Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on April 5, 2012, at 15:25:58
This is an article examining the potential of some drugs to produce or make worse depression.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181967/
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on April 7, 2012, at 18:23:17
In reply to Depressogenic effects of medications., posted by SLS on April 5, 2012, at 15:25:58
They failed to add antidepressants to the list.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on April 8, 2012, at 6:24:25
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications., posted by linkadge on April 7, 2012, at 18:23:17
> They failed to add antidepressants to the list.
That is an unfortunate oversight. Perhaps they were not prepared to deal with the paradox. Still, I think that the article is useful.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 8, 2012, at 18:14:54
In reply to Depressogenic effects of medications., posted by SLS on April 5, 2012, at 15:25:58
Hey Scott, in your experience, have you achieved more mood stability on two mood-stabilizers? My doc wants to add trileptal because the dose of Viibryd I'm on is causing some mood instability. Does this work?
Eric
Posted by SLS on April 8, 2012, at 22:42:05
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » SLS, posted by phidippus on April 8, 2012, at 18:14:54
> Hey Scott, in your experience, have you achieved more mood stability on two mood-stabilizers? My doc wants to add trileptal because the dose of Viibryd I'm on is causing some mood instability. Does this work?
>
> Eric
It is hard for me be certain enough to answer your question with any sense of confidence. Lamictal acts more as an antidepressant than a mood stabilizer for me. It is lithium that has reduced the variability in mood that I had experienced diurnally and throughout the week. It is helpful to look at combining "mood-stabilizers" as one would look at combining antidepressants. Ideally, each drug in a polypharmaceutical regime should fill a different role clinically that is a reflection of complementary pharmacology. Trileptal is a good drug to reduce aggression and impulsivity. I found it somewhat energizing and very clean with respect to physical and cognitive side effects. I did not find it depressogenic at all. Nor did it produce amotivation or passivity. Since it did not produce a perceptible improvement in my depression, I set it aside.I guess the bottom line for me is that it is not productive to use the term "mood-stabilizer" to pigeon-hole drugs as if they were all alike and redundant if combined.
I wish I could be more helpful. I will be very interested to see how you react to the addition of Trileptal. I hope it works.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 9, 2012, at 16:37:50
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by SLS on April 8, 2012, at 22:42:05
I'm basicslly cycling in the depressed and its just a little bit so. I feel very sad for no reason, then I'll feel normal, then I'll feel irritable for no reason. And that's about it. I don't like how sad I get and I'm hoping the trileptal will smooth these things out.
What about just upping my LLatuda?
Eric
Posted by SLS on April 10, 2012, at 7:45:37
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » SLS, posted by phidippus on April 9, 2012, at 16:37:50
> I'm basicslly cycling in the depressed and its just a little bit so. I feel very sad for no reason, then I'll feel normal, then I'll feel irritable for no reason. And that's about it. I don't like how sad I get and I'm hoping the trileptal will smooth these things out.
>
> What about just upping my LLatuda?It would be a quick and easy thing to do. I would try it, as long as you are not exceeding the recommended maximum dosage. I know OCD requires higher dosages of SSRIs than those required to treat depression. Perhaps the same is true of Latuda.
For me, lithium 300 mg has smoothed things out. Previous to its addition, I experienced a more variable course of depressed mood, both diurnally and weekly. Trileptal is certainly worth trying first if you are resistant to using low-dosage lithium. Trileptal gave me a perceptible increase in energy, but not enough to add it permanently. I found Trileptal to be cognitively "clean". The only thing you need to watch for is hyponatremia.
What about memantine?
I'm sure you'll figure it out.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 10, 2012, at 16:12:57
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by SLS on April 10, 2012, at 7:45:37
High dosages are needed of both my SSRI and my Latuda.
I'm just hoping the Trileptal helps with these depressive swings.
I found Memantine only useful at 60 mg, which is triple the dosage recommended.
Eric
Posted by sigismund on April 11, 2012, at 15:34:58
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » SLS, posted by phidippus on April 10, 2012, at 16:12:57
>I found Memantine only useful at 60 mg
So that gave you insomnia (I guess) but improved your OCD?
What did it feel like?
What do you think of the idea that memantine can help with opiate withdrawal?
Posted by SLS on April 11, 2012, at 17:05:14
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by sigismund on April 11, 2012, at 15:34:58
> >I found Memantine only useful at 60 mg
>
> So that gave you insomnia (I guess) but improved your OCD?
>
> What did it feel like?
>
> What do you think of the idea that memantine can help with opiate withdrawal?
Topiramate might be worth taking a look at. Perhaps combining topiramate with memantine would work better than either drug alone. Each inhibits a different subtype of glutamate receptor.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 11, 2012, at 19:52:46
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications., posted by SLS on April 11, 2012, at 17:05:14
I found Zonegran a better option than Topomax. I wouldn't bother with the MEmantine.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on April 11, 2012, at 19:56:10
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by sigismund on April 11, 2012, at 15:34:58
Actually, the Mementine didn't effect my sleep at all.
d
It felt a little more relaxed, as it actually reduced the OCD.I've seen some studies that show Mementine perforrmed as well as placebo for opiate withdrawal.
Eric
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 23, 2012, at 8:08:02
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » SLS, posted by phidippus on April 10, 2012, at 16:12:57
> I found Memantine only useful at 60 mg, which is triple the dosage recommended.
>I've seen people taking 30-40mg for stimulant tolerance. What did 60mg do for you that lower doses didn't?
Also, what was your titration schedule like and how long did you have to wait for (cognitive) side-effects to pass?
Just curious because I'm about to order some. I remember being very impatient re: the cognitive stuff last time and abandoning the trial too quickly, even though it was helping my anxiety.
Posted by phidippus on April 23, 2012, at 15:58:01
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 23, 2012, at 8:08:02
i WENt from 20 mgs to 60 mgs over the course of three days.
At 60 mgs, Namenda actually helped with my anxiety, where as at lower doses it did nothing.
I didn't have much in the way of side-effects.
Eric
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 23, 2012, at 22:50:47
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » g_g_g_unit, posted by phidippus on April 23, 2012, at 15:58:01
> i WENt from 20 mgs to 60 mgs over the course of three days.
>
> At 60 mgs, Namenda actually helped with my anxiety, where as at lower doses it did nothing.
>
> I didn't have much in the way of side-effects.
>
> EricThanks for the info.
Any help with OCD, or just anxiety?
Did it alter (for the better..) the effect of any stimulant (Vyvanse?) you're on?
Are you taking it at the moment?
Posted by phidippus on April 26, 2012, at 15:29:03
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 23, 2012, at 22:50:47
Memantine provided benefit only at the highest dosage I tried(60 mg): then it benefited my OCD and the anxiety associated with it.
I felt more focused on it.
I am taking it now.
Eric
Posted by g_g_g_unit on April 26, 2012, at 23:57:23
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » g_g_g_unit, posted by phidippus on April 26, 2012, at 15:29:03
> Memantine provided benefit only at the highest dosage I tried(60 mg): then it benefited my OCD and the anxiety associated with it.
>
> I felt more focused on it.
>
> I am taking it now.
>
> EricThanks for the information. It's a pity -- there's several people here who tried it at 20mg, but gave up due to a lack of results.
Posted by SLS on April 27, 2012, at 5:41:17
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 26, 2012, at 23:57:23
> > Memantine provided benefit only at the highest dosage I tried(60 mg): then it benefited my OCD and the anxiety associated with it.
> >
> > I felt more focused on it.
> >
> > I am taking it now.
> >
> > Eric
>
> Thanks for the information. It's a pity -- there's several people here who tried it at 20mg, but gave up due to a lack of results.I was one of those people. If I get "stuck", I might make memantine 40 mg the next thing for me to try. Interestingly, when I tried it last at 20 mg, I had also been taking Parnate as I am now. I remember having episodic mild improvements during this time, which is an unusual occurrence for me when drugs aren't working.
I am also considering using Topamax at a dosage of 100 mg if my response plateaus. I am able to avoid cognitive impairments with Topamax if I begin at 25 mg/day and raise the dosage by 25 mg each week. Returning to a few partially effective drug makes sense for me, as I wasn't taking prazosin at the time.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 30, 2012, at 21:48:01
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » g_g_g_unit, posted by SLS on April 27, 2012, at 5:41:17
Why not try Zonegran before you go down the ppathh welll traveled.
Eric
Posted by phidippus on April 30, 2012, at 21:49:43
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by g_g_g_unit on April 26, 2012, at 23:57:23
Insurance doesn't cover higher doses than 20 mg. Which is a slight problem.
Try cycloserin while you're at it
Eric
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 22:24:25
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » SLS, posted by phidippus on April 30, 2012, at 21:48:01
Hi Eric.
> Why not try Zonegran before you go down the ppathh welll traveled.
That's not a bad idea. Unfortunately, Zonegran did not help with depression, although I noticed it reduced my appetite. I did not experience any cognitive side effects with this drug. I didn't stay with it for very long - four weeks, I think. I can become very impatient at times.
Thanks for thinking of me. You never know when one of your ideas will hit the target for me.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 22:27:09
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications., posted by phidippus on April 30, 2012, at 21:49:43
> Insurance doesn't cover higher doses than 20 mg. Which is a slight problem.
>
> Try cycloserin while you're at itI have seen people talk about cycloserine in the past, but I know nothing about it. How might it help me?
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on April 30, 2012, at 23:00:57
In reply to Re: Depressogenic effects of medications. » phidippus, posted by SLS on April 30, 2012, at 22:27:09
Cicloserin is a powerful NMDA antagonist, so it could help with depression.
Eric
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