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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
Coming off ssri/snris's after thirteen years of being on them. I dunno, I am tired of sexual side effects and switching meds trying to find a good one and never finding it. I feel like these meds do not do nearly as much as we think they do. Any input/opinions on that?
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 23, 2012, at 23:43:28
In reply to Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
I think it varies by the individual. Docs have a tendency to hand out SSRI and other antidepressants for people who might get better w/o any treatment, might only need a short course of antidepressant treatment, or who might benefit from either non-medical treatment or a mix of medical and non-medical treatment.
I'd just advise you to taper off sloooowly and be patient with yourself. A number of websites on the net have info on how to do this and some recommend supplements to straighten out your brain chemistry and improve overall health.
Good luck!
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2012, at 0:20:39
In reply to Re: Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by Christ_empowered on April 23, 2012, at 23:43:28
Or stay at a low dose if working some. Phillipa
Posted by Chris O on April 24, 2012, at 1:25:38
In reply to Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
Newo38:
I totally empathize (however frustrating this is to my desperate anxiety disordered mind) with your sentiments regarding SSRIs. My last gazillion or so trials with these meds have been failures. I'm on nothing now, faring badly as always. I'm a lifer though, had my condition ever since I could remember. Next stop: Nardil.
Chris
Posted by bleauberry on April 24, 2012, at 4:26:12
In reply to Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
> Coming off ssri/snris's after thirteen years of being on them. I dunno, I am tired of sexual side effects and switching meds trying to find a good one and never finding it. I feel like these meds do not do nearly as much as we think they do. Any input/opinions on that?
I think you are generally correct. In some cases, my rough estimate would be these meds work very well in about 10%-15% of patients. The rest of the patients, well, you know personally how that goes....a mixed bag but mostly not very impressive.
The entire problem I believe is two-fold. First, MDs do nearly nothing to try to rule out or challenge a variety of common causes of nervous system disruption/contamination. This really isn't very hard and costs practically nothing, but they aren't trained to think in that way. So for example while the MD is telling the patient they have a chemical imbalance (how would they know that....they don't and can't) and that the chemical out of balance is serotonin (really? how do you know that?), wow, that's some good xray vision. That gets to the second point, which is, the meds usually chosen are almost purely serotonin based. Sorry, but depression and psych symptoms are a lot more complicated than merely involving something to do with serotonin.
I think these meds are more like numbing agents to the emotions than they are anti-depressant, in many cases.
In a fictionary world where we could choose the best of the best and that is all we have to choose from, all the others go in the trash, I think the psych world could do a lot better in terms of depression treatment success if the meds were limited to combinations such as:
Nortriptyline or desipramine with prozac or zoloft.
Parnate
Nardil
Abilify
Zyprexa
Savella
Ritalin
ClomipramineThe best outcomes, I believe, come from a two-pronged attack involving fairly balanced ratios of serotonin and norepinephrine. In other words....SNRI. The problem is, we don't have any montherapy SNRIs. I think it is deceptive and bordering on unethical to call effexor and cymbalta SNRIs because their impact on NE is miniscule compared to their impact on serotonin. They are just SSRIs with a tiny smidgen of NE. Not enough NE to do any kind of balancing.
Anyway, I came off meds after many years and can offer some tips. First, go slow. Don't be in a hurry. Get good at making custom doses because you will have the easiest time if you lower the doses in very tiny steps. For example if the med in question was cymbalta, you can make custom doses of the enteric coated beads inside the capsule. Doses do not have to be exact. Close is good enough. For example if you had a 20mg capsule of cymbalta and you were wanting 18mg, you dumped out 20 of the inner beads (approximately 1mg per 10 beads) you might not be exactly at 18mg but close enough....less than 20mg and down in a small step;...that's what matters. Take your time, and if you ever need to go back up to a higher dose for a day or a few days, not problem, do it, it is part of the process.
My venture into the plant medicine world began while weaning off meds, because physical anxiety became an issue. Along the journey I became aware of a handful of herbs that were very helpful on an as-needed basis to knock down symptoms when the going got really rough.
You will want to educate yourself and experiment on yourself with these things:
Anti-inflammation
Anti-infection
Anti-toxin
Super healthy foods
Herbal medicinesAnd if you get to a point where you decide you just have to have meds, then stick to the list above.
Posted by ron1953 on April 24, 2012, at 9:57:07
In reply to Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
I was on the med roller coaster for many years, too. I finally decided it was time to get off, realizing that the meds weren't stabilizing my moods at all - in fact, they were actually causing instability, and of course, caused side-effects. I knew I needed to abandon the wish to be "happy", and to stop chasing my tail in that regard. After more than 7 years, I'm slightly better off than I was with the meds, and that's OK. I wish you luck!
Posted by huxley on April 25, 2012, at 3:59:07
In reply to Re: Coming off meds after 13 years... » newo38, posted by ron1953 on April 24, 2012, at 9:57:07
> I was on the med roller coaster for many years, too. I finally decided it was time to get off, realizing that the meds weren't stabilizing my moods at all - in fact, they were actually causing instability, and of course, caused side-effects. I knew I needed to abandon the wish to be "happy", and to stop chasing my tail in that regard. After more than 7 years, I'm slightly better off than I was with the meds, and that's OK. I wish you luck!
I am pretty similar to Ron.
Off meds for a couple of years. Feel much better off them than on. They were causing all sorts of mental problems, confusion, anxiety etc.Just be a little careful coming off them, your body and mind can react quite violently trying to readjust to life without chemical modification.
Good luck whatever you do. Hope it's easy for youl.
Posted by TiredofChemicals on April 29, 2012, at 12:59:22
In reply to Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by newo38 on April 23, 2012, at 20:48:31
> Coming off ssri/snris's after thirteen years of being on them. I dunno, I am tired of sexual side effects and switching meds trying to find a good one and never finding it. I feel like these meds do not do nearly as much as we think they do. Any input/opinions on that?
^^^
Ten years for me on the "medical merry-go-round............pfffft.....what a waste of my life! Like a hamster on a wheel or going in and out of doors of trial and error. The endless cycle of hope and despair.In the end, I was caught up in a failure rate of 99.9% to help me cope with my daily existence with "medications" that were meant to treat conditions that I was not experiencing or that I was fully aware of.
I'm getting tired, my expressions may not be portrayed or explained as clearly and throughly as I would desire presently.
With that, I'm gonna' step away from the keyboard for the moment.
Regards
Posted by ron1953 on April 29, 2012, at 16:21:44
In reply to Re: Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by TiredofChemicals on April 29, 2012, at 12:59:22
> Ten years for me on the "medical merry-go-round............pfffft.....what a waste of my life! Like a hamster on a wheel or going in and out of doors of trial and error. The endless cycle of hope and despair.
>
> In the end, I was caught up in a failure rate of 99.9% to help me cope with my daily existence with "medications" that were meant to treat conditions that I was not experiencing or that I was fully aware of.
>
> I'm getting tired, my expressions may not be portrayed or explained as clearly and throughly as I would desire presently.
>
> With that, I'm gonna' step away from the keyboard for the moment.
>
> Regards
>
---------------------------------------------
And that, pardon the expression, is a hard pill to swallow, especially if there's no place to go from there. Sometimes, I look back on the years of taking all those psych drugs like I look back on my first marriage - wistfully reminiscing on something that was never going to work in the long run, and wondering how my life might have been different if i had had my eyes open a bit more.Again, I'm not anti-drug; I'm pro-think about it.
Posted by TiredofChemicals on May 1, 2012, at 9:58:25
In reply to Re: Coming off meds after 13 years..., posted by ron1953 on April 29, 2012, at 16:21:44
> > Ten years for me on the "medical merry-go-round............pfffft.....what a waste of my life! Like a hamster on a wheel or going in and out of doors of trial and error. The endless cycle of hope and despair.
> >
> > In the end, I was caught up in a failure rate of 99.9% to help me cope with my daily existence with "medications" that were meant to treat conditions that I was not experiencing or that I was fully aware of.
> >
> > I'm getting tired, my expressions may not be portrayed or explained as clearly and throughly as I would desire presently.
> >
> > With that, I'm gonna' step away from the keyboard for the moment.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> ---------------------------------------------
> And that, pardon the expression, is a hard pill to swallow, especially if there's no place to go from there. Sometimes, I look back on the years of taking all those psych drugs like I look back on my first marriage - wistfully reminiscing on something that was never going to work in the long run, and wondering how my life might have been different if i had had my eyes open a bit more.
>
> Again, I'm not anti-drug; I'm pro-think about it.^^^^
You make a good point! Now that you mention it, I think that about the time that I was realizing that psychiatry was doing nothing (or very little) to help me is about the time that I was at my worst and suicidal. I felt "abandoned" or lost and didn't know where to turn.I'm out of it now. I can only imagine those that have not escaped that psychological institution without taking their own lives. It's a terrible trap.
This is the end of the thread.
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