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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 1:41:08
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 24, 2012, at 0:32:24
When I was 17, I had a headache, so I took 2 Advil. I still get headaches now.
Its suddenly become clear that taking 2 Advil when I was 18 caused me to have headaches my entire life.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 2:13:36
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 1:41:08
Sorry, that was a stupid post.... I'm sorry you're still ill, but i would realy encourgae you to focus on getting better rather than focusing on the drugs having somehow changed your brain.
Posted by poser938 on September 24, 2012, at 2:44:38
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 1:41:08
i do think i am about done with posting anything about myself on this site anymore.
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2012, at 10:51:54
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 24, 2012, at 2:44:38
> i do think i am about done with posting anything about myself on this site anymore.
Don't let my stupid posts turn you off. I didn't mean to attack you. You were only the messenger. It was the message that I took issue with.
I hope you continue to post here.
I think that most people here mean well and are concerned with your welfare.
Man, am I sleepy. Time for a nap.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by Nootril on September 24, 2012, at 14:08:09
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by Nootril on September 23, 2012, at 23:49:27
I have spoken today with Paul Andrews who is from the department of Psychology,Neuroscience and behaviour.He was busy with someone at the time but told me I could email him with my history and Intro.He has offered to speak with me further on the phone and refer me with a good friend of his who has vast experience and knowledge in the area of psychotropic drugs.Hopefully he can help tailor a protocol for my attention problems, apathy, anergia as a result of my left caudate lesion.
Oh! did I mention I live in Ontario :)
If anyone wants certain questions asked re: the article, feel free to post and I will wait to put them in my email to Paul Andrews.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 18:51:41
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by Nootril on September 24, 2012, at 14:08:09
To my mind, the fairly dramatic drop in the suicide rate that occured around 1960 (When imipramine and phenelzine were introduced into psychiatry) suggests that the antidepressant drugs do far more good than they do harm.
I think that the thresholds for prescribing such drugs have probably dropped too low (particularly in north america?), doctors seem to be starting to prescribe them for anyone who is unhappy or dissatisfied with life, but these drugs when prescribed properly can be life saving or life changing, releasing people from the grip of crippling depression, anxiety and OCD, and preventing suicide
Posted by phillipa on September 24, 2012, at 19:05:12
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by Nootril on September 23, 2012, at 23:49:27
No no not discontinuing the luvox. It has a grip on me. Please is there a way to get the full article on luvox. I've been looking for something scientific that is positive to remain on this med. My babblemail is open. Phillipa
Posted by Nootril on September 24, 2012, at 19:12:36
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » Nootril, posted by phillipa on September 24, 2012, at 19:05:12
> No no not discontinuing the luvox. It has a grip on me. Please is there a way to get the full article on luvox. I've been looking for something scientific that is positive to remain on this med. My babblemail is open. Phillipa
Phillipa sure No problem! How do you find it on cognition,sleep, weight gain and sexual effects?
Will send now in cut and paste to your Babble-mail :)
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2012, at 20:56:51
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by jono_in_adelaide on September 24, 2012, at 18:51:41
> To my mind, the fairly dramatic drop in the suicide rate that occured around 1960 (When imipramine and phenelzine were introduced into psychiatry) suggests that the antidepressant drugs do far more good than they do harm.
>
> I think that the thresholds for prescribing such drugs have probably dropped too lowI agree. Doctors are doing a disservice to people who have psychobiological mental illnesses by treating with drugs anyone who uses the word "depression" as a complaint. These treatments were never designed or studied to treat their condition specifically. Is minor depression just a mild presentation of MDD? Is mild depression and severe depression simply two degrees of the same illness? I don't think so. That is why I believe that the way clinical trials of antidepressants are currently conducted, a high placebo response rate will be observed. These studies recruit people with mild depression as well as those with severe depression. When biomarkers are identified and used to diagnose MDD, I think we will see that antidepressants are much more effective to treat this illness than previously thought.
- Scott
Posted by phillipa on September 24, 2012, at 21:09:31
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by Nootril on September 24, 2012, at 19:12:36
Got it and replied thanks. No weight gain, anxiety at times hurts cognition, as for sex since menopause not much interest there. Phillipa
Posted by Nootril on September 24, 2012, at 21:22:42
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » Nootril, posted by phillipa on September 24, 2012, at 21:09:31
> Got it and replied thanks. No weight gain, anxiety at times hurts cognition, as for sex since menopause not much interest there. Phillipa
Hmm really? With regards to compromised cognition what areas do you feel are mostly effected, is it attention, concentration and focus, working memory >> Acquisition, retention and retrieval.Is your processing of new information and problem solving skills also compromised ?
Posted by poser938 on September 25, 2012, at 10:36:49
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by SLS on September 24, 2012, at 10:51:54
No, SLS i can understand where you are coming from. you're pretty cool. but i realized this website is for people who haven't had a situation like mine. anytime someone talks about having long term effects from a medication it is easy for a doc or a say something like "oh that is just your condition getting worse and not from the medicine"
heck, it took how many years to put the suicide warning on antidepressants!? and when prozac first came out it was thought of as the "wonder drug" and sent antidepressants mainstream. i'm sure when a patient was prescribed this new wonder drug that when going to a psychiatrist complaining of worsening depression after starting it,, the psychiatrist upped the dose, making the person feel worse and maybe pushing the person to do suicide.
people just shrug off serious situation like this.. and like mine. i have been looked at with so much suspicion when i mention a med affecting me permanently, and i am thanking God now that i have finally found a psychiatrist that takes my situation seriously. if i hadn't found her i would probably be dead right now.
i mention how i felt before taking antidepressants and how i felt a bit after starting them because i figure people would pick up on the mood change that occurred. and then this never goes away. i have experienced this effect too many times when taking a medication, and i do believe i would bean idiot if i didnt figure this out. but then i am treated like i dont know what i am talking about by doctors and by people on this site.
i still plan on posting on this site, but just nothing about myself. i have other sites and even YahooAnswers where i get much more relevant from others.
Posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 0:25:47
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 25, 2012, at 10:36:49
> No, SLS i can understand where you are coming from. you're pretty cool. but i realized this website is for people who haven't had a situation like mine. anytime someone talks about having long term effects from a medication it is easy for a doc or a say something like "oh that is just your condition getting worse and not from the medicine"
I must say that if this were ten years ago, I would have been very skeptical - perhaps unbelieving - that anyone could experience the things that you describe. However, over time, after encountering so many self-reports, reviewing my own treatment history with psychotropic drugs, and using a little logic, I have come to believe that what you describe is very real.
I think I wrote something on the board the other day to the effect that today's minority opinion often becomes tomorrow's majority consensus. Of course, in some instances, the minority opinion will encounter resistance, and even disdain. For this reason, I try to keep an open mind. I don't always succeed, though.
I could be wrong, but I think you have encountered some resistance, but no disdain. I see that some people are trying to be genuinely helpful by reminding us that there are times when the symptoms of the depressive illness are confused for residual drug-induced adverse effects. Some day, this debate will reach its terminus when science provides the evidence that the brain can be persistently and permanently changed by exposure to psychotropic drugs. Of course, such can be desirable or undesirable, depending on the treatment goal.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 1:09:55
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 0:25:47
It occurs to me that there is a well-known drug that produces persistent psychobiological effects long after it is discontinued: lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). LSD is predominantly a serotonin receptor agonist (stimulator). It effects many receptors, but it is its stimulating the serotonin 5-HT2a receptor that is regarded as producing hallucinations. I imagine that this is modified to some degree by the ability of LSD to affect dopamine and norepineprine receptors along with producing glutamate release.
LSD does a lot of stuff.
- Scott-----------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Pharmacodynamics
"Pharmacodynamics
LSD affects a large number of the G protein coupled receptors, including all dopamine receptor subtypes, and all adrenoreceptor subtypes, as well as many others. LSD binds to most serotonin receptor subtypes except for 5-HT3 and 5-HT4. However, most of these receptors are affected at too low affinity to be sufficiently activated by the brain concentration of approximately 1020 nM.[79] In humans, recreational doses of LSD can affect 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, 5-HT2C, 5-HT5A, and 5-HT6 receptors.[1][80] 5-HT5B receptors, which are not present in humans, also have a high affinity for LSD.[81] The psychedelic effects of LSD are attributed to its strong partial agonist effects at 5-HT2A receptors as specific 5-HT2A agonists are psychedelics and largely 5-HT2A specific antagonists block the psychedelic activity of LSD.[79] Exactly how this produces the drug's effects is unknown, but it is thought that it works by increasing glutamate release in the cerebral cortex and therefore excitation in this area, specifically in layers IV and V.[82] LSD, like many other drugs, has been shown to activate DARPP-32-related pathways.[83]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Flashbacks_and_HPPD
"Flashbacks" are a reported psychological phenomenon in which an individual experiences an episode of some of LSD's subjective effects long after the drug has worn off, usually in the days after typical doses. In some rarer cases, flashbacks have lasted longer, but are generally short-lived and mild compared to the actual LSD "trip"
"Although flashbacks themselves are not recognized as a medical syndrome, there is a recognized syndrome called Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD) in which LSD-like visual changes are not temporary and brief, as they are in flashbacks, but instead are persistent, and cause clinically significant impairment or distress. The syndrome is a DSM-IV diagnosis. Several scientific journal articles have described the disorder"
---------------------------------------------------
Perhaps it is not so difficult to imagine SSRIs as being capable of producing persistent adverse effects long after their discontinuation.
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 13:09:36
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 1:09:55
interesting.
the only non FDA apporved substance ive ever taken is marijuana. only about 2 puffs from it about 5 years ago.
Posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 13:32:09
In reply to Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by Nootril on September 23, 2012, at 17:06:30
CRAAAAAAP Study.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 13:42:45
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 1:09:55
Posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 13:45:59
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 24, 2012, at 0:17:44
Its all in your head.
Eric
Posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 14:09:48
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 13:45:59
f*ck yeah it is all in my head isn't it? things just keep getting worse. i'm going to be killing myself here soon. f*ck you you sorry piece of sh*t. i'm sure i will get banned froom this site for this but i dont care. you are such a sorry person.
Posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 14:32:26
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 14:09:48
Feeling angry, are we? I thought you couldn't feel emotions...
Eric
Posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 15:41:42
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 14:32:26
feeling suicidal is what it is. feeling as bad as i am and hearing it is in my head makes me want to kill myself.
Posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 15:45:17
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 14:32:26
keep it coming, Eric. i'm just wanting something to push me over the edge and end my life. i want to lose control and jump in front of a transfer truck. or maybe find a nice bridge to jump off. this is what i want.
Posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 16:05:28
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ? » poser938, posted by phidippus on September 26, 2012, at 14:32:26
come on Eric. you know how i react after I'm told that. now be the big man you are and finish what you started. say what't on your mind. tell me it all because i want to hear it.
Posted by SLS on September 26, 2012, at 16:49:34
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 16:05:28
If you are going to commit suicide, then do it for you and not for someone else. You are stronger than that.
I don't want to seem mean or heartless. I care about you and your welfare. There is very little I can do from here but to encourage you to remain alive and keep working towards recovery from mental illness. However, it would be tragic if any one person had that much power over you that taking your life would be your response to them.
Slow down a bit. Rest for awhile. I recommend that you either call your doctor or call a crisis center. Quite simply said, you are in crisis. More often than not, such crisis mental states resolve. I don't know how long yours will last, but you might feel very different about things in the coming days.
Two national suicide hotlines:
1-800-273-8255 - 1-800-273-TALK
1-800-784-2433 - 1-800-SUICIDE
Website:http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on September 27, 2012, at 16:57:18
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants do more Harm than good ?, posted by poser938 on September 26, 2012, at 16:05:28
First off, you need to listen to people on here. You haven't suffered brain damage from drugs you were on. Your symptoms are due to illness, nothing more.
Eric
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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