of me and they put me in the hospital where they gave me ECTs each time. My first hospital stay I can't remember much of, except for a lot of realy crazy dreams. They had me on meds and ect. I was not suicidal (from what I can remember)before ECT or after. Not realy sure what it did for my depression, because I don't remember. 15 years later and I don't have my memory back, and I think I may be a little brain damaged from it. The memory loss is great. I've had people tell me I did things which I have no memory of. Also when I was getting the ECTs I had a very active/distorted dream life. I honestly can't say much for ECT except that it made me stupid.
Posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 23:35:44
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by baseball55 on January 15, 2013, at 19:09:26
Can't find the article, but I think the author's name was Sackheim.
Posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:17:39
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 15, 2013, at 17:17:29
> Hi mate
>
> before you consider undergoing ECT, would you consider posting a list of which drugs you've tried, and what effect each had on your symptoms
>
> A few of us (especialy Mr SLS) might have some ideas that could help without going through ECT, which while it can be life saving in severe melancholic depression, could hardly be described as a fun experienceMore than glad to.
Paxil - nothing @ 30 mg, 8 weeks
Prozac - Side effect sh*t storm, vomiting, no go here
Cipralex - 40% reduction in depression @ 20 mg, LOADS of insomnia, slept like 1 hour every 2 days. (8 weeks)
Zoloft - No side effects or just mild GI symptoms, seemed to work on depression and anxiety as well as cipralex (best SSRI)
(8-9 weeks)Nardil - F*ck*ng godly. This was almost remission, but I went to 60 mg and had bad mood swings so I came off it. When I went on 45 mg after 14 days being off it, it didn't work as well and I had more side effects. So this MAY be an option, I just think I need a break from it. (Also it gave me shivers and cold intolerance, if there's a way to get rid of this side effect it'd be PERFECT). (10-12 weeks)
Remeron - Slept 14-16 hours a day, great AD, nothing for anxiety, massive acne out breaks. Overall its good but I felt like a retard on this as I couldn't think. 8 weeks at 7.5 mg (I know, 7.5 mg...)
Effexor XR - High BP 165/125 and rising, stabbing chest pains, quit after 13 days. The chest pain was really bad. 75 mg
Celexa - Awful sexual dysfunction, even worse insomnia than cipralex. I wanted to go to sleep so badly but just couldn't. 20-30 mgParnate - Had a great AD response at 30 mg for 2 days, then it crashed. Then was hypothermic for 18 days straight. Freezing my *ss of so badly.
Lamictal - It was looking promising, but I had breathing issues on it, I could hardly breathe. It was 24/7 and did not seem tied to anxiety.
I want to go back on Nardil because it's godly, I just am waiting 2 months to see if the effect comes back. But I think it's too much norepinephrine. Though TWICE at 45 mg I had only constipation and it was working well. For some reason the 3rd time I tried Nardil it gave me all my side effects of 60 mg (even though I was on 45 mg) which I was like wtf. So I'd probably start at 30 mg this time and see if that's enough. I've never tried 30 mg.
Posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:20:26
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT? » gilmourr, posted by Hugh on January 15, 2013, at 17:57:04
> > By "new tms" are you talking about rTMS or repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation?
>
> Last week the FDA approved Deep TMS for depression. It's been available in Europe for three years. rTMS normally penetrates only about 1.5 cm into the brain. The newer Deep TMS, manufactured by Brainsway, penetrates 6 or 7 cm. It looks like it was just approved in Canada today.
>
> http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000814731&fid=1725Interesting. But I'm guessing the technology/equipment wouldn't be ready for months or even a year. I just don't have that time atm because I'm so frikken depressed.
It's basically either rTMS, magnetic seizure therapy or unilateral ECT. Or more drugs. But the only drug I want is nardil + something to augment its sh*tty cold intolerance! Why will no doctor work with me on this, F*CK
Posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:37:00
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by Zyprexa on January 15, 2013, at 22:22:49
> I have nothing good to say about ECT, except that it got me to take my meds.
>
> If anything I think it made me stupider. In one year I had about the max # of ECTs posible. About 3 a week for many weeks on two occasions. When I first got sick, I would not take my meds, I thought I didn't need them and that I was fine. But my psychosis got the better of me and they put me in the hospital where they gave me ECTs each time. My first hospital stay I can't remember much of, except for a lot of realy crazy dreams. They had me on meds and ect. I was not suicidal (from what I can remember)before ECT or after. Not realy sure what it did for my depression, because I don't remember. 15 years later and I don't have my memory back, and I think I may be a little brain damaged from it. The memory loss is great. I've had people tell me I did things which I have no memory of. Also when I was getting the ECTs I had a very active/distorted dream life. I honestly can't say much for ECT except that it made me stupid.Couldn't it be that the depression caused you to become slower mentally? I feel dramatically slower when I'm majorly depressed.
Posted by AlexCanada on January 16, 2013, at 7:02:53
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:17:39
> > Hi mate
> >
> > before you consider undergoing ECT, would you consider posting a list of which drugs you've tried, and what effect each had on your symptoms
> >
> > A few of us (especialy Mr SLS) might have some ideas that could help without going through ECT, which while it can be life saving in severe melancholic depression, could hardly be described as a fun experience
>
> More than glad to.
>
> Paxil - nothing @ 30 mg, 8 weeks
>
> Prozac - Side effect sh*t storm, vomiting, no go here
>
> Cipralex - 40% reduction in depression @ 20 mg, LOADS of insomnia, slept like 1 hour every 2 days. (8 weeks)
>
> Zoloft - No side effects or just mild GI symptoms, seemed to work on depression and anxiety as well as cipralex (best SSRI)
> (8-9 weeks)
>
> Nardil - F*ck*ng godly. This was almost remission, but I went to 60 mg and had bad mood swings so I came off it. When I went on 45 mg after 14 days being off it, it didn't work as well and I had more side effects. So this MAY be an option, I just think I need a break from it. (Also it gave me shivers and cold intolerance, if there's a way to get rid of this side effect it'd be PERFECT). (10-12 weeks)
>
> Remeron - Slept 14-16 hours a day, great AD, nothing for anxiety, massive acne out breaks. Overall its good but I felt like a retard on this as I couldn't think. 8 weeks at 7.5 mg (I know, 7.5 mg...)
>
> Effexor XR - High BP 165/125 and rising, stabbing chest pains, quit after 13 days. The chest pain was really bad. 75 mg
>
> Celexa - Awful sexual dysfunction, even worse insomnia than cipralex. I wanted to go to sleep so badly but just couldn't. 20-30 mg
>
> Parnate - Had a great AD response at 30 mg for 2 days, then it crashed. Then was hypothermic for 18 days straight. Freezing my *ss of so badly.
>
> Lamictal - It was looking promising, but I had breathing issues on it, I could hardly breathe. It was 24/7 and did not seem tied to anxiety.
>
>
> I want to go back on Nardil because it's godly, I just am waiting 2 months to see if the effect comes back. But I think it's too much norepinephrine. Though TWICE at 45 mg I had only constipation and it was working well. For some reason the 3rd time I tried Nardil it gave me all my side effects of 60 mg (even though I was on 45 mg) which I was like wtf. So I'd probably start at 30 mg this time and see if that's enough. I've never tried 30 mg.
>
>
>
>
>Have you tried lower doses of some of these meds? Nardil and Parnate in particular. Parnate was wonderful for me below 30mg regardless of what the 'studies' show. Going up to 30mg was pretty lousy.
Nardil is a miracle for many. You may want to strongly consider giving a particular dose more than a few weeks otherwise you may be dealing with withdrawal or other such issues from the previous dose. And you may want to start lower than moderate and high doses when it comes to meds in general.
With strong side effects it may be possible that you may have some med sensitivity. For some people low doses work wonders because even 20mg of Parnate is capable of having profound incredible effects in certain individuals. I was one such case.
Starting modest and increasing the dose if needed is better in most regards than starting off at a high dose.
Nardil 45-60mg could be terrible for someone while 30mg could be the magic number. it's better to try such options first before donating your brain to science. Old studies from the stone age don't tell the whole story of ECT.
Posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 12:08:00
In reply to Re: Gillmore » gilmourr, posted by AlexCanada on January 16, 2013, at 7:02:53
> > > Hi mate
> > >
> > > before you consider undergoing ECT, would you consider posting a list of which drugs you've tried, and what effect each had on your symptoms
> > >
> > > A few of us (especialy Mr SLS) might have some ideas that could help without going through ECT, which while it can be life saving in severe melancholic depression, could hardly be described as a fun experience
> >
> > More than glad to.
> >
> > Paxil - nothing @ 30 mg, 8 weeks
> >
> > Prozac - Side effect sh*t storm, vomiting, no go here
> >
> > Cipralex - 40% reduction in depression @ 20 mg, LOADS of insomnia, slept like 1 hour every 2 days. (8 weeks)
> >
> > Zoloft - No side effects or just mild GI symptoms, seemed to work on depression and anxiety as well as cipralex (best SSRI)
> > (8-9 weeks)
> >
> > Nardil - F*ck*ng godly. This was almost remission, but I went to 60 mg and had bad mood swings so I came off it. When I went on 45 mg after 14 days being off it, it didn't work as well and I had more side effects. So this MAY be an option, I just think I need a break from it. (Also it gave me shivers and cold intolerance, if there's a way to get rid of this side effect it'd be PERFECT). (10-12 weeks)
> >
> > Remeron - Slept 14-16 hours a day, great AD, nothing for anxiety, massive acne out breaks. Overall its good but I felt like a retard on this as I couldn't think. 8 weeks at 7.5 mg (I know, 7.5 mg...)
> >
> > Effexor XR - High BP 165/125 and rising, stabbing chest pains, quit after 13 days. The chest pain was really bad. 75 mg
> >
> > Celexa - Awful sexual dysfunction, even worse insomnia than cipralex. I wanted to go to sleep so badly but just couldn't. 20-30 mg
> >
> > Parnate - Had a great AD response at 30 mg for 2 days, then it crashed. Then was hypothermic for 18 days straight. Freezing my *ss of so badly.
> >
> > Lamictal - It was looking promising, but I had breathing issues on it, I could hardly breathe. It was 24/7 and did not seem tied to anxiety.
> >
> >
> > I want to go back on Nardil because it's godly, I just am waiting 2 months to see if the effect comes back. But I think it's too much norepinephrine. Though TWICE at 45 mg I had only constipation and it was working well. For some reason the 3rd time I tried Nardil it gave me all my side effects of 60 mg (even though I was on 45 mg) which I was like wtf. So I'd probably start at 30 mg this time and see if that's enough. I've never tried 30 mg.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Have you tried lower doses of some of these meds? Nardil and Parnate in particular. Parnate was wonderful for me below 30mg regardless of what the 'studies' show. Going up to 30mg was pretty lousy.
>
> Nardil is a miracle for many. You may want to strongly consider giving a particular dose more than a few weeks otherwise you may be dealing with withdrawal or other such issues from the previous dose. And you may want to start lower than moderate and high doses when it comes to meds in general.
>
> With strong side effects it may be possible that you may have some med sensitivity. For some people low doses work wonders because even 20mg of Parnate is capable of having profound incredible effects in certain individuals. I was one such case.
>
> Starting modest and increasing the dose if needed is better in most regards than starting off at a high dose.
>
> Nardil 45-60mg could be terrible for someone while 30mg could be the magic number. it's better to try such options first before donating your brain to science. Old studies from the stone age don't tell the whole story of ECT.Have not tried a lower dose of Parnate. Maybe I'll give that a shot one time down the road.
And for Nardil since my 1st trial I know to give each dose 6-8 weeks because like you said, it is really about finding that magic number.
Nardil may work again. I'm going to try magnetic seizure therapy, it's basically magnets used to induce a seizure and there seems to be very very minimal cognitive damage, if any. I'm looking through all the info I can find, but check it out and tell me if you agree.
I was thinking.. do MST and then add Nardil @ 15-30 mg.
Basically I will have been off Nardil for 2 months, so the resistance should be gone. Hopefully.BTW, what is your opinion of neurontin?
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 16, 2013, at 19:44:56
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:17:39
Sounds like Zoloft was quite kind to you, would you consider taking Zoloft along with either Nortriptyline or Welbutrin to optimise response?
I think it would be well worth a trial before submitting to ECT
Nortriptyline can also help anxirty (via 2HT2A receptors), Welbutrin can help with drive.
Posted by johnLA on January 16, 2013, at 21:46:12
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 12:08:00
g-
if you do the magnetic seizure therapy could you please keep us posted? i am very interested in this procedure. i have not seen it used, to my knowledge, out here in california yet.
good luck in whatever route you decide to take. i really hope you find some peace.
john
Posted by gilmourr on January 17, 2013, at 0:56:17
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 16, 2013, at 19:44:56
> Sounds like Zoloft was quite kind to you, would you consider taking Zoloft along with either Nortriptyline or Welbutrin to optimise response?
>
> I think it would be well worth a trial before submitting to ECT
>
> Nortriptyline can also help anxirty (via 2HT2A receptors), Welbutrin can help with drive.Yeah I would be open to nortryptiline, I actually already have the pills, I just never used them. I was going to augment it with Nardil but then realized I was getting too much norepinephrine already from Nardil.
The only thing is I'm booked for either rTMS or magnetic seizure therapy in < 30 days. I could go rTMS since it's not invasive but it's less effective... MST has been shown to not create that many cognitive side effects, but it still kinda scares me slightly. But the rates of remission/response are much better.
Basically I'm on Zoloft right now and have to keep my meds the same since I'm either getting rTMS or MST.
I was thinking of doing MST and then adding Nardil and hopefully that does it.
So I can't really add nortryptiline atm... unless I cancel the treatment. I'm in a predicament, but I think MST is the right option. The studies show barely any side effects and drugs haven't been that kind to me other than Nardil and Zoloft.
Even though I've only been through 12 (its a decent amount) I'm just so tired of the drug run around. I could be making a mistake but it's just... I've given drugs about 22 months to get me back in the game. And they have yet to get me in recovery.
Posted by gilmourr on January 17, 2013, at 1:03:58
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by johnLA on January 16, 2013, at 21:46:12
> g-
>
> if you do the magnetic seizure therapy could you please keep us posted? i am very interested in this procedure. i have not seen it used, to my knowledge, out here in california yet.
>
> good luck in whatever route you decide to take. i really hope you find some peace.
>
> johnYeah I'll definitely post how it goes.
This is the info I have on it atm.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12865903
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23080404
The only anecdotal thing that scares me is this..
One commentor said he haid pain issues after the procedure. But I'm not sure whether I trust the comment section, also, if I felt something like neuropathy I'd stop the treatments. I'm pretty good with telling when something feels really wrong.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 18, 2013, at 16:26:08
In reply to Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gilmourr on January 14, 2013, at 10:35:24
> I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
>
> Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
>
> So sick and tired of the pill game.Gilmourr, I so wish I could go back and do my research as you are doing before having ect. ect gave me memory problems, sure, they tell you about that. But they don't tell you it has negative cognitive effects, that it causes actual physical brain damage, that it usually does not work well, and when it does the effect only lasts for a month or so.
If I'd known these things I never would have done it. And in my case, it not only did not help, it made my depression and anxiety much, much worse.
Kat
Posted by gilmourr on January 18, 2013, at 16:42:52
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT? » gilmourr, posted by ChicagoKat on January 18, 2013, at 16:26:08
> > I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
> >
> > Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
> >
> > So sick and tired of the pill game.
>
> Gilmourr, I so wish I could go back and do my research as you are doing before having ect. ect gave me memory problems, sure, they tell you about that. But they don't tell you it has negative cognitive effects, that it causes actual physical brain damage, that it usually does not work well, and when it does the effect only lasts for a month or so.
>
> If I'd known these things I never would have done it. And in my case, it not only did not help, it made my depression and anxiety much, much worse.
> Kat
>
>The only thing that concerns me about this is that maybe because it didn't work, your depression is clouding your memory and cognitive functioning. Like I feel completely slower atm than when I was on Nardil or stable on Zoloft after weeks of being on it. I just don't know that ECT is to blame for your cognitive dysfunction.
Also quite a few journals have provided evidence that there is no brain damage involved in ECT.
Plus the remission rates are around 70%+ so it's quite possible that you were just really really unlucky. Isn't everyone technically who belongs to this forum?
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 21, 2013, at 8:03:56
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gilmourr on January 18, 2013, at 16:42:52
> > > I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
> > >
> > > Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
> > >
> > > So sick and tired of the pill game.
> >
> > Gilmourr, I so wish I could go back and do my research as you are doing before having ect. ect gave me memory problems, sure, they tell you about that. But they don't tell you it has negative cognitive effects, that it causes actual physical brain damage, that it usually does not work well, and when it does the effect only lasts for a month or so.
> >
> > If I'd known these things I never would have done it. And in my case, it not only did not help, it made my depression and anxiety much, much worse.
> > Kat
> >
> >
>
> The only thing that concerns me about this is that maybe because it didn't work, your depression is clouding your memory and cognitive functioning. Like I feel completely slower atm than when I was on Nardil or stable on Zoloft after weeks of being on it. I just don't know that ECT is to blame for your cognitive dysfunction.
>
> Also quite a few journals have provided evidence that there is no brain damage involved in ECT.
>
> Plus the remission rates are around 70%+ so it's quite possible that you were just really really unlucky. Isn't everyone technically who belongs to this forum?
>
>
Gilmourr, you may be right, at least partially, that my depression is clouding my memory and congnitive functioning. But when I replied to your post I was simply summing up data I had dug up from reputable, peer-reviewed journals. I was shocked to read in one such journal that IQ rates go down an average of 40-60pts. Scary! Hopefully that info comes from a not-so-reputable journal. How I wish I had saved the links to all the studies I mention. You are right; my depression does affect my concentration, so hopefully that result at least was quite off! I must say, however, that I found the ECT - decrease in cognitive ability connection in many, many journal articles. And this was all a year and a half after I had experienced ECT, and when I was much more stable emotionally,having found an excellent pdoc and being put on Ritalin. As far as the brain damage, I did find an article, again in a peer-reviewed journal of a study (double-blind, placebo controlled) done with rats which quite obviously showed that in the rats who received ECT there were pinpoint hemorrhages in their brains; the distribution really depended on exactly where the electrodes had been placed; and that the rats who had not undergone ECT had perfectly normal brains, grossly at any rate. I found this to be frightening; it made me think of all the people who have had ECT and continue to get maintenance therapy. How many ECT treatments would it take to cause not just a pinpoint hemorrhage, but a larger, much more significant hemorrhage?
Lastly, all I can say, now that it has been almost 2 years since I had ECT, I wish like you would not believe that I had never had it done. I'll be honest: the effects on cognition that I mentioned reading about I have not much noticed in myself. But I DO know that ECT not only did not help, it made my depression and anxiety much worse, and for some reason after ECT my meds no longer worked. It DID have one positive effect on me however, and this is really weird, but after ECT I discovered I had a revulstion for alcohol. I don't even want a glass of wine with dinner. Even the smell of alcohol makes my stomach upset. Which is definitely all a positive thing b/c I used to binge drink, once a week - it was one of my crutches. But no more, now I have a Babble crutch - and my liver is very happy about that!!!! :) And, now that I've written a book, to answer your original question: I have never, ever heard of ECT being anything but temporary. It is my understanding that those who do obtain relief generally have to have monthly maintenance treatments. Good luck Gilmourr :)
Kat
p.s. One last tidbit: I have a feeling that a lot of those high efficacy rates are somewhat suspect; absolutely every single person I've ever talked to, either here, or when I've been inpt in a hospital (3 admits) has said that it did nothing for them, or worse, like me, that it made their condition worse. Of course these are not scientific results, but they are interesting.
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 21, 2013, at 8:29:14
In reply to Re: Gillmore, posted by gilmourr on January 16, 2013, at 0:17:39
> Nardil - F*ck*ng godly. This was almost remission, but I went to 60 mg and had bad mood swings so I came off it. When I went on 45 mg after 14 days being off it, it didn't work as well and I had more side effects. So this MAY be an option, I just think I need a break from it. (Also it gave me shivers and cold intolerance, if there's a way to get rid of this side effect it'd be PERFECT). (10-12 weeks)
>
>
> I want to go back on Nardil because it's godly, I just am waiting 2 months to see if the effect comes back. But I think it's too much norepinephrine. Though TWICE at 45 mg I had only constipation and it was working well. For some reason the 3rd time I tried Nardil it gave me all my side effects of 60 mg (even though I was on 45 mg) which I was like wtf. So I'd probably start at 30 mg this time and see if that's enough. I've never tried 30 mg.
I've been on Nardil twice. The first time, as you said (at 60mg), all I can say is GODLY. I felt normal for the first time in decades. But then I started suffering falls, maybe ataxia? Def not orthostasis, I'm well aware of how to avoid that. Who knows. My pdoc took me off it; at this point we had lots of other options to try. Which all failed. :( So we try Nardil again, at a lower dose (45mg), and me with a cane lol. This time it did absolutely nothing for me, except perhaps to cause some anxiety. Which is really weird; Nardil is the King of anti-anxiety meds. It's almost as if Nardil will give you one shot, and one shot only, then forget about it. Weird.
Kat
>
>
>
>
Posted by gpznos on January 23, 2013, at 8:05:56
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT? » gilmourr, posted by AlexCanada on January 14, 2013, at 17:43:50
> > I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
> >
> > Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
> >
> > So sick and tired of the pill game.
>
> Don't buy the pathetic hype. ECT, MAOIs, RTMS, and more are all stated as solutions for when ''other'' options fail. And usually it's absolute nonsense except in the case of MAOI's.
>
> I had ECT and it destroyed my memory. I have antero grade memory loss and every single day I have to struggle with it. Aside from that my mind is not as bright as it once was.
>
> Brain damage is perminent. There are studies which showcase long term damage. Do not buy the rediculous hype that memory problems and other cognitive issues simply dissapear after a few months. It's nonsense.
>
> Don't make the mistake I did. This stone age treatment is a full frontal lobotomy disguised as a treatment.
>
> Sure, for a few people it may genuinely work but the price is far too high.
>
> If you ever dare commit to ECT prepare to commit to being dumber for the rest of your life. I wish I could turn back the clock but I can only attempt to make the best of what I have left.
>
> If you're running out options or grasping at straws (like I am) then try Rhodiola Rosea (works on day 1), or Licorice Root (proven to heal adrenal fatigue, depression and other health problems). Or pharma med #22...
>
>I have
Posted by gpznos on January 23, 2013, at 8:43:06
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gpznos on January 23, 2013, at 8:05:56
> > > I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
> > >
> > > Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
> > >
> > > So sick and tired of the pill game.
> >
> > Don't buy the pathetic hype. ECT, MAOIs, RTMS, and more are all stated as solutions for when ''other'' options fail. And usually it's absolute nonsense except in the case of MAOI's.
> >
> > I had ECT and it destroyed my memory. I have antero grade memory loss and every single day I have to struggle with it. Aside from that my mind is not as bright as it once was.
> >
> > Brain damage is perminent. There are studies which showcase long term damage. Do not buy the rediculous hype that memory problems and other cognitive issues simply dissapear after a few months. It's nonsense.
> >
> > Don't make the mistake I did. This stone age treatment is a full frontal lobotomy disguised as a treatment.
> >
> > Sure, for a few people it may genuinely work but the price is far too high.
> >
> > If you ever dare commit to ECT prepare to commit to being dumber for the rest of your life. I wish I could turn back the clock but I can only attempt to make the best of what I have left.
> >
> > If you're running out options or grasping at straws (like I am) then try Rhodiola Rosea (works on day 1), or Licorice Root (proven to heal adrenal fatigue, depression and other health problems). Or pharma med #22...
> >
> >
>
> I have
(I was formerly known under "hansi555")I have just gone through 12 x ECT bilateral treatments. In late November I was so depressed that my wife took me to the hospital, we were both afraid of what might happend - risk of suicide. It took the staff 2 weeks to convince me to go the ECT way.
I am quite sure that for me ECT is working to some degree and I could see that on the other ECT-patients as well. I was at the same time put on a much heavier dose of medicine: from 110 to 145 mg Noritren, from 0 to 750 mg Lithium Carb. + unchanged 15 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan.
I had the last treatment 10 days ago so it is to early to tell if there are perminent damages.
I have lost a lot of memories from the last 6 weeks and even stuff from the last year or so.
But older stuff I seem to remember as before.I live in Denmark and Danish doctors/operators are said to be among the most skilled when it comes to performing ECT. Could it be that the damages patients are exposed to is connected with the specific ETC-skills of the staff and their knowledge?
I will let you all know how it goes during the next couple of months. I am set to start working again in week 8.
My mood is now in a new state that I did not try before: I am never really sad or never really happy, sort of steady. Could this be the Lithium?
Posted by Phillipa on January 23, 2013, at 19:00:49
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gpznos on January 23, 2013, at 8:43:06
Glad to hear you are now doing well. Also that your recent lost memory returns quickly. Yes I feel would have something to do with the skill of the doctors. Phillipa
Posted by lindsey75 on January 24, 2013, at 9:33:29
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT? » gilmourr, posted by ChicagoKat on January 21, 2013, at 8:03:56
http://www.electroconvulsive-therapy.com/
I would seriously read that blog before doing it, plus the experience project and there is a lot of other patient written 1st person stories on ECT and not journals or any other possibly biased shite! The girl in the above blog registered the domain to journal her experience with ECT she ended up not even being able to write or type due to the cognitive deficits, she went from being deeply depressed and holding a job, to being deeply depressed and on disablity thanks to ECT. it is so sad to read her hopeful pre-ECT posts and then the one she writes after. PLEASE read a lot of personal experiences I have read literally hundreds they are out there. I also considered ECT out of desperation true desperation and reading several positive stories and journal articles but when I dug a lot deeper I was horrified literally horrified but what I read. A lot of people will respond by saying most people who write about their experiences will be the ones who had a bad experience but think about it if you were going to get a haircut and heard a lot of negative stories and some positive ones as well you would reconsider it I would think. I sure as hell would! And this is your brain! And its permanent! Sorry to be so preachy when you read the stories you will understand.
Posted by gpznos on January 24, 2013, at 10:11:57
In reply to Re: Anyone know people that have had ECT?, posted by gpznos on January 23, 2013, at 8:43:06
> > > > I'm looking into unilateral ECT. Has anyone had it done, or heard of others that used it?
> > > >
> > > > Can it provide permanent relief or is it 100% always temporary?
> > > >
> > > > So sick and tired of the pill game.
> > >
> > > Don't buy the pathetic hype. ECT, MAOIs, RTMS, and more are all stated as solutions for when ''other'' options fail. And usually it's absolute nonsense except in the case of MAOI's.
> > >
> > > I had ECT and it destroyed my memory. I have antero grade memory loss and every single day I have to struggle with it. Aside from that my mind is not as bright as it once was.
> > >
> > > Brain damage is perminent. There are studies which showcase long term damage. Do not buy the rediculous hype that memory problems and other cognitive issues simply dissapear after a few months. It's nonsense.
> > >
> > > Don't make the mistake I did. This stone age treatment is a full frontal lobotomy disguised as a treatment.
> > >
> > > Sure, for a few people it may genuinely work but the price is far too high.
> > >
> > > If you ever dare commit to ECT prepare to commit to being dumber for the rest of your life. I wish I could turn back the clock but I can only attempt to make the best of what I have left.
> > >
> > > If you're running out options or grasping at straws (like I am) then try Rhodiola Rosea (works on day 1), or Licorice Root (proven to heal adrenal fatigue, depression and other health problems). Or pharma med #22...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I have
> (I was formerly known under "hansi555")
>
> I have just gone through 12 x ECT bilateral treatments. In late November I was so depressed that my wife took me to the hospital, we were both afraid of what might happend - risk of suicide. It took the staff 2 weeks to convince me to go the ECT way.
>
> I am quite sure that for me ECT is working to some degree and I could see that on the other ECT-patients as well. I was at the same time put on a much heavier dose of medicine: from 110 to 145 mg Noritren, from 0 to 750 mg Lithium Carb. + unchanged 15 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan.
>
> I had the last treatment 10 days ago so it is to early to tell if there are perminent damages.
> I have lost a lot of memories from the last 6 weeks and even stuff from the last year or so.
> But older stuff I seem to remember as before.
>
> I live in Denmark and Danish doctors/operators are said to be among the most skilled when it comes to performing ECT. Could it be that the damages patients are exposed to is connected with the specific ETC-skills of the staff and their knowledge?
>
> I will let you all know how it goes during the next couple of months. I am set to start working again in week 8.
>
> My mood is now in a new state that I did not try before: I am never really sad or never really happy, sort of steady. Could this be the Lithium?I just read today that some places they use ECT equipment that is not technically in order/outdated. This could be another explanation to why some people get damaged.
The question is then how to make sure that the ECT equipment is in a safe and modern state...
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.