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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uncouth on February 8, 2012, at 18:57:47
hey folks,
i saw an integrative MD today who thought that my cluster of symptoms...mood, sleepiness/fatigue, and especially insomnia probably meant something like adrenal fatigue. we are doing a 24 hour cortisol test and hopefully that shows something. the problem is over the past six months i have been on supplements that are supposed to help, but i'm now worse off it seems. i have been exercising intensely the last 5 months too, and haven't seen any weight drop off of my abdominal section, which would make sense if i had high cortisol. i'm on an SSRI, i have been taking 50mg of DHEA, and rhodiola, which i just stopped....why on earth would my cortisol still bee high if i'm doing all this? how can i still have adrenal fatigue if i've been taking rhodiola for a long time now, and dhea???what are the best supplements to help with adrenal fatigue? is eleuthero better? i get a paradoxical reaction to eleuthero--it doesn't give me energy, it actually makes me a little sleepy and heavy eyed...it is definitely stress easer. how long would i have to take eleuthero before adrenals recovered?
HELP!
Posted by linkadge on February 8, 2012, at 19:10:58
In reply to Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by uncouth on February 8, 2012, at 18:57:47
was the test taken after stopping the DHEA? Could there be a cortisol rebound effect?
Linkadge
Posted by uncouth on February 8, 2012, at 19:32:35
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by linkadge on February 8, 2012, at 19:10:58
haven't taken test yet, but stopping dhea today. problems have been occurring even with 50mg of dhea daily and rhodiola...
Posted by Phillipa on February 8, 2012, at 21:02:24
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by uncouth on February 8, 2012, at 19:32:35
My endo recently did a cortisol test on me. It went from a blood draw, to 24 hour urine, to a dexamethasone challenge test. And cortisol was normal. At first he thought I could have Cushings disease. But nope I'm fine. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on February 12, 2012, at 10:40:18
In reply to Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by uncouth on February 8, 2012, at 18:57:47
Well, if we all think depression is hard to treat, adrenal fatigue in my experience is just as hard or harder. It requires a comprehensive plan from several angles, experimentation, and lots of time....6 months to 2 years is typical.
Look up on google stuff from Dr Lam on adrenal fatigue. He offers some viewpoints that explain why some of the common adrenal treatments can actually make things worse. It requires experimentation to find what feels good, and it requires constant adjustments as things change....in other words you might not be on the same substance month after month and doses might be in motion as well.
In my experience these are the most important factors in improving adrenal health....
Food choices.
Ways to avoid or minimize stress in your home/work.
Movement and/or exercise, but done gently.
A good vitamin/mineral supplement, with extra B5.
Fish oil or cod liver oil.
Detox.
Antimicrobial.
Adaptogen herbs.Easier said than done, right? Yep. Healing is not easy. If someone tells you take this herb and you'll be better in a couple months, they have no idea what they are talking about.
Why is it so tricky to treat? Because faulty hormones related to the adrenals impact every biochemical system in the body and will manifest in different ways from person to person. Also, the adrenals didn't just get overtaxed for no reason....we gotta find out what the reason was/is.
Examples:
Diet...low or no sugars, low carbs, low or no caffeine, gluten free desirable, lots of pure water, nutrient dense foods, meals should appear to be mostly bright colors along with some lean protein and good fats (avocados, fish oils, olive oil, coconut oil, flax). Absolutely nothing processed and absolutely nothing you can't pronounce or you don't know what it is. Organic as much as possible.Detox....hmm, risky business but necessary. Things to look at include low dose frequent dose DMSA, chlorella, burbur, alpha lipoic acid. But do homework on these before doing any.
Herbs...rhodiola, eleuthero, ashwaganda, schizandra, sometimes astragalus as long as chronic lyme is not at all suspect. The tricky part here is they have to be tried one at a time to see what each feels like, and to try each at various doses....ultra low, low, normal, high....as experiments to see what they feel like to you. How you feel is the best guide. For example with eleuthero, you can pretty much conclude from your experience it is going to feel sedating, maybe depressing as with me. Eleuthero generally takes at least 3 months to start to do its thing, 6 months better, and pretty much the only form of the herb that will do that is the liquid tincture such as HerbPharm. My personal experience has shown me my body does not like eleuthero but does like rhodiola somewhat and does like ashwaganda somewhat. Stay away from herbal combos until you know how each feels to you. What a book says or someone else says doesn't count....only what happens with you is what counts.
Antimicrobial. Lots of choices....best bet is to study what people take for lyme and candida. Those herbs will pretty much cover all the bases and do so better than pharmaceuticals.
And along the journey, always be aware of avoiding 'overdoing it'. If you have a random good day and feel better than usual, purposely tell yourself to slow down and don't do too much. You'll pay a stiff price if you break this rule.
There is a book my doctor let me read, can't remember the name, but it was written by a doctor and was all about how food choices alone can heal adrenal fatigue. I took a lot from that book to incorporate into my own comprehensive strategies.
It's 3 years since I started treating my adrenal fatigue. i would say that particular spectrum of my disease is about 75% improved. But I'm always on the edge....I'm fine as long as I stick to my plan, but if I cheat or veer off course, gains can be lost rapidly. We don't know if our adrenals are temporarily in distress or permanently weakened....so for some people there may never be the ultimate cure, but instead an ongoing management to prevent most of the negative effects from lowering quality of life.
Posted by Laney on February 13, 2012, at 20:06:04
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by bleauberry on February 12, 2012, at 10:40:18
Adrenal, thyroid, etc.
I agree with Bleauberry. Very hard to treat.
Laney
Posted by Phillipa on February 13, 2012, at 21:09:10
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by Laney on February 13, 2012, at 20:06:04
Laney since thyroid is when all my problems started. Definitely agree with thyroid. You too? Forgot sorry:( Phillipa
Posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 8:53:44
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by bleauberry on February 12, 2012, at 10:40:18
I feel so weird about this adrenal fatigue thing. I did a saliva test and a blood test. The $300 saliva test said that I have adrenal fatigue. Blood tests - nada.
I'm kinda thinking, "What woman in her late 30s-40s doesn't feel depleted?". Still, I am trying the natural progesterone and -- well, I THINK about the diet a lot. I kind of imagine that only a minority does not have this condition. what am i missing?
Posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2012, at 19:43:45
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 8:53:44
Personally at that age I was a runner, had just finished RN school, had three kids two teens one younger and was and did go through a divorse but I felt great. It wasn't till the thyroid issue that I went to pieces so to speak. I had the blood draw, 24 hour urine, and dexamethosone test recently and addrenal's were fine per endo. Phillipa
Posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 19:59:44
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue... » stewie, posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2012, at 19:43:45
Well, that is the thing, you kow? Blood draws say everything is fine. It is only this saliva test that says otherwise... the one NOT covered in my state by insurance...
Frankly, I have been depleted on and off for years whenever depression has gotten bad.
You sound like you were Superwoman, Phillipa! I just don't know... is it depression or is it adrenal fatigue? It seems as if either way, feeling better is a crap shoot.
For me, part of the depleted feeling has to do with a career that failed. It was followed by other failed career attempts. I am determined to find something, but find myself caring less and less whether or not I do. Probably I am just lazy! LOL...no... it hasn't always been this way.
Thanks for your input. I hear that thyroid is pretty hard to deal with. How long has this been affecting your life, to your knowledge? Any relief of symptoms at all?Best,
Diane> Personally at that age I was a runner, had just finished RN school, had three kids two teens one younger and was and did go through a divorse but I felt great. It wasn't till the thyroid issue that I went to pieces so to speak. I had the blood draw, 24 hour urine, and dexamethosone test recently and addrenal's were fine per endo. Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2012, at 20:24:56
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue... » Phillipa, posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 19:59:44
Dianne hit me at the time of menopause about age 50. First as the thyroid was failing felt sick like I couldn't draw a deep breath. I was sooo tired then all of a sudden anxiety soared was tested and I took .25mcg and all of a sudden at work the world felt like it opened and my ears seemed to unpop like if you had a cold. Anxiety disappeared when back down on xanax at the time. It's been about 15 years I think but I wonder if it's possible for synthroid to poop out for real as it just doesn't seem to work always tired and aggitated at the same time. Phillipa
Posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 21:17:47
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue... » stewie, posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2012, at 20:24:56
Wow... that is some intrusion on life. I do hope you still manage to have good days.
I worry about my sister, who was diagnosed with terrible Graves disease.
Thanks for sharing and I look forward to talking more with you.
D
Posted by creepy on February 22, 2012, at 15:35:45
In reply to Re: Cortisol, insomnia, adrenal fatigue..., posted by stewie on February 20, 2012, at 8:53:44
my experience with fatigue is that stimulating meds will only get you so far. SSRIs and the like can help a little but theyre not the whole answer.
I investigated several theories about chronic fatigue and I think 'adrenal fatigue' mostly comes up in scams. someone wants you to buy their supplement package =(
Id investigate possible sleep disturbance, antidepressants, antibiotics, diet changes (pasta does me in..) and supplements like carnitine, rhodiola and licorice root.
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