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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 13:17:06
I have been holding steady on 80mg at night of Geodon and 20 - 40mg of geodon during the day. I notice that the daytime dose really makes me feel tired and lethargic and as a result I have become a caffeine addict. I can't take more than 5mg of Adderall or I get irritable.
Plus, the other thing about Geodon is that I just don't really feel anything. Weird. I'm not happy or sad. I feel like maybe I need a little pep or boost (or maybe I need to own a coffee shop!).
I don't think I could express emotion right now if I had to.
Am I missing something? Is it now time to lower the dose and add an antidepressant?
I also notice that I feel better in the evening when I take 2mg of Klonopin. I think it makes me feel more laid back and relaxed instead of blah.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 23, 2011, at 16:14:05
In reply to Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 13:17:06
Sheila, could it be about taking less Adderall?
I gave up dexedrine. It's difficult I find.
Posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 16:39:46
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question... » sheilac, posted by floatingbridge on September 23, 2011, at 16:14:05
I don't know. If I take more Adderall I get moody and shot tempered. I'm not sure what to do. I could take more Adderall and have Klonopin on hand at all times.
It just seems odd to take more Adderall for energy and then have to take more Klonopin or more Geodon.
Plus, I do kinda feel a little depressed. Maybe that's why I'm over doing the coffee. A little depression. No motivation.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 23, 2011, at 16:47:12
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 16:39:46
For me, dex created more instability which I then had to medicate.
I still try and medicate with coffee which makes me feel jangled and awful.
Sometimes I think of the idea of re-adding some. Much smaller amount.
Maybe your body will adjust fairly soon. Stims are a hard ac
t to follow IMO. They got me used to running in a hyperdrive with extra motivation. Then there is the non-enhanced version of my life. It is more stable, less dysphoric (my major symptom).Slower. But getting used to that, as are those around me :-o
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 23, 2011, at 17:14:23
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question... » sheilac, posted by floatingbridge on September 23, 2011, at 16:47:12
Antipsychotics (AKA: neuroleptics, major tranquilizers) tend to make people feel kind of "flat," sometimes even depressed (although more commonly its "neuroleptic-induced dysphoria"). I really don't know what to tell you; you can add in a little more Adderall, but you're taking what I think is a full dose of Geodon, so you're running into some of the same problems that people with Schizophrenia and severe bipolar get when they take antipsychotics. This is one reason why severely mentally ill people often try to go off (and stay off) their meds; the tranquilizers have a tendency to make you feel flat and apathetic.
I don't know what could help. A dosage reduction? Switching to a different kind of medication? I take Abilify, and at 15 or less I don't feel terribly flat. Now, 30 was a whole different story, so it seems to be dosage related. Is that an option for you?
Hang in there.
:-)
Posted by Phillipa on September 23, 2011, at 21:39:33
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by Christ_empowered on September 23, 2011, at 17:14:23
CE thanks for the explanation of how they work and make a person feel. Phillipa
Posted by creepy on September 23, 2011, at 22:54:29
In reply to Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 13:17:06
Ive read some stuff that makes me think its the NE release in adderall that contributes to that whole anger / irritability thing when it hits.
Maybe try dexedrine instead?
When my depression isnt 100% treated is when I get that anhedonia and lethargy the most.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 24, 2011, at 4:19:57
In reply to Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by sheilac on September 23, 2011, at 13:17:06
Isn't that what APs are supposed to do? Make you emotionless so you don't freak out or feel bad. Sucks doesn't it, or maybe its just realy good. I don't know. I think you should drop the adderall, and stick with the caffine. I developed a serious cola/MDew addiction when I started zyprexa, 13 years ago. Can't live without it now. 2-3 Lt a day. I'm coming off the wellbutrin now and have noticed it makes me anxious and unpleasant. Caffine does not do that.
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2011, at 7:00:29
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by Christ_empowered on September 23, 2011, at 17:14:23
If you throw away Geodon, what AAPs are left for you to try? What is it that you need for an AP to do?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2011, at 7:06:06
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by Zyprexa on September 24, 2011, at 4:19:57
> Isn't that what APs are supposed to do?
No.
> Make you emotionless so you don't freak out or feel bad.
I don't fit neatly into this categorization of atypical antipsychotics. I am not rendered emotionless by these drugs. Perhaps Risperdal early in treatment slowed me down and numbed me.
Atypicals are not chemical lobotomies.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on September 24, 2011, at 7:55:33
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by creepy on September 23, 2011, at 22:54:29
> Ive read some stuff that makes me think its the NE release in adderall that contributes to that whole anger / irritability thing when it hits.
> Maybe try dexedrine instead?
> When my depression isnt 100% treated is when I get that anhedonia and lethargy the most.creepy, I suspect dexidrine leaves the same NE byproduct. Unfortunately. I wonder if my dexidrine round overly sensitized me to NE.
Posted by creepy on September 24, 2011, at 18:00:31
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question... » creepy, posted by floatingbridge on September 24, 2011, at 7:55:33
I think it was brainbeard that said he'd read something that suggested (sounds vague! hehe..) that dexedrine was heavier on DA release than NE. And that adderall was the opposite.
The two drugs produced different effects for me. I dont get energy from dexedrine but I dont get as irritable.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 24, 2011, at 18:09:58
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by creepy on September 24, 2011, at 18:00:31
> I think it was brainbeard that said he'd read something that suggested (sounds vague! hehe..) that dexedrine was heavier on DA release than NE. And that adderall was the opposite.
> The two drugs produced different effects for me. I dont get energy from dexedrine but I dont get as irritable.I think that sounds right. I remember also reading (something over my head) about a 'downstream' (?) NE effect. I do know that I seem sensitive to NE effects of meds, whereas before they were saviors, like effexor and wellbutrin. I don't pretend to understand, and would be happy to have any misconceptions overturned :P
Posted by Sheilac on September 25, 2011, at 12:28:11
In reply to Re: Geodon / lethargic question... » sheilac, posted by floatingbridge on September 23, 2011, at 16:47:12
FB - you and I sound a lot alike. Adderall or any of the ADHD meds can make my mood unstable so I really have to watch the doses.
I am looking for an AAP to stabilize my moods and make me less prone to anger and rage outbursts. Risperdal, Zyprexa (which I loved!), and Abilify all made me pack on the weight. I have more BPII and have been prone to anger outbursts when manic in the past and depression when the mania leaves. Geodon at a higher dose has really helped keep me calm and rational. But now, after several months, I think I need a dosage reduction, at least during the day. I have been feeling flat mood wise. No sense in taking Geodon during the day and then overloading on coffee and Adderall to counter the side effects of the daytime Geodon! Doesn't make sense.
I will work with my doc on lowering my overall Geodon dose and see if I can get away with only taking it at night now that I have been stable for a while.
Also - I will not go over 5mg of Adderall XR during the day. It wakes me up without caffeine overload and helps keep me from falling asleep. It also helps a little with my mood and depression, maybe because it gives me a little interest and energy to do things without making me manic.
I do have my Klonopin, which I have been really bad about taking during the day when I probably need it. My doc would like to see me take my Klonopin during the day on a more scheduled basis (like at noon, 4pm and then bedtime). This could probably take the place of the sleepy daytime Geodon.
Geodon hasn't added any weight gain to me and it has kept me stable for a while - something that I haven't been in a long time. Not too many side effects either like most of the other meds I have tried.
I would like a little more of an antidepressant effect. Not sure how to get that. Maybe go back to a tiny dose of Prozac?
I feel stable, just a little flat and maybe a little depressed.
Maybe if I lower my Geodon dose I can ditch the Adderall. Like FB said, it dose tend to make my mood unstable, which is why I can't go over 5mg! Maybe instead of Adderall a small dose of an antidepressant added to the Geodon would help.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 25, 2011, at 13:01:44
In reply to Tweaking... Geodon / lethargic question..., posted by Sheilac on September 25, 2011, at 12:28:11
Sheila, my two cents is to take the klonopin at scheduled times. I hear that you don't want to take too much meds. But my new pdoc finally got through to me about benzo usage: take them as scheduled and not on a need to basis for greater stability.
Maybe you can talk to your pdoc once you feel stable about lowering your scheduled doses od klonopin if that feels good to you.
I'm glad the geodon is working. Risperidone (which I take at a much lower dose) was flattening me, and I discussed this with some posters here and then with my pdoc. His and their take was that the slight flattening I felt was perhaps therapeutic because I had been living on agitated nervous
energy for years and that with time, my mood might stabilize and lift a bit as I got used to living less on nerve. That's the tack I'm taking, but our cases are different. Still, I wanted to share that with you.Best wishes always, Sheila.
This is the end of the thread.
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