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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
I've been reading, slowly, here and there, about Stablon. I have some reasons to think it might be an improvement over what I'm being offered for cptsd and health stuff.
Now drats! No FDA approval.
I am a super law-abiding patient. The idea of an online overseas pharmacy gives me the creeps. That's just me. I know some posters have done fine.
Right? Or not?
(I am not asking for medication or for online addresses; just an fyi to the board and administration.)
My pdoc has said, flat out, he will not prescribe anything not approved by the FDA. I value my alliance with him. What can I do?
I'm thinking that, in the advent that I really think to go ahead with a stablon
trial, I tell my pdoc, request a hiatus from our contract, and see if he'd be willing to see me after the trial was over. Or if he'd see me after a successful trial which meant I'd continue to take it.What would you do? Respectful opinions very welcome.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:23:42
In reply to advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
a very theoretical discussion. I move at a glacial pace these days. And I hope this discussion is in keeping with board rules. If not, please let me know.
I just want to stay safe.
Thanks.
Posted by desolationrower on May 5, 2011, at 17:47:29
In reply to advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
its better to ask forgiveness than permission
-d/r
Posted by mtdewcmu on May 5, 2011, at 17:48:50
In reply to advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
It looks like it may be available in Mexico. Mexico isn't the easiest for mail order, but I happen to live near the border. I'm not really interested in tianeptine right now though.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 5, 2011, at 18:28:28
In reply to advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
I love online pharmacies. That's where I get my cheap-ish Abilify and super-cheap Retin-A. I'm not crazy, and my skin looks awesome, so I'm a happy customer.
In terms of your relationship with your doc, I don't know what to tell you. On the one hand, I'd be careful damaging what could be a useful/valuable relationship over what could be just another antidepressant. On the other hand, I'd be kind upset that he's not supportive, especially since its not a controlled substance.
So...I dunno...it really depends on how dire your situation is. If you really, really think the tianeptine could help, then I'd say order it and think about your shrink later. If you've found one of those seemingly rare good shrinks, you might want to discuss it further and then go from there.
Posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 18:51:19
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Christ_empowered on May 5, 2011, at 18:28:28
FB what about the new med? Where or why do you feel stablon is the med that will work for you? Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 18:56:16
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by desolationrower on May 5, 2011, at 17:47:29
> its better to ask forgiveness than permission
>
> -d/rI'm not sure I agree, though I suppose if my self-esteem or whatever were better...well, my life would be very different and so would my questions.
I'm not comfortable withholding. He has, to date, treated me very respectfully.
If I had not had any prior discussion
about non-fda meds. That would be an
honorable transgression. It's ultimately up to me. It's just that some folks
practice more adept life skills....Thanks d/r.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:14:44
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Christ_empowered on May 5, 2011, at 18:28:28
> I love online pharmacies. That's where I get my cheap-ish Abilify and super-cheap Retin-A. I'm not crazy, and my skin looks awesome, so I'm a happy customer.
>CE, you know I never said anyone would be crazy to use an online overseas pharmacy. I should have said it scares
me. I don't know how to verify security or quality of a business out of my country (USA).I am very happy you like the retin-a. :-) Worked really well for me, too.
> In terms of your relationship with your doc, I don't know what to tell you. On the one hand, I'd be careful damaging what could be a useful/valuable relationship over what could be just another antidepressant. On the other
hand, I'd be kind upset that he's not supportive, especially since its not a controlled substance.
>
> So...I dunno...it really depends on how dire your situation is. If you really, really
think the tianeptine could help, then I'd
say order it and think about your shrink later. If you've found one of those seemingly rare good shrinks, you might want to discuss it further and then go from there.
>Sigh. There is no getting around having a discussion with him, I guess. My situation isn't dire psychologically. I feel worn down by talk and trials. Maybe you know what I mean by the 'o k., let's discuss that next week, syndrome'. :P
Thanks.
Posted by Christ_empowered on May 5, 2011, at 19:23:10
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:14:44
hey, sorry to offend you...I didn't mean that you were saying you had to be crazy to use an online pharmacy, I meant that the Abilify was keeping me sane (its my anti-crazy pill).
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:32:19
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 18:51:19
> FB what about the new med? Where or why do you feel stablon is the med that will work for you? Phillipa
It is being used for ptsd in Europe. There was a study out of Italy concluding that it helped some fibromyalgia patients with pain, stress, and depression.
Anything that works for *some*
fibromyalgia patients gets my attention.
I think a fibromyalgia dx is about as specific as a MDD dx. The category is heterogeneous.Now I'm on maintenance doses of norco and xanax. I know I can do better than that for my health and recovery. As it is, I'm being given those just because I
don't adversely react to them, all the while being told not to take too much.
That in itself is very stressful, as if I
weren't already nervously monitoring.And, d*mn it (!), I let myself be undermedicated. Again.
You know me, right?
Crumbcakes. Holy crumbcakes.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:35:40
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Christ_empowered on May 5, 2011, at 19:23:10
> hey, sorry to offend you...I didn't mean that you were saying you had to be crazy to use an online pharmacy, I meant that the Abilify was keeping me sane (its my anti-crazy pill).
>
>Hey, no. I thought I might have offended you or maybe someone else reading. I wrote that to clarify. :P
Did you read the bottom? I really appreciate your answer, CE.
Thanks.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:37:59
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by mtdewcmu on May 5, 2011, at 17:48:50
> It looks like it may be available in Mexico. Mexico isn't the easiest for mail order, but I happen to live near the border. I'm not really interested in tianeptine right now though.
How are you doing today, MtDew? Have you ever used an overseas pharmacy?
Posted by mtdewcmu on May 5, 2011, at 20:36:27
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » mtdewcmu, posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 19:37:59
> > It looks like it may be available in Mexico. Mexico isn't the easiest for mail order, but I happen to live near the border. I'm not really interested in tianeptine right now though.
>
> How are you doing today, MtDew? Have you ever used an overseas pharmacy?Thanks for asking. It has been a decently productive day, although mood hasn't been great. I haven't ordered from a sketchy one that sells prescription drugs without a prescription, but I ordered eye drops from a british pharmacy that are OTC there but not here. I've also used Mexican pharmacies (not technically overseas).
Watch out for counterfeit meds. It's hard to tell from a website whether a pharmacy is a responsible operation.
Posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 21:15:07
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on May 5, 2011, at 20:36:27
Personally I wouldn't order from overseas. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 21:23:55
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 21:15:07
Phillipa, I appreciate your honesty.
I feel like packing up my toys and going home. Wherever that is. I am so tired of meds right now.
Posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 21:30:00
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 21:23:55
FB maybe remove the patch and settle down. Hubby home? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 21:36:53
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 21:30:00
Yes. It's off. But that's ridiculous.
Thanks PJ.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 22:47:27
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by Phillipa on May 5, 2011, at 21:15:07
Phillipa, I appreciate your honesty.
I feel like packing up my toys and going home. Wherever that is. I am so tired of meds right now.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 6, 2011, at 13:32:18
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 22:47:27
All's well here. Just a panic attack & start-up anxiety. Sorry to interrupt any discussion.
fb
Posted by europerep on May 6, 2011, at 17:14:12
In reply to advice on overseas pharmacies...., posted by floatingbridge on May 5, 2011, at 17:21:15
Hi!
I know I have a kind of atypical approach to doing all these things, but I would definitely say: go for it!
I mean, technically I too am law-abiding and everything - seriously! - but when it comes to my health, I don't make any compromises. My favorite story in that regard is obviously how - after trying really hard to get a psychiatrist to prescribe me just a small amount of buprenorphine to see if it worked - I finished seeing a new doc pretending to have developed a heroin addiction for which I wanted to get buprenorphine as a substitution/maintenance treatment. And voilą, whereas before I couldn't even get a lousy 10 x 0.2mg temgesic blister, I was basically thrown at with 2mg tablets of Subutex. I still can't believe how easy that was.
More seriously though:
If you think it can help you, don't waste your time thinking about whether or not to do it. You recently mentioned MAOIs were still an option for you. I wouldn't dismiss them really, but if you're not ready for an MAOI yet, then go with tianeptine. I don't know if by "online pharmacy" you mean "without a prescription", but even if so, you wouldn't get into big trouble if the thing was seized by customs. As a first-time "offender", and tianeptine not being a controlled substance, I would think it would be no big deal.Also, for me, my buprenorphine story is actually one of the few things that have happened in the past years that I am proud of. I wanted something, and despite my illness I was able to get it. Of course it didn't work for me, but the story is still good, and it helped me to move another step forward in terms of treatments had.
So, yeah, in short, don't worry about it and try it out if you think that's what you should do!
Good luck!
Posted by floatingbridge on May 6, 2011, at 20:23:13
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » floatingbridge, posted by europerep on May 6, 2011, at 17:14:12
> Hi!
Hey! You're back! :-)
How was your vacation ;-)?
>
> I know I have a kind of atypical approach to doing all these things,And I love it...!
but I would definitely say: go for it!
>
> I mean, technically I too am law-abiding and everything - seriously! - but when it comes to my health, I don't make any compromises. My favorite
story in that regard is obviously how - after trying really hard to get a psychiatrist to prescribe me just a small amount of buprenorphine to see if it worked - I finished seeing a new doc pretending to have developed a heroin addiction for which I wanted to get
buprenorphine as a substitution/maintenance treatment. And voilą, whereas before I couldn't even get a lousy 10 x 0.2mg temgesic blister, I was basically thrown at with 2mg tablets of Subutex. I still can't believe how easy that was.OMG that is pretty priceless. You've got hutzpah. I don't think I could pull that off.
>
> More seriously though:
> If you think it can help you, don't waste your time thinking about whether or not to do it. You recently mentioned MAOIs were still an option for you. I wouldn't dismiss them really, but if you're not ready for an MAOI yet, then go with tianeptine. I don't know if by "online pharmacy" you mean "without a prescription", but even if so, you wouldn't get into big trouble if the thing was seized by customs. As a first-time "offender", and tianeptine not being a
controlled substance, I would think it would be no big deal.Could a non-scheduled substance be seized? I hadn't gotten that far in
thought.... I'd hate to lose the money. And knowing me, I'd have procrastinated ordering....>
> Also, for me, my buprenorphine story is actually one of the few things that have happened in the past years that I am proud of. I wanted something, and despite my illness I was able to get it. Of
course it didn't work for me, but the story is still good, and it helped me to move another step forward in terms of treatments had.
>
> So, yeah, in short, don't worry about it and try it out if you think that's what you
should do!
> Good luck!Thanks eurorep. I do have a little story from today. I called my gp, the one who is pushing the norco taper (reducing it has been very beneficial), and yet, not providing any plan for me other than meditation and Qi gong. I do have an order in hand from her own osteopath that I do need pain meds. Finally, after white-knuckling through days of not enough--like yesterday having to decide if I take my medication now, I won't last until afternoon. I called her up and told her I need to bump up back to a max of 20mg. She said, well the lesson I take from this is next time to taper more slowly. I paused and said the lesson I learned was not to taper past a certain comfort zone until I had a real replacement plan in place. Then she's asking if I need a scrip for the weekend, some patients do o.k. managing monthly doses on their own... It was an interesting shift.
Any who, day three of emsam has been sweet. Really. Go figure. I think stablon is contraindicated for maoi's. But maybe I won't want it? I just don't know. But I am doing my research because I've experienced some doctors withholding treatment, others tossing stuff at me (I'm fairly med sensitive.)
I like your spirit :D
Good to hear from you.
Posted by Phillipa on May 6, 2011, at 21:18:31
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » europerep, posted by floatingbridge on May 6, 2011, at 20:23:13
FB so with reinstating the higher dose of norco you are able to tolerate the emsam. And feeling good or better? Congrats. Love Phillipa
Posted by europerep on May 7, 2011, at 7:56:10
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » europerep, posted by floatingbridge on May 6, 2011, at 20:23:13
> Hey! You're back! :-)
>
> How was your vacation ;-)?Hey!
Yeah, I guess I'm back :).. to be honest, the past weeks/months have been really bad. I'm basically down to one last treatment option (I don't want ECT), and if that's not going to work.. I don't know what I'll do then :(.. but I'm not there yet, so I'll see how things will go.>
> And I love it...!Thanks!! :)
> OMG that is pretty priceless. You've got hutzpah. I don't think I could pull that off.Yeah, priceless is a good word I guess. :)
I spent some time reading on forums dealing with real drugs and addiction, in order to get some "inside" information on how opioid maintenance treatments (and opioid maintenance doctors) work, and then I made an appointment, and then I walked out with a script.. funny huh? It's so absurd how, as a patient with depression I am denied a moderately abusable drug (even in quantities that would never allow me to develop an addiction), but if I tell them I am taking much harder stuff on a regular basis, they'll happily give it to me. I do feel a little bad about this whole thing, because one of the criticisms leveled at opioid maintenance treatments is how they are often abused by patients/addicts. Technically, I too abused the possibility to get that kind of treatment, but I never diverted a single pill to the black market, and I had an indication for which scientific evidence of efficacy of buprenorphine exists (even if it is small).> Could a non-scheduled substance be seized? I hadn't gotten that far in
> thought.... I'd hate to lose the money. And knowing me, I'd have procrastinated ordering....Hm, if tianeptine isn't FDA-approved, then technically it could be seized I think. But the point is, I have seen letters from US customs addressed at people whose shipments of valium/bromazepam/etc. had been seized, and those letters were basically telling them "it's illegal, don't do it again". If they had unlimited resources maybe they'd take it more seriously, but a non-abusable antidepressant for which there is no black market is probably way at the bottom of their list of priorities.
>
> Thanks eurorep. I do have a little story from today. I called my gp, the one who is pushing the norco taper (reducing it has been very beneficial), and yet, not providing any plan for me other than meditation and Qi gong. I do have an order in hand from her own osteopath that I do need pain meds. Finally, after white-knuckling through days of not enough--like yesterday having to decide if I take my medication now, I won't last until afternoon. I called her up and told her I need to bump up back to a max of 20mg. She said, well the lesson I take from this is next time to taper more slowly. I paused and said the lesson I learned was not to taper past a certain comfort zone until I had a real replacement plan in place. Then she's asking if I need a scrip for the weekend, some patients do o.k. managing monthly doses on their own... It was an interesting shift.
>
> Any who, day three of emsam has been sweet. Really. Go figure. I think stablon is contraindicated for maoi's. But maybe I won't want it? I just don't know. But I am doing my research because I've experienced some doctors withholding treatment, others tossing stuff at me (I'm fairly med sensitive.)Ah ok, I wasn't aware you were using an emsam patch. In that case, tianeptine is indeed contraindicated. But if you're only on day 3, things may actually change for the better and you won't need tianeptine, that's what you mean right? That would be the best solution of course. Let's hope that'll happen!
> I like your spirit :D
>
> Good to hear from you.Thanks. Good to hear it's good to hear from me :)
Posted by mtdewcmu on May 7, 2011, at 8:11:33
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » europerep, posted by floatingbridge on May 6, 2011, at 20:23:13
>
> Could a non-scheduled substance be seized? I hadn't gotten that far in
> thought.... I'd hate to lose the money. And knowing me, I'd have procrastinated ordering....
>I imagine it could be seized, but any penalty would be minute. I doubt it would be criminal.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 7, 2011, at 17:55:22
In reply to Re: advice on overseas pharmacies.... » floatingbridge, posted by europerep on May 7, 2011, at 7:56:10
europerep, if you want to say more, I'm here.
> Yeah, I guess I'm back :).. to be honest, the past weeks/months have been really bad. I'm basically down to one last treatment option (I don't want ECT), and if that's not going to work.. I don't know what I'll do then :(.. but I'm not there yet, so I'll see how things will go.
>
A little worried and fingers crossed for you.fb
> > And I love it...!
>
> Thanks!! :)
>
> > OMG that is pretty priceless. You've got hutzpah. I don't think I could pull that off.
>
> Yeah, priceless is a good word I guess. :)
> I spent some time reading on forums dealing with real drugs and addiction, in order to get some "inside" information on how opioid maintenance treatments (and opioid maintenance doctors) work, and then I made an appointment, and then I walked out with a script.. funny huh? It's so absurd how, as a patient with depression I am denied a moderately abusable drug (even in quantities that would never allow me to develop an addiction), but if I tell them I am taking much harder stuff on a regular basis, they'll happily give it to me. I do feel a little bad about this whole thing, because one of the criticisms leveled at opioid maintenance treatments is how they are often abused by patients/addicts. Technically, I too abused the possibility to get that kind of treatment, but I never diverted a single pill to the black market, and I had an indication for which scientific evidence of efficacy of buprenorphine exists (even if it is small).
>
> > Could a non-scheduled substance be seized? I hadn't gotten that far in
> > thought.... I'd hate to lose the money. And knowing me, I'd have procrastinated ordering....
>
> Hm, if tianeptine isn't FDA-approved, then technically it could be seized I think. But the point is, I have seen letters from US customs addressed at people whose shipments of valium/bromazepam/etc. had been seized, and those letters were basically telling them "it's illegal, don't do it again". If they had unlimited resources maybe they'd take it more seriously, but a non-abusable antidepressant for which there is no black market is probably way at the bottom of their list of priorities.
>
> >
> > Thanks eurorep. I do have a little story from today. I called my gp, the one who is pushing the norco taper (reducing it has been very beneficial), and yet, not providing any plan for me other than meditation and Qi gong. I do have an order in hand from her own osteopath that I do need pain meds. Finally, after white-knuckling through days of not enough--like yesterday having to decide if I take my medication now, I won't last until afternoon. I called her up and told her I need to bump up back to a max of 20mg. She said, well the lesson I take from this is next time to taper more slowly. I paused and said the lesson I learned was not to taper past a certain comfort zone until I had a real replacement plan in place. Then she's asking if I need a scrip for the weekend, some patients do o.k. managing monthly doses on their own... It was an interesting shift.
> >
> > Any who, day three of emsam has been sweet. Really. Go figure. I think stablon is contraindicated for maoi's. But maybe I won't want it? I just don't know. But I am doing my research because I've experienced some doctors withholding treatment, others tossing stuff at me (I'm fairly med sensitive.)
>
> Ah ok, I wasn't aware you were using an emsam patch. In that case, tianeptine is indeed contraindicated. But if you're only on day 3, things may actually change for the better and you won't need tianeptine, that's what you mean right? That would be the best solution of course. Let's hope that'll happen!
>
> > I like your spirit :D
> >
> > Good to hear from you.
>
> Thanks. Good to hear it's good to hear from me :)
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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