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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
hello
have heard a lot of good things about ect, the were talking about it on dr. oz and they say it has a 80% chance of helping anybody have any comments
cee
Posted by emmanuel98 on January 26, 2012, at 19:00:25
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
I read alot about it and had a friend who swears by it. But I tried both unilateral and bilateral ECT (bileateral fried my brain and destroyed my memory for a couple of months) and got nothing from it.
Posted by Zyprexa on January 26, 2012, at 19:39:40
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by emmanuel98 on January 26, 2012, at 19:00:25
fried my brains too. 14 years later and still things I can't remember. Made me stupid as well. For a while there I couldn't even think. They gave a lot of ects, not sure how many, but probable around 30 in 6 months. I wish I had never had them and that I would have taken my meds to begin with.
Posted by sigismund on January 26, 2012, at 19:48:36
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
The fact that a figure like 80% can be seriously mentioned makes me wonder about the respect and seriousness in which psych patients are held. There must be some people who profit from it, there was one on Babble if I recall correctly. Only one. I never heard of it helping, apart from that.
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 26, 2012, at 20:45:43
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
ECT fries the brain. It used to be a cheap and easy way to punish patients and/or keep order on crowded wards, especially in state hospitals. These days, its mad expensive, what with the anaesthesia, meds, etc., so its more common in private hospitals. Still, some patients find themselves forced to undergo such "treatment" by court order.
I wouldn't sign up for that BS. If you read the older literature, back when psychiatrists were more open and honest (they called it EST, for instance--ElectroShockTherapy), you'll see that brain damage was the name of the game. With sufficient EST/ECT, you get more brain damage and more impairment than you'd get from a lobotomy.
Back in the 50s, some shrinks did experiments on reducing people to "vegetables" with EST. "Annihilation therapy," mentioned in "Mad in America," included shocking someone until they started urinating on themselves and basically became vegetables. That's "intensive ECT" these days.
I get that it helps some people, but relapse rates are high, its expensive, and its basically medical torture. I don't know why Dr.Oz is singing the praises of ECT/EST, but that's dangerous. I mean, I could see a little ECT being about as dangerous, possibly less dangerous, than some massive drug cocktail, but I pretty much think that's a misuse of Dr.Oz's considerable influence.
Anyway, what are your problems? What do you think ECT might "fix" ?
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on January 26, 2012, at 21:35:03
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by Christ_empowered on January 26, 2012, at 20:45:43
If you've failed multiple meds and psychotherapy, then it might be worth trying..... but I'd get a second opinion from another psychiatrist first
Posted by Zyprexa on January 27, 2012, at 3:21:28
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by Zyprexa on January 26, 2012, at 19:39:40
Both times I was in the mental hospital I had ects. I don't remember much about when I was in hospital. Just remember some realy weird dreams and feeling like I was in hell. And had no concept of reality. It continued like that after I left. I think the ects made me worse than the schitzoaffective I had/have. I think smoking pot would be a better alternative to ect. I know pot messed up my head but ect was unreal.
Posted by Zyprexa on January 27, 2012, at 3:31:11
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2012, at 10:03:28
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by Zyprexa on January 27, 2012, at 3:21:28
Check the archives here also long discussions not much if anything positive. Phillipa
Posted by Roslynn on January 27, 2012, at 13:50:39
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
From what I have heard, you still need meds after ECT. So, you could have the ECT, but still need to continue your meds, or continue trying to find meds that work, even after you have the ECT. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know why certain doctors are so positive about ECT. And they downplay the risks, it seems.
Roslynn
Posted by Zyprexa on January 28, 2012, at 3:16:08
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by Roslynn on January 27, 2012, at 13:50:39
Yes you have to continue meds after ect. I did anyways. Your better off finding a med that works ok and force yourself to like it. Get use to the side effects. Thats what I had to do, because I didn't want to end up in hospital again and get forced on more ects.
Posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2012, at 8:44:23
In reply to ect ?, posted by cee on January 26, 2012, at 18:02:32
I dunno. I had ECT. Not only did it fail me, it failed every single person in the group I was with. The memory/cognitive damage was more than you would expect. Mine was, hmm, memory not that good....I think about 6 years ago.
Maybe ECT has made technical progress since then? Dunno. I didn't see the Oz show but people told me about it. I like Dr Oz but I kind of have to take issue with him on that topic. I don't know what studies he looked at or what stats he used, but I can tell you most of them are flawed, biased, or twisted in multiple ways. So I'm a bit surprised.
To the best of my knowledge and experience, ECT has about the same track record as meds, not better; and that even when it does work it relapses relatively quickly.; and that it does not eliminate the need to stay on the med merrygoround.
Maybe things have improved, I don't know. My gut instinct says to tread carefully on this procedure.
No one ever talks about the expense. My own co-pay was over $1000. My insurance at the time paid........$28,000! For 12 shocks? Wow. It might be a fair price if you actually got a reborn life out of it. I think that does happen sometimes, just not very often. It did not feel good spending more on depression than a really nice brand new car and yet getting absolutely nothing out of it except brain damage and chunks of life memories gone forever.
Anyway, I am an ECT survivor, studied it a lot also, and am generally a critic. I guess I might be more open to review if someone would show me the data Dr Oz looked at to form his opinions.
Posted by sigismund on January 28, 2012, at 13:26:03
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by bleauberry on January 28, 2012, at 8:44:23
>I guess I might be more open to review if someone would show me the data
No ethics committee would permit double blind studies, but it is way worse than that: I really do not think they listen to their patients. It's like the patient slips into a parallel universe.
Posted by poser938 on January 28, 2012, at 23:50:52
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by sigismund on January 28, 2012, at 13:26:03
one thing that bothers me, if i understood it right, is that ECT never even had to go through any FDA approval trial thanks to the grandfather clause. since ECT was around before the FDA was started, there was no need for it to go through the approval process.
i know the FDA has its flaws, but i would feel a bit better about it if ECT had been approved by it. i just read too many horror stories about it. about people becoming disabled after having it done because their thinking process gets so messed up, i get the idea that the FDA might not even approve it because the of too much of a risk.i start rTMS treatments monday, and hopefully i get everything i need out of them. i'm hoping for a miraculous recovery.
Posted by cee on January 29, 2012, at 17:25:00
In reply to Re: ect ?, posted by poser938 on January 28, 2012, at 23:50:52
hello people
thanks for all your feed back on the ect post .
I do not think i will persue it i scares the hell out of me
thanks cee
This is the end of the thread.
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