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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 8:54:39
In reply to Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 1:23:02
Bryn I didn't realize that it could be related to lithium. I tend to agree with you. Have you searched lithium for strange side effects? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 17:49:39
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 8:54:39
> Bryn I didn't realize that it could be related to lithium. I tend to agree with you. Have you searched lithium for strange side effects? Phillipa
Where would one find information about strange side effects of lithium?
Thyrotoxicity induced by chronic use of high dosages of lithium is not an uncommon occurrence, unfortunately. However, it is dosage-dependent and time-dependent. Although high dosages of lithium are necessary to exert antimanic and mood stabilizing effects in bipolar disorder, low dosages retain the neuroprotective and neurotrophic effects, and can act to augment antidepressants when treating unipolar depressive disorders. Low dosages (150 mg/day) of lithium might also prevent or retard the development of Alzheimer's Dementia; a disease for which depressive disorders increase the risk of occurrence by a factor of 3. This is the main reason why I continue to take lithium 300 mg/day. I might attempt to lower the dosage to 150 mg/day, but this dosage is generally too low to have an antidepressant effect.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 18:04:54
In reply to Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 1:23:02
For some people, lithium comes with some pretty crappy side effects. Perhaps it is not the right drug for you.
- Scott
Posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 18:49:06
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 18:04:54
> For some people, lithium comes with some pretty crappy side effects. Perhaps it is not the right drug for you.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Scott,
Is it possible that lithium caused my weight gain over the past six months despite me NOT eating any more than usual (rather, like I said, it's made me eat less)?
And, the acute edema I thought I just recovered from feels like it's coming back again, at least in my ankles. My regular doctor has me on a diuretic and I'm back on an antibiotic too because I'm developing bronchitis. My pdoc told me to stop the lithium for now and see what happens. Physically, I'm feeling awful, yet oddly, I'm doing ok mood and anxiety-wise, which scares me, as I worry that the other shoe will drop when I'm doing ok. (Unfortunately, this is what my past experience has shown.)
I guess I have to wait this one out.
Thanks,
b
Posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 19:54:26
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » SLS, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 18:49:06
> > For some people, lithium comes with some pretty crappy side effects. Perhaps it is not the right drug for you.
> Is it possible that lithium caused my weight gain over the past six months despite me NOT eating any more than usual (rather, like I said, it's made me eat less)?Yup. It occurs quite often. It is inexplicable why some people gain weight and others don't. Of course, thyroid status must be considered.
> And, the acute edema I thought I just recovered from feels like it's coming back again, at least in my ankles.Yup. Another known side effect. I wouldn't know how to remedy it, though. One study of 237 patients reported edema occurring in 10% of them. That's pretty high.
Have you tried Lamictal?
Some people with bipolar depression respond to a combination of Lamictal and Abilify.
How do you react to Wellbutrin?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 20:24:45
In reply to Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 1:23:02
So you are not bipolar? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 20:31:39
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 17:49:39
I wonder why NAMI says bipolar? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 20:37:21
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » Phillipa, posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 17:49:39
Seems the only neuroprotective studies I can find are using with bipolar disorder. I'm guessing they exist just can't find them. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 20:44:40
In reply to Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 1:23:02
Four in a row broke the rule of 3 posts. But it could be the lithium. Phillipa
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/lithium_000290.htm
Posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 10:59:45
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by SLS on December 18, 2012, at 19:54:26
Thanks, Scott.
Wellbutrin make me too anxious and doesn't help the depression. Lamictal makes me depressed, and I never gave Abilify a fair shake, though I typically don't do well with APs.
As far as lithium goes, it makes perfect sense as to why I've gained so much weight over the past 6 months without changing my diet. And it also makes sense that it could be causing edema; my docs have no clue as to why I would have acute edema when my blood tests and scans were all totally normal.
I've mentioned it before, but I'm not really sure whether I have MDD or Bipolar. Depression is always my worst symptom, and I was counting on lithium to prevent episodes.
I'm really running out of options here...
Thanks again for your input and I hope you're still doing well :).
-b
Posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 11:04:35
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by Phillipa on December 18, 2012, at 20:44:40
> Four in a row broke the rule of 3 posts. But it could be the lithium. Phillipa
>
>
> http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/lithium_000290.htmThanks, Phillipa! I couldn't find much, but it makes sense to me.
I'm not sure if I have Bipolar or if it's MDD. My pdoc isn't sure either, and he's not quick to label, which is good.Thanks again :).
b
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 18:37:52
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » Phillipa, posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 11:04:35
Bryn you are welcome. So will you continue with lithium or stop it or switch to another mood stabalizer? Phillipa
Posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 19:54:13
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 18:37:52
> Bryn you are welcome. So will you continue with lithium or stop it or switch to another mood stabalizer? Phillipa
I honestly have no idea right now. I prefer really streamlined combos, like 3 or less, and I've run out of a lot of choices, so I intend to keep things as is (just dropping lithium) and hope for the best.
So I'm stopping the lithium (my pdoc told me to just stop--I was on a very low dose). I'm not taking on any new meds right now, mood stabilizers or other. I've been physically sick and exhausted, and I'm on a diuretic and antibiotic.
And I'm trying to stay positive and just be well.
-b
Posted by SLS on December 19, 2012, at 20:06:24
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » SLS, posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 10:59:45
> Thanks, Scott.
>
> Wellbutrin make me too anxious and doesn't help the depression. Lamictal makes me depressed, and I never gave Abilify a fair shake, though I typically don't do well with APs.What is it about APs that you find problematic?
There is growing interest in using Latuda (lurasidone) as a treatment for depression. I believe it is unique among APs in its ability to block 5-HT7 receptors. My impression is that it is less likely than Abilify to produce anxiety or akathisia.
You might consider using Trileptal (oxcarbazepine) as a mood-stabilizer. It can work well to manage mania and mixed-states, usually without causing depression. 600 mg/day is a pretty good dose. You would just need to check your sodium levels from time to time. Although infrequent, Trileptal can produce hyponatremia (low blood sodium).
> I'm really running out of options here...
I hope people here offer you options that you have not yet considered.
> Thanks again for your input and I hope you're still doing well :).
Thanks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on December 19, 2012, at 21:55:26
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » Phillipa, posted by brynb on December 19, 2012, at 19:54:13
Bryn you must feel really horrible. Since depression I guess this would be wise for now. Any closer to figuring out what caused the bloating and edema? Antibiotic which one? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:05:06
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » brynb, posted by SLS on December 19, 2012, at 20:06:24
> There is growing interest in using Latuda (lurasidone) as a treatment for depression. I believe it is unique among APs in its ability to block 5-HT7 receptors.
I just found out from Jono_in_adelaide that Risperdal is a potent antagonist of 5-HT7 receptors. I am a little concerned about this blockade as being irreversible, but perhaps this won't be a problem at very low dosages.
Clinical trials of Latuda for depression have been very encouraging.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on December 20, 2012, at 9:43:10
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:05:06
Hello,
i wanna try lithium extended release at 100 mg for neurotrophic/protective effects and for temper control/mild antidepressant.
In the morning.
Further wanna get back on Lamotrigine 125mg.
Good idea?
Posted by brynb on December 20, 2012, at 10:41:02
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:05:06
Thanks for the info Scott. How are the side effects with Latuda? I'm petite and a lot of meds make me blow up which is depressing in itself.
My main concern is preventing depressive episodes. Lexapro helps me on a daily basis, but it doesn't prevent me from having episodes. Does Latuda help ward off these episodes? Does it help with mood swings? How does its ability to block 5-HT7 receptors help? (I don't know much about APs.) I took Invega several years ago and I think I responded well to it. Does that have significance?
-b
Posted by brynb on December 20, 2012, at 10:45:08
In reply to Wanna try Lithium @ 100 or 150, posted by Lamdage22 on December 20, 2012, at 9:43:10
> Hello,
>
> i wanna try lithium extended release at 100 mg for neurotrophic/protective effects and for temper control/mild antidepressant.
>Hi,
That sounds reasonable, but is it really still therapeutic at that low of a dose?
Thanks for the input.
Posted by brynb on December 20, 2012, at 18:08:21
In reply to Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by brynb on December 18, 2012, at 1:23:02
Does anyone know?
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on December 20, 2012, at 18:16:29
In reply to When will lithium be out of my system?, posted by brynb on December 20, 2012, at 18:08:21
Bryn I just read 5 days. Not sure if depends on dose though? Phillipa
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 20, 2012, at 21:06:44
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 7:05:06
There have been some pretty encouraging trials of risperidone as an add on to antidepressant therapy in cases where an antidepressant alone hasnt worked - the blockade of 5HT2a, HT2c and HT7 receptors is the presumed mechanism of actuion at these doseages (0.5-1.5mg/day, avg 1mg)
It has also been shown to be a usefull adjunct to SSRI's in panic disorder, generalised anxiety and OCD
I personaly have found it very helpful.
Posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 22:40:39
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 20, 2012, at 21:06:44
> There have been some pretty encouraging trials of risperidone as an add on to antidepressant therapy in cases where an antidepressant alone hasnt worked - the blockade of 5HT2a, HT2c and HT7 receptors is the presumed mechanism of actuion at these doseages (0.5-1.5mg/day, avg 1mg)
>
> It has also been shown to be a usefull adjunct to SSRI's in panic disorder, generalised anxiety and OCD
>
> I personaly have found it very helpful.
I responded to the addition of Risperdal 0.5 mg/day to Parnate for about a week. The first two days were not fun, though. It made me more depressed and sedated. It felt pretty yucky. By day 3, these things disappeared and were replaced by a mild improvement. I remember feeling well enough to go out on a date. After I relapsed, increasing the dosage of Risperdal did not help.Off topic:
It occurred to me that, if it weren't for the weight-gain, combining Nardil and Zyprexa might make for an effective treatment for depression, mixed states, GAD, and possibly panic disorder. I doubt it would help with OCD, though. Of course, this probably wouldn't be of much help to people who react to Zyprexa by sleeping all day long.
- Scott
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 21, 2012, at 17:44:36
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me?? » jono_in_adelaide, posted by SLS on December 20, 2012, at 22:40:39
yes, I felt a bit of that antihistamine drowsiness for the first 2 days on 1mg, but it soon passed. Zyprexa is meant to be much more sedating than risperidone, I dont think I'd be too keen on that
Posted by SLS on December 21, 2012, at 18:34:20
In reply to Re: Is Lithium Catching Up To Me??, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 21, 2012, at 17:44:36
> yes, I felt a bit of that antihistamine drowsiness for the first 2 days on 1mg, but it soon passed. Zyprexa is meant to be much more sedating than risperidone, I dont think I'd be too keen on that
I don't know what you mean by "meant to". Was the molecule designed to be that way? They can do that sort of thing now. For me, Zyprexa was more energizing than it was sedating. I was genuinely not aware that Zyprexa was considered to be so globally sedating.
- Scott
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